Legends, Maps, Coincidences, Logic, and Hunches.

[EE THr]

Bookaroo;

Yes, I have had both my textual work and my imaging work stolen off the Website which I owned, and actually used for commercial purposes by others; and as anyone can imagine, I wasn't very happy about it. Usually a stiff warning got it taken down, except when the offending sites were in other countries.

I have even experienced people putting an HTML call to my images, which are on my host, from their commercial sites, so the image appeared to be on their sites! Of course the easy way to handle that is to simply change the filename of the real image, and put some other image on the server, with the original filename. You can then say, in the image, whatever you would like to say about them---on their own Website! That was kinda fun!

However, there is a difference between copyrighted works, and non-copyrightable contents of copyrighted works. And there is also work product value of non-copyrightable material. There are several classes of material which are non-copyrightable, even by the creator of those materials.

All-in-all, I don't believe any harm has been done, and most likely the original book authors benefited from the exposure of their names and works.

But I can certainly understand anyone being a bit touchy about the subject!

Thanks again for your input.

 

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[Old Bookaroo]

Howdy!

"Sometimes" means - well, sometimes. Please don't read any more into it than what it says.

I didn't write anything about copyright(s). That's not the point. The right thing to do is the right thing to do.

Anyone who wishes to do so may visit the site (or any other, for that matter) and draw her or his own conclusion(s).

I've drawn mine.

Good luck to all,

~The Old Bookaroo

 

[cactusjumper]

O.B.,

Are you only reading the documents and not things like this that appear at the top of the collections:
__________________________________________________________________

The Adolph Ruth Story
I am not providing any background on Adolph Ruth Story at this time since the initial viewing and usage will be for a very narrow audience. Most are familiar with the story.

The newspaper articles were copied from the Arizona State Archives, the Mesa Library and the Gregory Davis Collection. They were then transcribed. There are errors that have crept in during the transcription. Hopefully they are not major and the basic story has remained intact.

I have not tried to include the photos that appear with the newspaper articles because of the quality of the microfilm copies. In addition due to haste in the research and copying process portions of articles may have been cutoff or even missed. As always, the original source is certainly superior to transcriptions.

The articles posted are certainly just a small portion of the total number of articles that appeared in newspapers in that time frame. Gregory has collected newspaper articles from Washington D. C. To San Diego, California.

One document that is very important to the research surrounding the Ruth disappearance is a two part manuscript written by Erwin Ruth, Adolph's son. Erwin wrote Part I entitled "The Fervent Romances In Seithing Mexico". This appears to have been written before Adolph went missing in 1931. Part II of the manuscript is entitled is "The Story of the Mexican Gold Mine" and it was written shortly after he returned from Arizona in the summer of 1931 and before his father's body was found.These manuscripts are available from the Superstition Mountain Museum Gift Shop in Apache Junction, Arizona.

Another primary source for these documents is from the collection of Eleanor Ruth. Eleanor was the daughter of Erwin Ruth and the granddaughter of Adolph Ruth. She was contacted in 2008 and graciously donated the original collection of her father's papers to the Superstition Mountain Historical Society.

These documents are intended for both beginner and veteran LDM enthusiasts. If the reader is only somewhat familiar or still struggling with the Ruth story, it is hoped that these documents will aid them in developing their own theories and questions. For those who already know what happened these documents may only prove a nuisance.

________________________________________________

Without Garry and Paul doing some serious leg work, the Eleanor Ruth collection would never have seen the light of day.

Your efforts here are interesting but, IMHO, your contributions to the subject are non-existent compared to one day of Garry Cundiff's efforts. Beyond that, Garry always puts his real name on his work. That way people who are so inclined know exactly who they are calling a thief. On the other hand, Garry has no idea who is doing the unfounded/untrue name calling.

Makes me wonder who stepped on your tail.

Joe Ribaudo

 

[Old Bookaroo]

cactusjumper:

Anyone who reads my previous posts knows my name - it's Fred Hollister.

I'm not ashamed of it.

Nobody stepped on my tail. I have nothing against those folks. I do think that when people take a book, scan it, then post the scans on their website, the author and publisher of the book deserve recognition.

Intentions - good or bad - are a poor excuse for not doing that.

Here on the Forum is a request for "someone" to post an entire book - or a link to that book - published in a limited edition of 1,000 copies just a few years ago. The author has elected to let it go out of print. Isn't that his (or her) right? If someone wants to read that book, in my opinion that individual should go out and buy a copy.

Good luck to all,

~The Old Bookaroo

 

[EE THr]

Here on the Forum is a request for "someone" to post an entire book - or a link to that book - published in a limited edition of 1,000 copies just a few years ago. The author has elected to let it go out of print. Isn't that his (or her) right? If someone wants to read that book, in my opinion that individual should go out and buy a copy.

Straw Man Fallacy

 

[Old Bookaroo]

EE Thr:

See "Treasure Legends / Lost Dutchman's [sic] Mine / John Ramses found sombrero/Dutchman mine on Red Mountain" - first post.

The example stands.

Good luck to all,

~The Old Bookaroo

 

[Cubfan64]

OB - So that I'm clear, because one person asks on the forum for someone to post copies of a book that is no longer available, AND GETS NO RESPONSES (ie. nobody does what he asks), you then find someone who does go out of their way to give credit where it's due and propose to lecture everyone?

I'm positive there are many examples on TNet that would be a much more reasonable boat to rainse that sail than Garry's.

In the end, everyone is entitled to their opinion, so it doesn't make a whit of difference to me how you feel - it only gets in my craw a bit when you so grossly mischaracterize something.

These kinds of threads end up always going nowhere but downhill, so I'm going to bow out.

 

[Old Bookaroo]

Cubfan64:

I'll agree to disagree. I agree this has gone far enough - y'all aren't going to change your minds, and I feel the way I feel about it.

All I've ever done here is try to help people and have some fun. If you think that's a lecture, maybe you're in the wrong room.

When it stops being fun, I'm out.

Good luck to all,

~The Old Bookaroo

 

[EE THr]

Continuing from post #111---

The directions in the Chronicle article has the path as going over Fremont Saddle, past Weaver's Needle, and on up Boulder Canyon.

On the 13 Clueslink, on post #102, clue #11 has this---

"11). Start from the first natural stone face near the western end of the mountains. From the direction of approach over the desert you have to go up the first deep canyon from the western end of the range, climb northward over the backbone of the mountains until you come within sight of a huge, sombrero-shaped peak. Travel downward past the base of this La Sombrero into a long canyon running north until you find on the east side a tributary canyon which is very deep, pot-holed and densely wooded with scrub oak. Then turn about and go back southward up this tributary canyon until you reach a point where the outline on the horizon matches the outline upon the map. You go up a steep tributary arroyo which seems to run right into the shadows of overhanging cliffs, but instead ends finally in a miniature hidden valley. The gold shaft is in this valley."

If the tributary specified is La Barge, then the path might look something like this (the red spot being Weaver's Needle, AKA Sombrero Butte)---

 

[cactusjumper]

EE,

Perhaps you should give some thought to Hog Canyon or Hieroglypic Canyon being the proper starting point.

Adolph Ruth wanted to camp at Willow Spring and he may have had the best "inside" information of anyone. I believe his daughter may have worked for the government as a cartographer......I believe.
If you go back to Bicknell, who published the directions you are using, he also camped at Willow Spring and wrote a letter to the editor of a Phoenix newspaper from there.

I won't even mention the Stone Maps or the fact that Julia and Rhiney made their first attempt to enter the mountains from Hog Canyon.......Oops, I just did.

Take care,

Joe

 

[EE THr]

CJ---

That's a good idea. Where's Hog canyon?

 

[cactusjumper]

EE,

Hog Canyon is around 1.37 Mi. N/W of Hieroglyphic Canyon or 1.24 Mi. S/E of Monument Canyon.

Take care,

Joe

 

[EE THr]

CJ---

You got a map?







P.S. Your avatar went AWOL.

 

[cactusjumper]

EE,

Absolutely.......Don't you?

Last time I tried to change it.......No workie!

This is from an ATV camping trip to look for the Bully Bueno Mine. We found it.

Joe

 

[EE THr]

EE,

Absolutely.......Don't you?

Last time I tried to change it.......No workie!

This is from a ATV camping trip to look for the Bully Bueno Mine. We found it.

Joe

Nice one on the re-discovery. Congratulations!


No, I don't have maps for the Supers. This hobby is Internet-only for me.

One problem is, like Tom Kollenborn has said, that the names change over the many years, sometimes there have been several name changes. So I would have to not only send for maps, but spend time trying to find out which makers and years use which names.

I'd rather analyse the published LDM maps, and limit it to that, which allows for more focus on those. It seems like nobody has done that yet, at least not for public consumption. And it's interesting.

 

[cactusjumper]

EE,

Hog Canyon is listed on todays topographic maps, and you can enter it in your search engine and find plenty of information.

In reading the Bark Notes, Jim Bark found Julia and Rhiney camped with a wagon at the entrance to a canyon......unnamed, I believe around 6-miles from the ranch house. Don't quote me on how accurate that description is, but it'e very close.

Bottom line is that many years ago I figured out that it had to be Hog Canyon. The Bicknell directions do not include the name of the canyon. With either canyon (Hieroglyphic as the other) being the canyon that was referred to, you end up in West Boulder and Willow Spring........right where Bicknell and Adolph Ruth both camped.

Probably just a coincidence.

Take care,

Joe

 

[EE THr]

CJ---

Very interesting. It sounds closer to Weaver's Needle, too.

I'll have to check it out.

Thanks!

 

[cactusjumper]

CJ---

Very interesting. It sounds closer to Weaver's Needle, too.

I'll have to check it out.

Thanks!

Yes the trail takes you very close to the Needle. Willow Spring is in West Boulder just below and to the left of this saddle:

Joe Ribaudo

 

[EE THr]

CJ---

Is that Hog Canyon on the left of Carney Spring?

Man, that looks really steep, compared to the other.





Peralta Canyon looks much easier, and if the route is to go Northward, then turn back south, then the Fremont Saddle route would take you to wherever it is supposed to be, that you're to turn and go back to.

In view of this, I can't figure why Waltz would use the Hog Canyon area as an entrance point for Julia, can you?

Or, if Waltz found the mine from the Peralta's instructions or map, as the Chronicle story goes, I have to wonder why they would instruct Waltz to go-in that way, for the same reason as above?

 

[Cubfan64]

EE - no, that isn't Hog Canyon - you're too far east along the main mountain.

Follow the main mountain to the west from the spot you posted until you find Heiroglyphic Canyon which should be labelled really well. Then continue west to the next main canyon which heads N/NE and then almost directly east. If you see Monument Canyon, you've gone too far.

Check out this link for good topo maps of the Superstitions - Hog Canyon is located in the Goldfield section.

http://superstition-sar.org/maps.htm