Legend of the Stone Maps

somehiker said:
Personally, I look forward to reading more about Pegleg and his history as a treasure hunter. That his descendants did follow in his footsteps as "Coronado's Children", and still do, IS revealing and I think most of us will enjoy hearing their stories as well. Garman had a waybill, possibly related to his own version of the Peralta Tesoro Mappa. Perhaps the original of that one was also part of Pegleg's collection.
The stone maps could have been a huge asset to the Tumlinsons, worth a great deal of money if the proposed book and a popular movie had brought them to the forefront of public attention. I once said that IF a large cache of long-sought artifacts and other "treasure" was found by someone using these stones, the original stones in themselves would be worth a small fortune to whoever possessed them. But multiple "treasure maps" carved by a modern day treasure hunter just doesn't have the same appeal IMO, as there would have been if authentic originals HAD been found, more or less as legend said.

Regards:SH.
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Pegleg is the person of interest. Where did the leather "ground map" originate? Did Pegleg find it, buy it, steal it or make it himself? If it is "genuine", did Pegleg spend time himself in the Superstitions? If so, what were his results? If he didn't search himself, why not - because the map is not genuine?

Was Travis and the Tumlinson family naive about the veracity of the ground map? Did Travis spend lots of time looking in the Superstions using the ground map, only to come up empty? What possible reason would Travis have for carving the stones, other than as props to go along with his treasure manuscript-book-movie idea? Was he frustrated with the ground map and tried to salvage the effort with the stone maps and book? Did he manufacture clues in the mountains?

Lots of unanswered questions. Travis isn't the ultimate source of this dog and pony show. Pegleg is.
 

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Backwoodsbob said:
Hal,you are right about some of us. I have never been to supers.and being totally disabled will never walk in the shoes of those who have. We do thank those who have. With some of the stories and insight of being there.Yes all of you are talking about history. But we all know that the story can change. History is proven wrong all the time. With new technology we are able to see things a little better. A new set of eyes sometimes is all that's needed. Keep your minds open and the answers will come. The bickering just causes animosity among each other. As the good book says anger begets anger and so on. The answer is out there. Enough of my rambling. Carry on gentlemen.
Bob

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Well said Backwoodsbob. But, sometimes unchecked egos have a tendency to run wild. Follow the trail back, to the source of the bickering. It's almost always the same characters and the only way to keep things level is to lift up their skirts, for an honest peak.

I would much rather debate ideas and theories. After all, that's all we really have. Seems a tall order sometimes, which is unfortunate.
 

Ya got it Backwoods. I, personally, prob will never set foot in / or on the supers, but I still like it's challange. So I put in my 2 cents every so often, whether right or wrong doesn't really matter, since there is no right or wrong in the case of the Dutchman. It hasn't been found yet, and until it is, any theory is possible.
 

Hal Croves said:
We are writing about history here. Some of us are fortunate enough to have spent time in the Superstitions and can share that experience in words and pictures. Not every one has had that privilege, in fact, I think that you would agree that most members reading this thread have never set foot in the range. If that were a prerequisite for participation well, it would be a very limited conversation I think you would agree.

I don't remember questioning you about your experiences in the Superstitions. In fact, I have for the most part always considered you a fairly honest person but, I certainly don't agree with many of your vacillating ideas or your exclusive good-old-boy club mentality. I never have. Exclusivity is the furthest thing from humility in my opinion and using it to marginalize other members is nothing less than pathetic. But, that's just this newbies opinion.

I know quite a bit about your club. Jim, before he passed, made sure of it. Over the past four or five years, other members and non-members have expanded on that insight. Since I consider myself a gentleman, I have never shared those insights publicly. Doing so would only lead to public embarrassment and anger. I have no desire to embarrass anyone. Except for those who feel the almost constant need to attack and embarrass other members for their thoughts and ideas. Dave would be the perfect example. From what I can tell, the man is full of anger and contempt for anyone who falls outside of his particular demographic. Based strictly on his posts, that would include minorities, homosexuals, and those who vote a ticket other than his own. I hope that you don't feel the same way Joe. Those ideas are archaic and ignorant and against the teachings of most faiths.

One of Dave's close friends sent me a PM, chastising me for "driving poor Dave from the site". Now word has reached me that two other member have gone and point to me as being the reason. I can't tell you how surprising that is. Knowing that I have that level of influence on those I don't respect, feels terrific I am embarrassed to say.

My invitation to climb the Finger of God was a sincere one. I was hoping that I could follow in Dave's footsteps right to the top but, from what I can tell, after so many years in the range, his footsteps don't go there. Who knows, perhaps at on time they did. Hard to tell.

I think that I will stop here. I have a dance to get ready for and I want to look my best.
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Hal,

Quite the rant there. Don't believe I ever said anything about any "prerequisite" for.....anything. Since you mentioned Jim and his warnings about a club, I now see where your animosity comes from. By all means ignore folks with experience. You can start by ignoring me, as that is what I will do with you.

Joe Ribaudo
 

As far as stone maps go.I'm going to put my time in on this kind. They are original
bf027d44b0968dbb94b99949178660a3.jpg
d277108b307a378841cb7f7d27ec961d.jpg
If the sites are suppose to be the same layouts they would work there as well

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sdcfia said:
Pegleg is the person of interest. Where did the leather "ground map" originate? Did Pegleg find it, buy it, steal it or make it himself? If it is "genuine", did Pegleg spend time himself in the Superstitions? If so, what were his results? If he didn't search himself, why not - because the map is not genuine?

Was Travis and the Tumlinson family naive about the veracity of the ground map? Did Travis spend lots of time looking in the Superstions using the ground map, only to come up empty? What possible reason would Travis have for carving the stones, other than as props to go along with his treasure manuscript-book-movie idea? Was he frustrated with the ground map and tried to salvage the effort with the stone maps and book? Did he manufacture clues in the mountains?

Lots of unanswered questions. Travis isn't the ultimate source of this dog and pony show. Pegleg is.
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You hit the nail on the head. But, I would encourage you to expand that circle. Remember, John Jackson Tumlinson rode with some very interesting people during the war of 1861-65. His father before him, and his father's brothers had plenty of contact with Mexican advisories in the mid 1800's. Any number of opportunities to procure an old Mexican map there. And the fact that Bell Tumlinson, a cousin of Travis, arrived in Phoenix as early as 1917ish, and then filed claims in the mid 30's is something that shouldn't be ignored.

Travis is an interesting man no doubt. But, the other members of his extended family are far more interesting and left their mark on history in ways that are far more important. I think that a handful of southern men understood what the Mexicans were doing in the Superstitions. And perhaps the Spanish before them. Southern Arizona, its population, for the most part were sympathetic to the southern cause. Arizona's potential mineral wealth was well known to them.
 

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End the insults...
 

cactusjumper said:
Hal,

Quite the rant there. Don't believe I ever said anything about any "prerequisite" for.....anything. Since you mentioned Jim and his warnings about a club, I now see where your animosity comes from. By all means ignore folks with experience. You can start by ignoring me, as that is what I will do with you.

Joe Ribaudo
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Animosity? I think that you have it all wrong my friend.
Seems like I touched a nerve this morning.
I guess some wounds never heal.

People with experience? I know many of them now. The ones that I respect are humble, honest, and full of encouragement. The others, the blow-heart hypocrites, well, I can simply purchase a good map and a few books on navigating the range.

Best of luck to you Joe and good health.
 

5d02c2e9a1b059ac0ad487bb17034dd3.jpg

Gentlemen I believe you are putting your faith in the wrong stone. As I said earlier about sites being laid out the same. The kings orders that is. The two stone are from two different places. But they say the same thing. If you look at them close you will see what I mean. The one on the left came from south Alabama. The one on the right came from my son's back yard in Santa Clarita,California. I was texting a theory. I believe you limiting yourselves. I'mJust trying to help y'all as we say here. Bob

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Hal Croves said:
You hit the nail on the head. But, I would encourage you to expand that circle. Remember, John Jackson Tumlinson rode with some very interesting people during the war of 1861-65. His father before him, and his father's brothers had plenty of contact with Mexican advisories in the mid 1800's. Any number of opportunities to procure an old Mexican map there. And the fact that Bell Tumlinson, a cousin of Travis, arrived in Phoenix as early as 1917ish, and then filed claims in the mid 30's is something that shouldn't be ignored.

Travis is an interesting man no doubt. But, the other members of the his extended family are far more interesting and left their mark on history in ways that are far more important. I think that a handful of southern men understood what the Mexicans were doing in the Superstitions. And perhaps the Spanish before them. Southern Arizona, its population, for the most part were sympathetic to the southern cause. Arizona's potential mineral wealth was well known to them.
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You're now entering waters that few on this forum category will be willing to attempt to navigate.

 

Hal Croves said:
Wow, at least one a year? Lets see, that's what, a minimum of 50 deaths from falling off the Needle since 1964. Let me check with the SSR and Forest Service on that statement. Hopefully, you are just misinformed. It happens.

I'll post their response when it comes.
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Tonto Forest Office telephone response. Today @ 1:45 EST

"In the past eight years that I have worked here, I am unaware of anyone falling from the Needle but, let me switch you to someone in the field."
Left a message.
 

Hal Croves said:
Tonto Forest Office telephone response. Today @ 1:45 EST

"In the past eight years that I have worked here, I am unaware of anyone falling from the Needle but, let me switch you to someone in the field."
Left a message.
Click to expand...

hal..i told you ..i'm ignoring you...but on second thought..maybe you should come out and climb weavers needle
 

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