Thanks Boattow for quoting Ron's post from 2003. Here is the entire message:

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Re: KGC on state lines
February 17, 2003 at 14:41:45
In Reply to: Re: KGC IN CALIFORNIA
posted by Richard on February 17, 2003 at 13:21:16



"Richard,

You have part of the equation correct when you say that the KGC like to put down caches on state lines. You just haven't gone far enough. The KGC used several different "lines" when placing caches in the ground and sometimes the only thing you had was one or two clues that indicate what line and where to begin. The "line" caches were originally designed to be worked using a transparent overlay onto a regular county/topographical map of the time. The small number of clues were just there to tell you that you are in the right spot and to indicate where the overlay should be used.

The KGC operated into the 1900s (approximately 1916), continually putting caches in the ground until that time. They also came back and moved some caches to other spots within the originall areas the cahce was located in, changing the clues/carvings along the way. When this was done they also changed the type of code at the site so that someone following the original clues would not/could not read the second code, therefore making it extremely difficult to locate the cache.

They were very tricky in how they placed their caches, using several hidden reverses along the way, decoys and a mixture of code. They knew the geology and geography of the area where the cache was placed and in some instances used engineers to place the caches. This was not a group of lazy men nor were they stupid.

Good luck in your hunting! "



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Re: I like creative ingenuity with caches Richard - 19:07:14 2/17/2003 (0)

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I think this expose is hilarious considering that "Alec" has been so vehement in his opposition to everything that he stated in this post just a few years ago! :coffee2: Now the big question is, well, I suppose you all can figure that out.
~Texas Jay
 

You guys must really like to beat a dead horse. First you continue to believe in the KGC mega depository myths and now you are trying to make it sound like I still believe in something that I have said over and over again that I do not believe in any more.

I have never tried to hide the fact that I too was once fooled by the stories that you so frequently quote. The only difference between me and you is the fact that I know how to do research and draw conclusions based on the actual facts and not the information I pick and choose to believe in so that it will match some fantasy theory.

As with your belief in the KGC treasure myths, you are now wasting time bringing up quotes that have no relevance. Everyone makes mistakes, some of us are willing to accept that we were wrong and say so. Others like yourselves don't seem to be able to do that. Keep beating those dead horses guys, you apparently need the exercise.
 

Alec, you say:

"I know how to do research and draw conclusions based on the actual facts and not the information I pick and choose to believe in so that it will match some fantasy theory."

I'm still waiting for you to document some of the sources of information you gathered in your research that caused you to so radically change your steadfast beliefs stated in 2003. Not just your opinions, I want the facts as you found them. In other words, what caused you to see the light? :sign13:

~Texas Jay
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bloodybillandersonmystery
 

What caused me to see the light is that there are no facts concerning the KGC mega depositories. Anywhere! Lots of info about the KGC itself but absolutely nothing about treasures, except of course the information from Orvus Howk which is continually rehashed by all of the supposed KGC experts. Over and Over and over.........

You can't document what's not there. The information you use as "documented proof" all comes from the same original source which is Howk. Howk was a liar and conman. I have said this several times before also, there is no information that even alludes to the KGC having any large amounts of money or hiding any large treasures except for the info from Howk. If you study the KGC you will find very quickly that they weren't the secrect organization everyone likes to say they were and they did not have the organizational skills or the logistical support to pull off even 1/4 of what they are supposed to have done. They didn't even have the kind of money it would take to spend making these depositories much less putting any money in them.

None of this KGC depository nonsense even existed until Dalton and Howk showed up. Neither man was who or what they said they were. If these things really existed don't you think there would have been something prior to 1950 coming out about the treasures or talking about the group or the areas they were hiring help or bringing in workers, etc.? It's not like the KGC was some big secret back then. Everybody knew they existed and what they were trying to do and they couldn't even collect enough money to continue as a group much less put anything in the ground like the alleged tons of gold and silver that is talked about. All of the other Civil War information was available and coming out as it was happening in the 1800's.

All of the rumors about the South's money and where it went and who made have gotten it all came out in the 1800's. Why would the KGC be immune from any of this? They weren't a secret group, they had no money, they couldn't handle the task of making these depositories even if they could afford to do so because they didn't have the man power or money to do so.

To borrow from yammy, extrordinary claims require extra ordinary proof. None of which you or anybody else has because it doesn't exist, pure and simple.

You and boattow seem to spend more time trying to bait people into an argument than you do searching for the truth.
 

Your credibility, Alec, is nil. What ever happened to SWR? I wanted to wish him a Merry Christmas. :tongue3:
~Texas Jay
 

alec said:
First you continue to believe in the KGC mega depository myths and now you are trying to make it sound like I still believe in something that I have said over and over again that I do not believe in any more.

;D I know Alec, I was just messing with you. I know you believed one way and then switched sides. But I had to poke a little fun :wink:

I guess the question is what is your idea of a mega depository? In other words, do I believe there are depositories that are composed of levels that you could drive a horse and wagon through? I don't know but find it hard to believe. So if this is your idea of a mega depository I can certainly understand your reluctance to believe they exist. I've never seen one. However maybe your idea of a mega depository is a vault 50 feet deep in the ground. If so, and you don't believe they exist, then you haven't looked hard enough! I'm not going to rule it out because I think I've read enough published information to believe they didn't have the money to do it. I didn't come to my conclusions based on book reading, hearsay, newspaper articles, or suppositions based on these things, I'm basing them on facts in the field.

I don't care what you believe. What I do care about is that you get on forums and say, as though beyond a shadow of a doubt or absolute fact, that these are KGC myths, when you can't possibly know that. You may believe it. You just can't KNOW it! To me, that's just not right.

Texas Jay,
Yammie elf, SWR, Jim, are all one in the same.

Boattow
 

"Texas Jay,
Yammie elf, SWR, Jim, are all one in the same.

Boattow"

Thanks, Boattow, for explaining this to me. They like to disguise their identities like some other naysayers I know. We call that bunch the Smokescreen Gang.
~Texas Jay
 

You don't have me confused, "Yammy", and never have. Want proof? Google "Smokescreen Gang" and read all about it. :thumbsup:
~Texas Jay
 

I don't care what you believe. What I do care about is that you get on forums and say, as though beyond a shadow of a doubt or absolute fact, that these are KGC myths, when you can't possibly know that. You may believe it. You just can't KNOW it! To me, that's just not right.

Boattow, you are correct, I can't possibly be 100% sure that the KGC didn't plant money in the ground in some vault 20-30-40-50 feet underground. I'm not going to hold my breath that they exist and I will say that when I do say I don't believe in these vaults, I say why. Poeple reading can then make up their own minds as to what to believe.

You seem to have a problem with me coming onto a forum and saying that these are KGC myths without being 100% sure of that information but it doesn't bother you when you or Texas Jay says without a doubt that the depositories/vaults do exist when you have no proof that they do. You can't possibly be 100% sure they do exist. This would seem to be the same thing but you only don't like it when the opinion is opposite of yours. How do you justify doing the same thing I'm doing but having a problem with it when I do it and not you?

Opinion is opinion no matter who it comes from. I at least give reasons for my opinions when I post them.
 

Alec, maybe it is because I know the location of at least one KGC depository so I am 100% sure about my facts when I post about KGC depositories existing. I've done extensive field work on three locations so far but don't expect me to "prove" it to you because I am on to your game. It's called Fishing for Information. You should be familiar with it from your occupation.
~Texas Jay
 

It would seem that the main source for KGC information today would be Hillbilly Bob and according to his book his information comes from "the Black Book", or Orvus Lee Howk to be exact. Houk was nothing more than a conman.

Treasures can be found in crevice burials, 16 inches deep, caves, mine shafts, 50 feet deep, etc., but without some kind of documentation you just can't prove they are KGC. Just because there are turkey tracks or bent trees does't prove a thing. I have been on many sites with turkey tracks, hearts, etc and can't say they were anything more than outlaw/Spanish sites.

I'm just offering a different opinion and since this is an open forum I'm free to do so. I think it's a good thing to have to defend what you believe in. As of this date I haven't found anything posted that will change my mind. If you guys say you found a KGC site then good for you. I personally think that if I found one, and could prove it, I'd make it public to the world, so that us naysayers would have to eat some crow. The publicity, book deals, and interviews alone would make you rich.
 

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alec said:
but it doesn't bother you when you or Texas Jay says without a doubt that the depositories/vaults do exist when you have no proof that they do.


I can't speak for Texas Jay. I don't know him or know what he knows.

alec said:
You can't possibly be 100% sure they do exist.


How can you make such a statement?! You are making a bad assumption. You are confusing OPINION with FACT. You can't know for a fact that they don't exist. I can know for a fact that they do.
Boattow
 

Texas Jay said:
Alec, maybe it is because I know the location of at least one KGC depository so I am 100% sure about my facts when I post about KGC depositories existing. I've done extensive field work on three locations so far but don't expect me to "prove" it to you because I am on to your game. It's called Fishing for Information. You should be familiar with it from your occupation.
~Texas Jay

No who's credibility is "nil"??


Boattow, facts are only facts when they can be proven as such. I'm not making any bad assumptions. No one has ever offered up any "facts" proving that anything they have found or supposedly know where is located is KGC. Unless it has documents from the KGC with it or it was found using actual documents that can be proven to be from the KGC then no one can prove what they have found is KGC. Using a template to walk around and dig up trash that almost fits the spot it "should" be in is not proof that the KGC did anything. You may have found a treasure but that doesn't mean it was left by the KGC. Of course, Texas Jay knows where one is but I guess he doesn't want to recover it.

There's another one of those statements that should bother you but apparently doesn't.
 

This is for Texas Jay and Boattow. These are the same maps that Pastore was flipping through on the tv show. Bogus KGC maps from Houk.
 

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What it boils down to is that nobody has found anything KGC, meaning the vaults and depositories that are talked about, or any real information that indicates they even exist, so it is very unlikely, even very probable that they do not exist.
 

Alec, how did your latest trip to Wapanucka turn out? Sure seems to be a lot of treasure there for it to only be an outlaw "road cache". Where did you originally get the information that you needed to search there?

"Texas Jay knows where one is but I guess he doesn't want to recover it." - Alec

I don't recall ever saying whether or not I have recovered anything at that site. If I did or when I do, you will not see it posted on here. I have no interest in book deals, tv shows, or publicity regarding my treasure finds. If I did, no doubt, you'd be racing Pastore down to central Texas to try to get your share of the "outlaw money". ha.
~Texas Jay
 

Texas Jay, I don't believe I ever said you did recover a treasure. I was refering to your quote where you said you "know the location of at least one KGC depository". Just like Brewer, you "know" where it is but you won't recover it. Must be the curse of the KGC! :laughing7:

My "last trip" to Wapanucka was my first trip. I was there at the request of a friend and I will not discuss that site because of confidentiality. You don't know anything about that particular site or apparently any outlaw sites or you wouldn't have to ask your question.

You keep looking for those depositories.
 

You don't know what I know or who I know, Ron. But I do know people who know a lot more about Wapanucka than you do. They all know the treasure there is KGC. Once again, you jump to silly assumptions when you know nothing about my work. Why do all of your "outlaw sites" seem to be sites that were discovered by KGC hunters years ago? Why don't you get a little creative and adventurous and actually discover your own sites? Oh yeah, did any of your outlaws ride 3-legged horses? Fishing for Information. :icon_thumright:
~Texas Jay
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bloodybillandersonmystery
 

Sorry to burst your bubble there Jay but if you have never been on the site then you don't know what you need to know. The things written about the site in the books you apparently hold as gospel aren't correct. Therefore you are just guessing based on your own assumptions determined by your own perception of things.

Since I have only been on the site once I am sure there are people more familiar with the site but whether or not they know more than I do about the signs is up for debate.

Not all of the sites I have been to were discovered by KGC hunters years ago as you say. Only two of the sites that I know of have been called KGC sites and that's only by people not smart enough to know any better. If you are relying on information from Brewer or Pastore as being definitive proof of a KGC site then you need to rethink your research.

The question you should be asking is why is it all of these supposed KGC sites you talk about have outlaw signs on them? This would lead a logical person to believe the outlaws were there, not the KGC since there aren't any KGC signs on the sites.
 

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