Just Another Clues Thread

[PotBelly Jim]

I'll try to contact someone tomorrow. A lot of the old cemeteries around here are just maintained by the township, and some don't have those kind of records unless the local historical society takes it on.

 

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[Hal Croves]

I'll try to contact someone tomorrow. A lot of the old cemeteries around here are just maintained by the township, and some don't have those kind of records unless the local historical society takes it on.

Try Craig and Terry.
They should know if any records survive.

Division of Cemeteries and Parks

If it’s just a head stone, it may have been paid for by a fraternal group as opposed to family.

 

[Oroblanco]

Wrmickel1 wrote

And match it with What Oro. I know it should be matched with the gold in the other boxes, That will never happen till the box changes hands. But please tell me why Gollum posted Rose Quarts and Why did the box only became Authentic after Clay became the owner.

wrmickel1 I’m anticipating your your denial response

Why would you care what I might say? I only proposed that a scientific comparison of gold ore to the matchbox as the best way to settle the question when we have SO many different people who claim they found the LDM. The last time I tried to count it was over 200 different people all claiming they found the LDM and in over 200 different places, and you can count on one hand the guys that had any gold to show at all. Most of them never have ANY gold of ANY kind to show anyway so there couldn't be any kind of ore comparison done. There are quite a few guys here that think the ore comparison wouldn't prove anything either. So just do what you like, but if you want me to believe that YOU found the LDM, I want to see that ore comparison with a match. On the other hand, if you found a rich gold mine, does it really matter what name we call it?

 

[azdave35]

Wrmickel1 wrote


Why would you care what I might say? I only proposed that a scientific comparison of gold ore to the matchbox as the best way to settle the question when we have SO many different people who claim they found the LDM. The last time I tried to count it was over 200 different people all claiming they found the LDM and in over 200 different places, and you can count on one hand the guys that had any gold to show at all. Most of them never have ANY gold of ANY kind to show anyway so there couldn't be any kind of ore comparison done. There are quite a few guys here that think the ore comparison wouldn't prove anything either. So just do what you like, but if you want me to believe that YOU found the LDM, I want to see that ore comparison with a match. On the other hand, if you found a rich gold mine, does it really matter what name we call it?

exactly roy... the LDM is the king of lost mines and if someone claims to have found the ldm they better be ready to show the gold..and i mean in situ...if not they better be ready for a bunch of ridicule

 

[wrmickel1]

Wrmickel1 wrote


Why would you care what I might say? I only proposed that a scientific comparison of gold ore to the matchbox as the best way to settle the question when we have SO many different people who claim they found the LDM. The last time I tried to count it was over 200 different people all claiming they found the LDM and in over 200 different places, and you can count on one hand the guys that had any gold to show at all. Most of them never have ANY gold of ANY kind to show anyway so there couldn't be any kind of ore comparison done. There are quite a few guys here that think the ore comparison wouldn't prove anything either. So just do what you like, but if you want me to believe that YOU found the LDM, I want to see that ore comparison with a match. On the other hand, if you found a rich gold mine, does it really matter what name we call it?

Well I always care what you say, All of you on Treasure Net!
Just because I’m hard on a lot of things being posted doesn’t mean I’m Heartless!
But I never said I found the Dutchman’s Mine I never looked for it. Now I have looked for the Ruth Map and posted it. I all so looked for the Squaw Map and can take you to the Very spot it was drawn at. But for the Most part I look to solve the Peralta Stones, and there almost Solved just can’t find the mine that goes with the Priest I posted.

But in the end you can’t solve the Stone’s without solving the real story to them.

Remove the dung beetles one might say.

Your post have always seemed good to me, It’s your closed mind that goes astray.

Joe, Gollum and me all seem to believe Rose Quarts, All early reports of the ledgen said Rose!

White Quarts came into the picture with the Manuscript Matchbox and affidavit.

wrmickel1

 

[nobodie]

I vote rose.

 

[Hal Croves]

Wrmickel1 wrote


Why would you care what I might say? I only proposed that a scientific comparison of gold ore to the matchbox as the best way to settle the question when we have SO many different people who claim they found the LDM. The last time I tried to count it was over 200 different people all claiming they found the LDM and in over 200 different places, and you can count on one hand the guys that had any gold to show at all. Most of them never have ANY gold of ANY kind to show anyway so there couldn't be any kind of ore comparison done. There are quite a few guys here that think the ore comparison wouldn't prove anything either. So just do what you like, but if you want me to believe that YOU found the LDM, I want to see that ore comparison with a match. On the other hand, if you found a rich gold mine, does it really matter what name we call it?

Oh, to be among the lucky 200.
: (
Does anyone know if Tonto offficials have a contingency plan for finding lost treasure (cashe/mine)?

 

[somehiker]

Oh, to be among the lucky 200.
: (
Does anyone know if Tonto offficials have a contingency plan for finding lost treasure (cashe/mine)?

1) Submit Resignation letter(s)
2) Buy a old, played out mine outside of the SWA/TNF
3) Strike it rich

 

[somehiker]

If you're thinking they might be planning to have a look after the fire is out Hal, I doub't it would be easier to find.
A blanket of ash, once rained on, becomes a layer of grey mud. Same in every direction, like a layer of fresh paint.
Makes a great fertilizer for new growth and traps moisture below the surface as well. The monsoon rains will wash some into the creeks and Salt River, but a lot of the mud will fill many pockets and cracks in the rocky slopes, especially in the rougher areas. After that happens, it would have to be dumb luck to spot and recognize anything that size.

 

[Hal Croves]

1) Submit Resignation letter(s)
2) Buy a old, played out mine outside of the SWA/TNF
3) Strike it rich

Those are your plans.
I am wondering if Tonto Officials have a plan.

Not having much luck getting an answer from them.

 

[somehiker]

Those are your plans.
I am wondering if Tonto Officials have a plan.

Not having much luck getting an answer from them.

Nah , just a tongue in cheek scenario for any TNF personnel who might stumble on a rich old goldmine while on patrol out there after the fire is out.

Other than knocking a few pieces loose if I ever find 'IT", and taking a bunch of pictures to do a show and tell with someday, I have no interest in swinging a pick. Or even in owning a mine and letting someone else do that part. I'm too old and comfortable enough now for dreams like that....or the complications, legal and otherwise.

What kind of "plan" are YOU wondering about ?
A plan for what ?

 

[markmar]

If someone is searching for lost mines or for new gold outcrops, is necesarry to knows about geology and how the melted metals of an activ volcanos are deposited in regards to the geologic faults after the volcanos cool down ? I believe yes.
And the Peraltas who worked some gold mines in the Superstitions, were well aware of this.

Their first goal was to find a gold outcrop by panning all the way from the Salt River and after that to make a plan of where to look in regards to the fault lines which went along or near by that outcrop.
They did all the panning and first found the gold outcrop which represents the black dot/circle from the " Cuenta del Oro " map ( marked with a black dot in circle on the green line of my sketch ). This outcrop/mine we know it today as Haywood, Polka, Gonzalez, etc. and was the favorite because its place , hidden but easy to approach, and was also depicted in Salazar's survey.

Once they were at this outcrop, went to a high spot, and recognized how this outcrop was beside and almost in the middle of a fault line, which this line joined another two fault lines at their corners, forming a triangle which one of its corner was rectangle.
And here enter the knowledge. They knew how there would be another outcrops and they knew where to look along these fault lines. And where they were looking for that outcrops? No more than 300 yards exterior from that triangle and along those fault lines.
With this method they were able to find at least five more outcrops,which one of them was the LDM. Was the LDM fist found by the Peraltas or just they have stumbled upon it as an already mine while were on the application of their mining plan?

Below I post a sketch with the fault lines and how the mines are disposed in comparison to them. The LDM is under the blue line.

 

[markmar]

Barry Storm included it in his first book Trail of the Lost Dutchman, page 49 is the start though there is a map mentioning them on an earlier page. It also appeared in a newspaper article dating to 1878, unfortunately I don't have it handy, basically the identical tale (Ludi, Peralta, SILVER mine with pockets of gold etc).

The Peralta silver mine with pochets of gold is a real mine. Is what Edgar Cayce named it as " the mine in the lost ship " ( not " sheep " like was wrong written by the audience, and I will show you why ). Edgar said then how this was the richest mine in Arizona. If you look at the triangle above, is the mine at the junction of the red and blue lines.

I post two GE images, the one shows the ship's shape and where the mine is located, and the second shows the mine like is today.

View attachment 1725706 View attachment 1725707

 

[Oroblanco]

Wrmickel1 - you are certainly welcome to call it "rose quartz" and hunt for rose quartz gold ore all you wish. I just simply disagree.

This is gold in ROSE quartz, from Australia




borrowed from https://www.goldnuggetsales.com/images/QAU6A.jpg under Fair Use provision of Copyright law

The only images we have of what is most widely accepted to be gold ore from the mine of Jacob Waltz is the famous match box. Take another look:


Sorry I can't remember where I found this but it was posted here on T-net somewhere earlier. Apologies to photo owner.



PS By the way it's spelled "legend" but there are no extra points for spelling.

 

[azdave35]

Wrmickel1 - you are certainly welcome to call it "rose quartz" and hunt for rose quartz gold ore all you wish. I just simply disagree.

This is gold in ROSE quartz, from Australia


View attachment 1725727

borrowed from https://www.goldnuggetsales.com/images/QAU6A.jpg under Fair Use provision of Copyright law

The only images we have of what is most widely accepted to be gold ore from the mine of Jacob Waltz is the famous match box. Take another look:
View attachment 1725728

Sorry I can't remember where I found this but it was posted here on T-net somewhere earlier. Apologies to photo owner.



PS By the way it's spelled "legend" but there are no extra points for spelling.

i've seen alot of gold in quartz from arizona and never once have i seen gold in rose quartz...15 or 20 years ago there was a local guy around here that was metal detecting on the south end of the supers...he ran across some rose quartz on a hillside and headed up on top of the hill..there he found a big deposit of rose quartz...he ran his minelab all over the top and found nothing...on the way down toward the bottom of the hill he got a signal...it was a nice piece of gold in quartz....he found a total of 4 ounces that day....guess what color the quartz was?...white...so even among a huge deposit of rose quartz ...the only gold he found was in white quartz...same color as dutchman ore...and yes roy...our friend mick could use a spelling lesson

 

[wrmickel1]

i've seen alot of gold in quartz from arizona and never once have i seen gold in rose quartz...15 or 20 years ago there was a local guy around here that was metal detecting on the south end of the supers...he ran across some rose quartz on a hillside and headed up on top of the hill..there he found a big deposit of rose quartz...he ran his minelab all over the top and found nothing...on the way down toward the bottom of the hill he got a signal...it was a nice piece of gold in quartz....he found a total of 4 ounces that day....guess what color the quartz was?...white...so even among a huge deposit of rose quartz ...the only gold he found was in white quartz...same color as dutchman ore...and yes roy...our friend mick could use a spelling lesson

Well Dave

Widely Accepted is not a fact, and only was accepted after exchange of money, Manuscript, Affidavit now that is a fact, Dave. You have no agreement on that. But the Stone Maps are alittle different they don’t have a known Start. Lots of confusion around them. Maybe Dr. Glover’s book will help it get straight. Or He pandered to the establishment not to hurt no one’s feelings. Then I’ll just consider it FICTION like the rest.

The Ledgen lives on!

wrmickel1

 

[PotBelly Jim]

Well Dave

Widely Accepted is not a fact, and only was accepted after exchange of money, Manuscript, Affidavit now that is a fact, Dave. You have no agreement on that. But the Stone Maps are alittle different they don’t have a known Start. Lots of confusion around them. Maybe Dr. Glover’s book will help it get straight. Or He pandered to the establishment not to hurt no one’s feelings. Then I’ll just consider it FICTION like the rest.

The Ledgen lives on!

wrmickel1

Dr. Glover is a nice guy, but he doesn't pander to anyone. He's a scientist, he reports what he finds. I think you"ll like his section on the ore testing, as it could be construed to support the idea that a tiny piece of ore in the matchbox is anomalous to Arizona.

There's also no conspiracy surrounding the Holmes ore. It's pretty obvious and fairly well documented where it came from. No one cares if people believe it or not. It is what it is...take it or leave it.

 

[azdave35]

Dr. Glover is a nice guy, but he doesn't pander to anyone. He's a scientist, he reports what he finds. I think you"ll like his section on the ore testing, as it could be construed to support the idea that a tiny piece of ore in the matchbox is anomalous to Arizona.

There's also no conspiracy surrounding the Holmes ore. It's pretty obvious and fairly well documented where it came from. No one cares if people believe it or not. It is what it is...take it or leave it.

yep jim..i'd say there is more than enough eye witnesses and proof that waltz had ore under his bed and holmes got it....that's a given...where it came from is the real dilemma...

 

[wrmickel1]

Dr. Glover is a nice guy, but he doesn't pander to anyone. He's a scientist, he reports what he finds. I think you"ll like his section on the ore testing, as it could be construed to support the idea that a tiny piece of ore in the matchbox is anomalous to Arizona.

There's also no conspiracy surrounding the Holmes ore. It's pretty obvious and fairly well documented where it came from. No one cares if people believe it or not. It is what it is...take it or leave it.

But what’s not a solid fact is, Levi Company getting any ore from under that bed.

Babymick1

 

[somehiker]

I'm inclined to believe the Holmes account re: the candlebox, rather than the Holmes/Roberts version that popped up much later..
To me, it's entirely plausible that Julia could have asked a passing Holmes to mind Waltz while she went to fetch the doctor.
There's nothing in Dick's past that would indicate he was the type who would rummage through a dying or dead man's things looking for valuables, let alone under his bed. So someone had to have told him about the gold in the candlebox, and it wouldn't have been Julia. It must have been JW himself, the way I see it.