JESUIT TREASURES - ARE THEY REAL?

[Oroblanco]

One last point, and NO offense intended to our mutual amigo Don Jose', but if the fellow who owns (or owned) the Dios Padre were present amongst us, he would be arguing that Teopari IS Tayopa, for he discounts those inventory documents based on the dates.

Teopari can "fit the bill" in some respects, it is on a tributary of the Yaqui near the headwaters of the trib in fact, it has a number of mines (20) and there is a gold placer in the same district, which does not "fit" the version we get from the original Tayopa but he would say it could.

An extract I think you will find interesting

At one time the Jesuits had several missions in that now utterly deserted region. Within a radius of thirty miles southeast of Nacori lay the Indian villages of Tyopari Servas and Mochopa. The mission at Tyopari was founded in I676 while Servas became christianized about 1645 2 Northeast of the latter place lie the abandoned silver mines of Huaynopa about which weird tales are circulated in Sonora as well as in Chihuahua and the search for which has cost so many lives. Satechi is another abandoned village in that vicinity 2 The Indians who inhabited these villages were at Tyopari and Satechi Jovas at Mochopa and probably at Servas Opatas 3 Their abandonment was brought about by the incursions of the Apaches except in the case of Servas which the Sumas and Jocomes destroyed in 1690.4 The other three were still occupied in 1764 and given up between that year and the end of the past century 5 In examining the antiquities of this region the fact of the comparatively recent abandonment of these villages should not be overlooked nor should it be forgotten that several attempts at mining were made during the early part of the eighteenth century in the interior of the Sierra Madre 1

<Papers of the Archaeological Institute of America: American series, Volume 4>

There is considerably more that would go along to support Teopari as the Tayopa of "legend" however this will suffice; as this last passage was written by an archaeologist and notes that mining was carried on in these same Jesuit missions I think it will do for now. Getting late and much to do tomorrow, "no rest for the wicked" as they say.
Oroblanco

 

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[cactusjumper]

Roy,

"Teopari can "fit the bill" in some respects, it is on a tributary of the Yaqui near the headwaters of the trib in fact, it has a number of mines (20) and there is a gold placer in the same district, which does not "fit" the version we get from the original Tayopa but he would say it could."

I believe Teopare is on the upper end of the Rio Teopare, which is a tributary of the Rio Haro. You may want to check and see if that is correct, but it's a small point.

Take care,

Joe

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Ladies & Gentlemen: It was posted -->Why do you suppose they didn't just use this mission system to ship everything to the Vatican? Why can't those missions be named so we can research their histories
~~~~~~~~~~

I believe that I was the one to establish the series of small missions that were set up to clandestinely move metal to just below Matamorros for transhipment to Rome. later they started to keep the major part at the Tayopa site for financing the take over attempt.

Que joe, you can start right off in Az near Arivaca, to the north.

Later in Chih. You can excavate the bigger one E of Yepache, in the large curve of the hiway. nothing remains visible, but the subterranean room still exists. The Indians that own the area have invited me to work this one. I can give you the co-ord.

When you get through, I will give you several more. NO, before you ask, they are 'not' listed in any readily available documents, yet they exist?

I wonder why they aren't listed ? heheh snicker.

Don jose de La Mancha

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Hi for those that might be interested in the Dios Padre mine, possibly Tayopa #2, go to -->

www.goldandsilvermines.com.
click on "View all listings"
scroll down to "Dios padres" ( 8 th listing)
Click on it
go to the lower right to " I agree", click on it.

The area is almost a dead zone from Cu etc. contamination. The area is strewn with old rusting equipment and the water is greenish or brown.

The owner that I knew, was from Texas, he and his partners were attempting to sell it. Guided tours were available under the newer Mexican
owners. He did NOT wish to discuss if it were actually Tayopa, let alone Tayopa no. 2.

Also go to Google and enter "Dios Padre Mine for pages of past data on it.

It is NOT The Tayopa, it is Tayopa #2 which subsequently had it's name changed from Guadalupe de Tayopa" to La Devina Trinidad, now called La Trinidad. The title "Tayopa" was transferred to #3, my Tayopa, THE tayopa of legend.

It can easily be reached by vehicle today. They opened a road to Yecora for better / easier access.

Don Jose de La Mancha

p.s. On the included map, courtesy of "Jesuit gold by Adrian Westwood", it is listed in the lower left hand corner.

 

[Oroblanco]

I would point out here that the online ad (thank you Don Jose') states at the bottom that Dios Padre is the Tayopa of Dobie etc. Hence we could use it alone to show that we have a real mission, a real mine and real Jesuits in the "legend" of Tayopa. I personally am convinced that Don Jose's Tayopa is THE original Tayopa of the early 1600's which is referred to in the inventory, the dates are just too old for Teopari to work. There is also the question of Guerigo trees, which fits Don Jose's site, none at Teopari.

As for the nomenclature of the rivers, I was working from memory but do recall that the LOCAL use of the names was different from modern map names, even calling a part of the actual Yaqui river by a different name I cannot recall, and a tributary as Yaqui etc.
Oroblanco

 

[cactusjumper]

Roy,

[I would point out here that the online ad (thank you Don Jose') states at the bottom that Dios Padre is the Tayopa of Dobie etc. Hence we could use it alone to show that we have a real mission, a real mine and real Jesuits in the "legend" of Tayopa.]

Actually, they don't claim that it is the Tayopa Mine.

"If you are a history buff, then you should know that this is reputed to be the famous Lost Tayopa Mine prominently mentioned in books by J. Frank Dobie ( Apache Gold and Yaqui Silver ) and others."

They leave it up to the reader to decide for themselves. Those who are so inclined, will conclude that it is the Tayopa Mine. How do you come to your written conclusions......"mission" and "Jesuits" from what is quoted above.

IMHO, it's just another unsupported story. Could be true, could be fiction.

Take care,

Joe

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Here are a few lines copied from a no. of pages referring to Tayopa from a buried chest in the ruins of a mission.

As for the Jesuits that were involved in Tayopa, remember . according to my limited data, they were first involved at Guaynopa. then La Trinidad, 'then' Tayopa. It would be difficult to prove except for selective one bit of data in a copy of an original group of documents which states -
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"que antes se llamo'Guadalupe de Tayopa y despues transferio al nombre Real de La Divina Trinidad, el cual queda al puesto del Sol del pueblo antigua de Yecora.

Existe tambien un Tayopa no. tres, o sea el Tercer Tayopa. el cual tengo por intiendido quedo' la mayor parte del Tesoro econdido"
~~~~~~~~~~~~

"Before we called it the Guadalupe of Tayopa, and after transferred the name Real of the divine Tinidad, it is to the West of the old / ancient town of Yecora.

There also exists a Tayopa no. 3, or to say the third Tayopa. This, I understand, has the major part of the treasure hidden."

Don Jose de La Mancha

p.s. Remember Ladies and Gentlemen, I am not trying to prove that Tayopa exists, I Know that it does and where it is, I am merely answering a few questions

 

[Oroblanco]

Cactusjumper wrote

They leave it up to the reader to decide for themselves. Those who are so inclined, will conclude that it is the Tayopa Mine. How do you come to your written conclusions......"mission" and "Jesuits" from what is quoted above.

IMHO, it's just another unsupported story. Could be true, could be fiction.

I do not come to those conclusions from that single statement. How did you arrive at that - have I posted just too much words? As for "unsupported" for "mission" and "Jesuits" I will indulge you. This will be a VERY long post, and I beg your patience.

First, establishing that Teopari was in fact a MISSION and not just a visita,

Teopari A former pueblo of the Jova and seat of a Spanish mission founded in 1676 situated in к Sonora Mexico a few miles s E of the Opata village of Nacori Pop 369 in 1678 259 in 1730 Dolores was its visita The pueblo was abandoned between 1764 and 1800 owing to Apache depredations San Jose de Teopari de Ovas ZnpatA 167S in Doe Hist Мех 4th я HI 342 1857 San JCM Teopari Rivera 1730 quoted by Bancroft X Мех States i 514 1884 Tyopari Bandolier in Arch Inst Papers m 56 1890 iv 510 Iftrj

<from Handbook of the Indians Bulletin Volume 30, Part 2 By Smithsonian Institution. Bureau of American Ethnology, US Govt Printing Office, 1910, pp 730 >

Natera A former pueblo of the Jova in w Chihuahua Mexico near the mission of Teopari of which it was a visita prior to itd abandonment in 1748 The inhabitant moved to within half a league Arivechi and later settled in the of Ponida Batoimae Doc of 18th cent quoted by 1и Arch In Papers IV 511 1892

<ibid, pp 39>

Santa Maria de los Dolores Saint Mary of the Sorrows A former pueblo of the Jova with 180 inhabitants m 1730 situated in E Sonora Mexico near Rio Viejo a tributary of the Yaqui It formed a visita of the mission of Teopari prior to the abandonment of that pueblo on account of Apache depredations in the latter part of the 18th century Dolor Rivera 1730 quoted by Bancroft No Мех States I 614 1884 Loi Dolores Orozco y Berra Geog 345 1864 Santa Maria de los Dolores Rivera 1730 cited by Bandelier in Arch Inst Papers IV 510 1892

<ibid, pp 459>

The Mission of Natora was deserted in 1 748 by order of the Viceroy Count of Revillagigedo on account of its being incapable of administration from Teopari its head place because of the many mountains the dangerous passes and the long distance to the place where the natives belonging to the Jova nation located in the neighborhood of Aribechi They inhabit at present the town of Ponida from where they are attended Since then the town of Theopari with the Chamado ranch became part of the Saguaripa Mission the town of San Mateo having been depopulated that same year or a little before by an invasion of the Apaches San Mateo was visiting place of said Mission and the few natives of the Opata nation were sent to the head Mission as they could not resist such an enemy Rebeico of the Jovas visiting place of Matape was depopulated I do not know in what year because of

<note Apaches blamed for attack, just as we find in the "legend" of Tayopa>
<from Records of the American Catholic Historical Society of Philadelphia, Volume 5 By American Catholic Historical Society of Philadelphia pp 227

I believe this passage directly relates to Don Jose's Tayopa

San Juan del Rio was in former times a little place inhabited by Opatas having been a visiting place of Texas and was twelve leagues further down the river from Opotu. The ruins of a small chapel are still to be seen there It was afterwards a rich Royal mining settlement The town called by the Opatas Toapora and which was depopulated in 1686 being powerless to withstand the attacks of the Apaches was a ranch of the Opatas situated three leagues further down the river and was good country

<ibid>
This is of course in opposition to J. Frank Dobie's claim that the record of history on Tayopa is "blank" for it is NOT blank.

That these Missions were closely associated with silver mines

vegetables through year In the neighborhood of this Mission there are a great many deserted silver mines the Apaches having made much havoc there and having put many to death One is San Juan del Rio twelve leagues North of Opotu another the Nori three leagues off in the same direction To the East Southwest and Southwest at a distance of four five seven or eight leagues and also to the Northwest at a distance of fifteen leagues the Indians have found evident signs of mines for the variety of color in the soil and stones as well as the flashes observed by night on the slope of some of the hills in the vicinity during the rainy season indicate the abundance of mineral ore but the extreme poverty of the inhabitants and the fear of the hostile Indians are obstacles in the way of working it The same signs are to be found in the environs of Guasabas but without being of any avail for the same reason and this is also true of two mines which yielded a great quantity of silver in years gone by when the Apaches used to come at longer intervals and in lesser numbers One was San Christobal five leagues West south west and the other San Patricio nearly the same distance West of Guasavas The first though hard had and will have a good vein whose metal is half silver It is a short distance from La Culebrilla and may be seen from the road According to a constantly repeated story among the natives there is likewise near La Cule brilla a vein of native silver which was for many years in the possession of an old man of Guasabas who upon going to get from his treasure what he needed used to take a chopping knife with which aided by a stone he cut the piece he thought large enough to supply his wants In order to hide the richness of his mine he was in the habit of melting the piece he had cut making an ingot of it as if it were common metal But neither from himself nor from a boy whom he was in the habit of taking with him as a guard with instructions to throw a stone if any one approached during the cutting of the silver has it been possible to learn the whereabouts of this vein The boy was ignorant of the locality of the vein for the old man was careful to place him where he could not see anything On the slope of the mountain which rises in the East in front of and in sight of the town they say there is another such vein of silver as is supposed known to an Indian who died in 1760 but as there is a tradition among the Indians that any one revealing the whereabouts of a mine soon dies they will not show one to a Spaniard for any price no matter how great the advantages offered them It is even of no use to tell them that the Missionary Father gives his pledge for the fulfilment of the promises made them and asserts that far from having their life shortened by revealing the secret God Almighty will prolong it should they have the courage to do away with such superstitions more fit for old women than for brave and wise men
Besides the productions mentioned we find in the vicinity of this Mission abundance of alum chalk and two springs of hot water one half a league to the North and the other one and a half leagues West of Guasavas In Opotu there is

<ibid>

Sound familiar? Now just a bit on the Jovas of Teopari;

The Opatas Eudebes and Jovas
The Opatas and some of the Eudebes though in a limited degree are in comparison to the other Indians as the people of the towns are in comparison to the country people for although they do not cease to be Indians yet in the end reason prevails with them among all of these they are the best Christians they are the most loyal vassals of our Lord the King never having rebelled against him or his ministers They are the most inclined to work to till their lands and to raise cattle they are the truest and bravest in war and many times have shown their courage both by aiding the Royal troops and on their own account in various campaigns at the expense of the Missions
What has been said of the Opatas may be more or less applied to the Eudebes with the only difference that the latter are still more attached to their ancient customs and usages The Jovas are ruder and more awkward especially the greater portion of their nation who are unwilling to live in villages barring those of Ponida Teopari and Mochopa They like to live in the ravines of the mountains where they were born and notwithstanding the good works done to them the kind treatment the conveniences and comforts offered them in order to retain them in the villages when they have been induced to come to them such is their obstinacy that they oppose everything just as it happened in the case of the present Missionary Father of the Bacadequatzi Mission of the Satechi ranches and those of the banks of the rivers Mulatos and Arcos who live on roots herbs and wild fruits planting nothing but a few stalks of corn and a few squashes in those places where they can be raised among the ravines formed by those rivers in the mountains

<ibid>

That these Missions are Jesuit,

Next to this is the Mission of Saguaripa four leagues North in twenty nine degress four minutes latitude and two hundred and sixty six degrees fifty minutes longitude of the one just mentioned The Missionary is Father Thomas Perez His visiting town Tespari is eighteen leagues to the East with some deviation towards the North These towns belong to the nation of Jova as does also the ranche of San Cayetano de Chamada seven leagues distant and the ranch of Chipafora eight leagues from the head Mission

<ibid>

I put TESPARI in bold because it is a typographical error - it is Teopari unmistakably by its description.

Sahuaripa is the next main mission, lying four leagues north of Arivechi at 29 degrees, 4 minutes latitude and 266 degrees, 54 minutes longitude. It is administered by Father Tomás Pérez [de la Busta] and has Teópari as a dependent mission. Sahuaripa also embraces the ranches of [San Cayetano de] Chamada [Chamata on Nentvig's map] seven leagues beyond Teópari and [San Juan de Dios de] Chipafora eight leagues north-northeast of Sahuaripa itself as well as the village of Santo Tomás just south to which the inhabitants of Chamada had been moved. Its parishioners belong to the Jova nation.

<Rudo Ensayo, Nentvig>

If you still have doubts look up Father Tomás Pérez de la Busta, S.J.

Further documentary evidence that Teopari had MINES

Les principaux placers et mines connus sont liasse
Sonora Placers de Totaiqui, de Calabazos, de Santo Domingo, los Placeres, Cañada del Oro, Bamachi, Bavispe, Lampazos, Palos blancos, San Antonio de las Huertas, Cajón de Guacomea, La Candelaria, La Jo joba, San Francisco Javier de Caloci, Chiltepín, Chinoverachi, Cañada de los Apaches, San José de Teopari Mesa de Guadalupe, Capulín, Mulatos, La Cieneguilla, Las Palomas, San Perfecto, El Senio, Quitovac, San Antonio et Sonoyta

<from LES ETATS UNIS MEXICAINS Leurs Resources Naturalles by R. De Zayes Enriquez MEXICO IMPRIMERIE DU MINISTÈR de FOMENTO Rue an Audres 5 1899 pp40>

Yes this is in French, but I am pointing out the NAME and the terms PLACER and MINES, so if you need more translation than this it will be easy for you.

This should establish that there WAS a Mission at Teopari, which was later a visita, that it was under Jesuit rectorship, that it has mines

In the same source mentioned earlier (Catholic records) , we find yet another "curious" passage, where the Missionary Father is complaining about runaway Indios whom were literally running away from the Missions to go work for the "evil" Spaniards in mines;

This love of idleness keeps them poor and needy so that the ministering priest has to provide them during most of the year with victuals and clothing if he wishes them to attend the instructions in their villages and not rove about among the placer mines of gold and the mining settlements where in a short time they forget the teachings and the Christianity which for many years and w1th indescribable labor has been imparted to them and learn in a few days vices of which they had no knowledge in their villages

This is the reason why some of the inhabitants of different villages and I speak of what I know with absolute certainty live with women clandestinely serving the Spaniards on distant ranches some ten some four some three years without the Missionary Father being able to trace their lurking places by the most careful search Even if by some means he succeeds in finding them out he lacks the power by which he could bring these stray sheep back to the fold and they pricked by the consciousness of wrong always on the <snip>

But I think I can give some light that will clear up the difficulty without much trouble by saying that in the first ranche or a mining settlement or Spanish town where the day laborers live separately the runaway Indians meet with teachers of such a character that in a couple of hours they are led into errors which corrupt them and cause the ruin of both body and soul and although having lived in their own villages and enjoyed the ownership of their property their liberty and their own persons subject only to the easy duties and ceremonies of the Christians for the love of a licentious life they stoop to slavery and condemn themselves to exile

It seems incredible that many of the relatives even husbands or wives when they have them should not know anything about the runaway Indian but it is a fact that no notice is given either to the Magistrate or the ministering father until they are missing from the town and then it 1s impossible even by offering mines of gold and promising secrecy as to who told to make anybody say what direction the fugitive took And here again we find a contradiction in their disposition the inviolability of secrecy m helping one another notwithstanding their inconstancy and fickleness

<ibid>

Offering mines of GOLD? How could a missionary offer this, if he had none?

Thank you for your patience to read through this very long post, I will close here.
Oroblanco

 

[Crow]

Hello All

Here is some thing that may be of interest. There was a discovery in 1891 of treasure in an old fortress at Rio in Brazil. The is mention of a letter linking the Jesuits to a payment to the king of Portugal.

That seems a lot of money for an humble order that cries poor all the time?

I wonder who claimed it ??

Crow

 

[Oroblanco]

WOW Crow thank you and WELCOME! That would really fit the definition of "Jesuit treasure"!
<two thumbs up>

The missions including Teopari were transferred to Franciscans, which may be causing confusion TODAY;

Arizpe town capital after 17S3 of bishopric Provincias Internas and intendencia It had 118 adobe houses in 1778. The population in that year was 1,534 of which 1,020 were Indians. Excise tax in 1792 2,192. There were many productive mines of gold and silver in the district besides about 40 abandoned mines The missions of Sonora given to the Jalisco Franciscans in 1768 were Yecora with Zaraichi and Onapa P Fernando Ponce dc Leon attacked by rebel Pimas in 1703 and the visitas abandoned or occupied by mulattoes etc before 17S4 Arivechi with liacanora P Josi's Maria Cabrera Sahuarita with Teopari P Joaquin Ramirez Guazabas with Oputo and Cumpas Boca do Gandu with Nacori and Mochapa Baseraca with Guachimera and Babispe Bacoachi and Cuquiarachi

<from History of the north Mexican states, Volume 1 By Hubert Howe Bancroft, Henry Lebbeus Oak, Joseph Joshua Peatfield, William Nemos, pp 688>

So actually it is accurate to say Teopari was Jesuit AND Franciscan, though it appears (to me) that the Jesuits certainly accomplished more.
Oroblanco

 

[mrs.oroblanco]

Woooooooooooowwwwwwwwwiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiieeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!

B

 

[Oroblanco]

A note for Joe - a source on the Franciscans entering the Jesuit domain of Sonora,
The Franciscan Entrada into Sonora 1645-1652: A Jesuit Chronicle by CW Polzer - 1972

 

[cactusjumper]

Hi Roy,

You seem to be getting a little worked up over our differing of opinions on this subject. If you would just prefer that I abandon the opposing position, I will. It's nothing worth getting your B.P. elevated over.

This is what you wrote:

[I would point out here that the online ad (thank you Don Jose') states at the bottom that Dios Padre is the Tayopa of Dobie etc. Hence we could use it "alone" to show that we have a real mission, a real mine and real Jesuits in the "legend" of Tayopa.]

My reply was:

How do you come to your written conclusions......"mission" and "Jesuits" from what is quoted above."

I think that was a reasonable question, considering what you wrote. Having read all of your other posts, I of course realize that you have a plethora of "evidence" to support that position. Unfortunately, you opined that the ad......"alone" is all that is needed to show that "we have a real mission, a real mine........"

You may notice that I left out any mention of Tayopa.

I don't think I said Teopare was never a mission, but perhaps I did. I know it was a mission. Baptisms began in 1676, and in 1678 it received its first priest, Domingo Miguel. By 1678 he was celebrating Mass in a jacal with adobe walls and a thatched roof. He had plans to build a church, but left before that could happen. That was around 1680 and by taking over Sahuaripa, who's priest had died, (Father Cuellar)Teopare became its visita. Prior to that, it was the other way around.

Before 1697, Teopare was made a cabacera again by Daniel Janusque of Tubutama. He left for Oposura by 1702, and Teopare was again a visita.

I could go on with it's history, but suffice it to say it was a visita at the end of Jesuit tenure. Don't believe there was ever much of a mission building there. Does all of that jell with the legendary Tayopa Mission? How about the era of existance?

Hope all is well with you and Beth.

Take care,

Joe

 

[Oroblanco]

No worries about my BP, there has been a misunderstanding which must root in how I phrased the whole issue of Teopari. I was saying that alone in Teopari, we have a real mission, real Jesuits, and real mines, which CAN be pointed to as Tayopa, as Dobie, Ruggles and others have. It is not fair (in my opinion) to refer to this as a "legendary mine, legendary mission, legendary Jesuit" when it is possible to show this not to be the case in any of those categories. If you have Dobie's book Apache Gold, Yaqui Silver (I am pretty sure you do) and compare the site he claims to be Tayopa, you will find it is Teopari.

I don't have any money or personal feelings involved whether you believe there is any truth to the stories of Jesuit treasures and/or mines or not, and credit you with at least being willing to hear it out which is more than I can say for some. I am perfectly comfortable in letting the whole subject drop, without having convinced you of anything and being at wholly opposite opinions. Some of your statements, such as the "boogeyman" and dismissing even Jesuit sources which admit of being involved with mines, certainly surprised me.

There have been posts here on T-net and elsewhere, stating that there never were any Jesuit mines nor treasures, and that all of these stories were simply fantasy of treasure writers, which is what we are refuting here.
Oroblanco

 

[gollum]

Fantastic article Crow! THANKS!

Joe,

Are you questioning the existence of Jesuit Coadjutors and their use of them for temporal needs?

Actually, I hate to even use that term. I wish there was another one (like Lay Brothers). I began reading about them in books by Fathers Burrus SJ and Polzer SJ. I recently Googled the term and saw that every nutjob in the world accuses everybody of being Jesuit Coadjutors.

Mike

 

[cactusjumper]

Crow,

That was interesting. Can the information be found anywhere else?

Thanks in advance,

Joe Ribaudo

 

[cactusjumper]

Mike,

"Are you questioning the existence of Jesuit Coadjutors and their use of them for temporal needs?"


My....my! Did I write that? The key words in what I did write were, "secret society".

Take care,

Joe

 

[Crow]

Hello Cactus Jumper

In answer to your question about any other articles on the Rio discovery?

There is an article about the Treasure found in Rio in the San Antonio Daily light date 20th September 1891:

Also there is an article in San Antonio Daily light 14th September 1891:

The is Another article in the West Australian Newspaper Thursday 3rd of September 1891:

Regards Crow

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

good afternoon: I loved that " all the 'claimants' were represented." NOW, ask me again "why I am so slow in opening up Tayopa if I really have it".

When the time comes, I will only have one crack at it, it had better be perfect. I still have one heck of a long ways to go.

The deposits lie outside of Tayopa proper, who can prove to whom they originally belonged to, especially if I enter first.

A entirely different matter Oro..

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[cactusjumper]

Crow,

Very nice indeed. Can you tell me where you found all of these different articles?

Thanks you in advance,

Joe