JESUIT TREASURES - ARE THEY REAL?

[BenThereDoneThat]

You hit the nail on the head PLL
Also another thing i have often wondered. It will just take an enterprising young lawyer to bring this to the attention of the right group of people...........then let the law suits fly...........would rather see treasure hunters / salvage crew's share with the people of this land and to hell with the Spaniards

Tim

 

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[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

LADIES,Gentlemen & mike: You posted -->

They believed that their Gods would kill them for revealing those locations out of revenge for giving away tribal secrets.
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From what they told me, this belief was passed down by the Fathers. The Fathers apparently told them that all belonged to the LORD, and a such, only they, the Jesuits, were allowed to touch / mine any precious metals. If they revealed the location of a mine / vein / treasure to anyone but a Father, they would be severely punished by the LORD.

This naturally has been modified through the years, and today a Sierra Indian is still very uncomfortable about showing anything. I personally have known a few that became very sick after showing the supposed location of a treasure.

One did die, the other I saved by simply suggesting that the Vit "C" tablets that I gave him was a specific antdote, blessed by the Church. They no longer associate the Curse with the Jesuits, just a vague something horrible.

Another thing Mike, if you get a chance again, ask them about the Plot with the Dutch to take North America away from Spain. I already have had indirect confirmation from the Jesuit society in Rome, but am curious as to their interpretation and knowledge.

Also, in their opinion, if the Jesuit society would have any legal claim on the Tayopa deposits, or any of the associated deposits in the string of small missions that were set up to move metal clandestinely across Northern Mexico to that bay below Matamorros for transhipment to Rome.

They would have no legal claim on Tayopa, or any other mine, no problem there.

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[cactusjumper]

Don Jose,

"....ask them about the Plot with the Dutch to take North America away from Spain. I already have had indirect confirmation from the Jesuit society in Rome, but am curious as to their interpretation and knowledge."

Why don't you take a few minutes and tell us what you know about the plot? Not asking for everything you know, just a short outline. Having "indirect confirmation from the Jesuit society in Rome", I assume you must have quite a file on the subject.

Do you know how many Jesuits were executed over the plot? Were any of them well known or famous? Did the plot have Jesuits in North America involved, or were they all in Europe? How does one get "indirect confirmation form the Jesuits"? If it's not directly from them, isn't it suspect? They still have many enemies, even today.

One last question: Have you ever observed the Yaqui Easter ceremony?

Thanks in advance.

Take care,

Joe

 

[Oroblanco]

Gollum wrote

I don't think the Jesuits ever murdered anybody who refused to work for them.

Well, what about the pregnant woman who died in the stocks, put there by Fr Tomas Tello, SJ, shortly before the 1751 Pima rebellion? I know we can't count the "prisoner lancing" incident as it was not a case of refusing to work.

One other thing, before we throw too many stones at the Jesuits for mistreatment of the Indians, compared to some others they were fairly mild - the Franciscan friars in Alta CA had cases of runaways from their missions involving up to 250 at a time, requiring soldiers, etc and resulting in several violent reactions. A similar and worse comparison would be New Mexico prior to the 1680 Pueblo revolt. The Franciscans seem to have been quicker to use the whip and other forms of corporal punishment.
Oroblanco

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

good evening Joe: you asked several questions that have been answered many times before in posts that you have read.

A) You posted --> Why don't you take a few minutes and tell us what you know about the plot?
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If You wish, I will cut and paste that repeated data.
************************************************************
B) You posted--> Having "indirect confirmation from the Jesuit society in Rome", I assume you must have quite a file on the subject.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Large enough for my purposes. My then partner's personal audience with the no. 2 of the Jesuit society in Rome.
****************************************************************
C You posted --> Have you ever observed the Yaqui Easter ceremony?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Yes, various times in the nearby ranches / towns of the Yaqui in the Bacatetes. In some, no other so called Anglo was permitted. The ones on the hiway, or Obregon are simply very tame versions of Christ, his being trailed, caught, tried, convicted, then crucified for the Tourists both Mexican and American.

Incidentally, in one they erected an open cane screen, knee to shoulder heigth for the men to get rid of excess beer. The flat area wasn't flat, but sloped from the Screen, down across the middle of cleared area to the arroyo. It was a miniature arroyo itself snicker. Excellent planning.

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[gollum]

Jose,

That was already asked of both of them. Neither one had heard anything about that.

As a backup to that question, I sent emails to my friend at the Jesuit Curia in Rome and the History Dept. of the University of Leiden in the Netherlands. I have not gotten a response yet.

Best-Mike

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Gracious Mike, that is understandable, they wouldn't be in the "need to know group". I was just curious. Incidentally the missions do exist. My new project.

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[gollum]

I want to add another very important point here:

I see a lot of people using signs and symbols associated with the Spanish trying to use those same symbols to hunt Jesuit treasures.

If you do this, you won't find squat! Remember what we already know about the relationship between the Spanish and the Jesuits. At first, the Jesuits were pitted against the Spanish Seculars. Later, the Jesuits were at odds with the Spanish Crown. I will put this next sentence in all caps. THEY WOULD NEVER USE SIGNS OR SYMBOLS THAT THE SPANISH (WHOM THEY WERE HIDING THEIR TREASURES FROM) WOULD BE ABLE TO UNDERSTAND!

Best-Mike

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

hi Gully: Soo true, I never used any signs for locating Tayopa for many reasons. In the case of the Gloria Pan, there was a large rock on the cliff that was a critical reference point. It had data engraved on it´s south facing surface. Jorge Vega, after seeing it, tumbled it down into the arroyo. When I asked him why, he replied ¨ If anyone else comes here looking of the Gloria Pan, they will have to come to me¨. Fortunatly, I had already had the information from an Indian. So in general I don´t trust signs. Frankly it will be a hot day in Hades before I post a sign - or document saying ¨here is my hidden thingie ¨

I will correct that, once I did use a sign. On one of the bits of data, a map of Tayopa, , it showed a sun high on a cliff. To authenticate it, I needed to find that Sun. After a few years of looking and questioning the Indians that lived in the region with no success, I finally gave up. Then one day as I was breaking the color down in the photographs into the three primary colors for increased contrast, I suddenly saw it. It was hidden by low growth.

In one of the separations of color it had penetrated the growth showing the circle / Sun quite clearly. What they a done was to simply scrape out a ring of almost 100 ft in diameter with perhaps a 20 foot wide ring width in the top soil down to the underlying bed rock on a cliff of about 75 degrees. It is positioned to be readily visible when you start to enter the Tayopa complex from perhaps 2 -3000 meters away. It lies on the Eastern crest of the mountain ridge separating Sonora / Chihuahua. It verified the map that had been drawn on location, and semi confirmed it´s dating and data..

Incidentally it was soo large, that standing on it would not give you a hint of it being there, unless you were specifically looking for it.

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[gollum]

Right. Things like hearts, turtles, mine symbols, and crosses, would have never been used by Jesuits. After all, why would they use symbols that the people they were hiding their treasures from would so easily understand? ANSWER: They wouldn't!

Best-Mike

 

[rochha]

Gollum,

I belive they would some of those symbols and give them totally different meanings.

Rochha

 

[cactusjumper]

Mike,

"Right. Things like hearts, turtles, mine symbols, and crosses, would have never been used by Jesuits. After all, why would they use symbols that the people they were hiding their treasures from would so easily understand? ANSWER: They wouldn't!"

That's been my argument for years.

Take care,

Joe

 

[Peerless67]

Right. Things like hearts, turtles, mine symbols, and crosses, would have never been used by Jesuits. After all, why would they use symbols that the people they were hiding their treasures from would so easily understand? ANSWER: They wouldn't!

Best-Mike

How did the Spanish hide their treasures from each other ?

 

[gollum]

Right. Things like hearts, turtles, mine symbols, and crosses, would have never been used by Jesuits. After all, why would they use symbols that the people they were hiding their treasures from would so easily understand? ANSWER: They wouldn't!

Best-Mike

How did the Spanish hide their treasures from each other ?

Great question.

I can only imagine that the main things that kept Spanish Mines safe from other Spaniards was a combination of Laws (against theft), remoteness of the area, and final clues.

Remember that mining in the North of Pimeria Alta was not year round. You could only mine up here for several months out of the year. When mining season ended, the mines were sealed (and the very rich ones booby trapped). There were very few Spaniards that would venture into the Desert Mountains during the Summer Months. Same as today.

While known monuments would get you through the long distances and even up into the canyons nearby, once you came close to a hidden mine, the clues became very small (sometimes buried) and individual to the mine owner. One of Kenworthy's Documents was from a Mine Owner asking permission to register a certain symbol with a Palace Of Governors. That tells me that final mine signs were usually different to each mine owner.

Best-Mike

 

[Oroblanco]

Right. Things like hearts, turtles, mine symbols, and crosses, would have never been used by Jesuits. After all, why would they use symbols that the people they were hiding their treasures from would so easily understand? ANSWER: They wouldn't!

Best-Mike

How did the Spanish hide their treasures from each other ?

I realize this was directed to our amigo Gollum, but in at least some instances, these mysterious symbols are rather more like claim monuments, marking out the boundaries of a claim or concession. Just my opinion, but especially when four markers are found in a rectangle or square, I would sooner accept them to be intended to be corner monuments than "trail markers".
Oroblanco

 

[Peerless67]

I agree Oro, road signs, claim stakes and local maps in remote places.

 

[bandit27]

Very Interesting topic and conversation. I would like to add this.

http://www.esotericarchives.com/solomon/jesuit.htm#chap11

 

[cactusjumper]

Bandit,

Welcome to the topic.

Could it be they are writing about "Holy Treasures"? If so, it may be those treasures are not of this world.

Joe Ribaudo

 

[gollum]

I wonder if you have to be a Jesuit for those Summonses to work?

Maybe I'll try one the next time I go out to the desert!

Best-Mike

 

[Oroblanco]

WELCOME TO TREASURENET Bandit! Thanks for the link too!