JESUIT TREASURES - ARE THEY REAL?

Don Jose,

Did you ever consider that the artifacts were cast on location? Is it your considered opinion that it would be impossible to remove the statue from the mountains.....by legal or illegal means?

The statue weighed 34,250 pounds, + or - a couple of pounds. It left the mountains in six pieces. The cross is still resting where it had been buried.
In order to remove the statue from the mountains, we had to calculate how much it weighed, and how much each of the six pieces weighed.

Take care,

Joe
 

cactusjumper said:
Don Jose,

Did you ever consider that the artifacts were cast on location? Is it your considered opinion that it would be impossible to remove the statue from the mountains.....by legal or illegal means?

The statue weighed 34,250 pounds, + or - a couple of pounds. It left the mountains in six pieces. The cross is still resting where it had been buried.
In order to remove the statue from the mountains, we had to calculate how much it weighed, and how much each of the six pieces weighed.

Take care,

Joe
Click to expand...

Hmmm, that'd be about 5,500 pounds per priest piece - almost 3 tons each, give or take a few hundred pounds here and there. Must have used a handtruck to trundle 'em down that slope. And I thought moving a refrigerator was tough!

Let's see - half a million troy ounces for the statue alone - pretty darned good diggings, no?
 

Springfield,

No handtruck, more like an airtruck, arranged for by the buyer. Believe it was called a "K" something or other. Kicked up one hell of a dust storm.

Take care,

Joe
 

cactusjumper said:
Springfield,

No handtruck, more like an airtruck, arranged for by the buyer. Believe it was called a "K" something or other. Kicked up one hell of a dust storm.

Take care,

Joe
Click to expand...

Yeah, I guess he splurged to make things easier.
 

cactusjumper said:
Roy,

According to many in the Dutch Hunting Community, I discovered Harry LaFrance's Cave Of Gold Bars on the north side and below Superstition Peak, in 2005. It is said that myself and a small team (six men) removed a fortune of gold bullion from the cave and moved it out of the mountains to a small mine we had purchased for storage. The location of that mine is being kept secret for obvious reasons.

Since then, most of the gold has been sold to anonymous parties, but the records of that sale are being held in a bank vault in Switzerland, along with most of the funds from the sales.

In Apache Junction this is common knowledge and has been for five years now. It is the accepted "history" for the locals, yet it has not been made public knowledge until now. For proof, I can provide pictures of the cave, as well as the gold bars that were removed.

The site has been visited by many treasure hunters and it is well known. In the back of the cave, were stacks of paintings, painted by Ted DeGrazia. There was also a life size, solid gold, statue of a Jesuit priest, which was sold to a private collector.

The Mexican collector who purchased the Jesuit statue, had it authenticated by the well known archaeologist, Felipe R. Solis Olguin. At some point in time, he intends to donate it to the National Anthropology Museum in Mexico City. All of the records of authentication are sealed until the statue is donated to the museum.

The six foot solid gold cross was buried nearby. It came from the Jesuit Mission in the canyon below the cave/mine. I am at work now, but when I get home I will post pictures of mission ruins.

The cave of gold bars was a documented find, and has been mentioned in many books.
cave.jpg


All of this information can be confirmed by Dale Provence, who is living somewhere in California on a large gated estate.

Beyond that, I firmly believe the above story is true.

Take care,

Joe
Click to expand...

OK... You now have my UNDIVIDED attention !!!!! Just waiting on the pixs !!!!

PLL
 

There was also a life size, solid gold, statue of a Jesuit priest...
Click to expand...

cactusjumper said:
The statue weighed 34,250 pounds, + or - a couple of pounds.
Joe
Click to expand...

If gold weighs 1200 pounds/cubic foot and the statue was life-size, how could it weigh 34,250 pounds, which is approx. 28 cubic feet.

Were the priests giants?
 

Yammy Elf wrote
Roy...you seem to do a lot of copy/pasting off the internet without checking the credentials of the material.
Click to expand...

No source is un-questionable, even the Encyclopedia Brittanica has been found to have the occasional error. Copy and paste is what you as well as several others here demand, you never wish to read the words I would write and give them no weight, so you get cut and paste extracts from the sources available. I am sorry if you would prefer scholastic references only, but this is a family oriented site.

Lamar wrote
The Jesuits are Brothers and not Friars.
Click to expand...

You are making a large issue out of a common usage of Anglo speakers amigo; as you are very well aware, outside of your world it is common to refer to monks, friars, etc interchangably.

Cactusjumper wrote
The six foot solid gold cross was buried nearby. It came from the Jesuit Mission in the canyon below the cave/mine. I am at work now, but when I get home I will post pictures of mission ruins.
Click to expand...

This story is one which is both fascinating and very difficult to "prove up" - I can't find even a single reference to any Jesuits ever venturing into the Superstitions. However one padre DID explore up the Salt river, is it improbable that he would have explored the region? Don't get me wrong - I personally am convinced those gold bars, the statue, cross etc did in fact originate with the Jesuits, and were hidden in the period between 1759-67. We could argue the gold originated with Pancho Villa, or Maximilian or the Franciscans etc with very little to support any of those theories, but the most probable origins are the Jesuits.

That gold does answer one question, that is where did all the gold (and silver) go? A fair amount of silver was used to ornament the various churches as well as some of the gold, but if the mines were operating for years this would be a minor part of the output. From the finds of Spanish shipwrecks we know that some was being shipped back to Europe, in the name of the Church, but this would have become very risky in the late period (1759 and after) so the metal produced in that period would be safer if hidden.

Side note here but if someone is expecting us to turn up a Jesuit document listing the treasure hidden in the cave found by Lefrance, I wish you luck. It would have been very stupid to let such a document get into circulation.

Just my opinion, but I think the Jesuits ought to be proud of their mines and mineral explorations; the use of Indians as labor was no worse than the Spanish (or Portuguese) were doing, and they were credited with being the first (Europeans) to mine precious metals in the western USA; the explorations of Father Kino rank with those of many famous explorers. I don't quite understand why it has become so "wrong" for the Society to have had mines in the colonial period.

I look forward to the photos, and thank you for sharing! :icon_thumleft:
Wishing you all a very Merry Christmas,
Oroblanco
 

Hey Joe:
Kudos on your efforts to rid the mountains of so much worthless modern day litter.I hope that you gave the Mexican collector a "cut-rate price" on the fake Jesuit statue.

I am sure that,in the event that some government agency should wish to prosecute you and your team with some bogus charge of theft of antiquities and religious artifacts,that your storefront lawyer will utterly destroy the prosecution.

Armed with a briefcase full of irrefutable documents proving that Jesuit valuables did not and could not have ever existed in the America's,he will easily make a mockery of any claim that the authorities might make.If they should resurrect Dr. Olguin as a witness for the prosecution,your lawyer(in fact any paralegal with at least two hours of courtroom experience)could respond with an endless parade of acclaimed historians,archaeologists and best selling authors that would bring Dr. Olguin's credibility into the realm of quackery.

It will be a treat to follow the proceedings as witnesses testify that each and every one of the DeGrazia paintings are also worthless fakes,since they cannot be found in any catalogue of his works.Besides,"They do resemble those fake stone maps with Chuck's face on the "Priest",do they not,your Honor?".

Any suggestion that your environmental efforts to "pack it out" involves objects that are of greater age than fifty years can be effortlessly dispelled by the fact that no older object of Jesuit origin has ever been found within the area that could not be classified as phony by experts and therefore of more recent creation.

It'll be a ....."if the glove don't fit"......cakewalk.

Best Regards and Merry Christmas to all you fellow dreamers:SH.
 

Saturna,

"If gold weighs 1200 pounds/cubic foot and the statue was life-size, how could it weigh 34,250 pounds, which is approx. 28 cubic feet.

Were the priests giants?"

OK......If you don't believe that, would you believe 2,904.4 pounds? ::) Nice work, but what we have here is not a math problem. It's simply a Jesuit mission ruins and treasure problem. If you throw in the cave/mine, it just adds to the puzzle.

MISSIONRUINS.jpg


All that's left of this Jesuit mission built by Father Kino.

Take care,

Joe
 

Somehiker,

Nice to hear from you. I see it took a real Superstition treasure story to bring you out of the weeds.

"If they should resurrect Dr. Olguin as a witness for the prosecution,your lawyer(in fact any paralegal with at least two hours of courtroom experience)could respond with an endless parade of acclaimed historians,archaeologists and best selling authors that would bring Dr. Olguin's credibility into the realm of quackery."

I suspect that most will fail to recognize what a well turned comment that is. On the other hand, I would never call Dr. Olguin anything approaching quack.

Hope you are well and have a very MERY CHRISTMAS!!!

Take care,

Joe
 

Joe - would you care to name that mission church? (Or visita, as the case may be) Thank you in advance,
Roy ~ Oroblanco

PS Merry Christmas everyone! :thumbsup:
 

Good morning Joe:
"I suspect that most will fail to recognize what a well turned comment that is. On the other hand, I would never call Dr. Olguin anything approaching quack."
--that's why you might want to let the lawyers do the talking in this case-- :-X

No weeds in sight up here,just snow.I was hoping to do some hiking out there over Xmas,but both work and the arrival of less than ideal weather in AZ has made me postpone,for now,my next visit.The delay will give me more time for reading and planning though.
I doubt that I will have time to visit your mission ruins and cave-mine on this trip....perhaps the next....as I will be following a trail somewhere else out there.I really don't expect to find anything other than fresh air and sunshine,but that will be treasure to me.

Regards:SH
 

Hey Cactusj, if your above post is not a early April fools day joke, could you post photos of the bar Assymarks and any inscriptions on the statue and the cross. Where do you think the Jesuits were planning to display these gold church relics. Did you locate the molds used to cast the cross and statue.
 

Roy,

The name of the mission was, Nuestra Senora de los Remedios de Doagibubig. The real history of this mission has been sealed by the Vatican. Because of the extensive mining being done by the Jesuits, it became necessary to create a new history, and alter Father Kino's diary. It was also necessary to alter the diary of Juan Mateo Manje, found by Herbert Eugene Bolton around 1907. This, of course, was done by the highly talented Jesuit forgers in Mexico City, long before Bolton was born.

I can assure you that the picture I have posted shows the last remaining vestiges of Nuestra Senora de los Remedios de Doagibubig. You may take that to the bank, Sir.

Merry Christmas!

Joe
 

CJ,

Goodness - that sure jogs the memory (olds-timers, you know) - I had done a little reading on that place quite awhile ago, with some interesting information.

I know that there was an O'odham village (thats the Doágibubig), near the headwaters of the San Miguel River, and on March 15, 1687 that Kino and Aguilar went there and built a church, (and mined), and it is said there is remains of a refinerery (and arrastras) in the area. By the time they were ready to open the church, it was September, and he installed the statue of Nuestra Señora de los Remedios.

Construction lasted for quite a few years. (and eventually, became a visita when Father Keller established Suamca, and then, of course, Cocospera).

Thanks for the mind joggling.

B
 

Seasons greetings,

Re: Assayer's marks - I would not expect there to be any of them, as they would be found on legally mined bars and ingots, not those cast by monks which were intended to be smuggled out of the country. If assayer's marks were found, we would have new mysteries to unravel.

Cactusjumper wrote
The name of the mission was, Nuestra Senora de los Remedios de Doagibubig. The real history of this mission has been sealed by the Vatican. Because of the extensive mining being done by the Jesuits, it became <snip>
Click to expand...

That is interesting, especially as Father Kino's notes place this mission a day's travel from his church in Dolores <now I have to check, I may have this incorrect> - which could be a falsification.

Thank you, and I wish you and everyone reading here a very Merry Christmas!
Oroblanco
 

What a C O I N C I D E N C E Joe, It just so happens that the records of that smelting are buried in Nana's secret cave. They were brought from the Mesa del Campanero where the father had his smelting operation set up for the huge castings, it was a stupendous achievement. The individual moulds are buried in the main deposit at Tayopa, along with the records of the recovery from the cave in the Superstitions and subsequent sale in Mexico. We must get ORO going to recover them for proof.

Don Jose de La Mancha

p.s. evening Beth Roy.
 

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