JESUIT TREASURES - ARE THEY REAL?

[Oroblanco]

Gollum wrote

.....also, I welcome ANY comments on the subject at hand, whether they be positive or negative. EVERYBODY is allowed to believe whatever they wish.

I would prefer that comments (whether positive or negative) have a point rather than just disagreeing with the opposing view to yours.

and Yammy Elf <aka SWR> wrote

ghostdog...I know a guy....that knows a guy, that could probably validate this story.

I can't really say who that guy is...that knows the other guy...but, because I know the one guy...it has to be true!

Well, Mike, you did ask for it.
MERRY CHRISTMAS to you all!
Oroblanco

 

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[Oroblanco]

Yammy Elf - has anything of what has been posted, affected your opinion to change, viz Jesuit treasures and/or mining? Thank you in advance and wishing you and yours a very Merry Christmas!
Oroblanco

 

[cactusjumper]

G.D.,

What you write is quite true. The picture could have been taken anywhere.

In this case, it is a picture of what is left of Nuestra Senora de los Remedios de Doagibubig. Now if you are a betting man, I would be happy to make a modest or heavy bet, and provide the proof that will win me the money. It is a fact that Remedios never had a resident priest, but was always a visita. The picture I posted was taken from the campo santo.

I will post pictures in my own time. I would prefer convincing the doubters with details of my story first. Faked pictures are a dime a dozen these days, so they would mean nothing. If you are not very familiar with the history and legends of the Superstition Mountains, the Jesuits and their missions, this story will leave you in the dust of some sleepy little ghost town.

Beth, who had read Manje's diary, did not need to Google "Nuestra Senora de los Remedios de Doagibubig", to have her memory jogged. My guess is that she was one of the very few who knew of its history, if anyone did. Much of that history is true, just not next to Cocospera. Take the statue.........

You are welcome to believe me, or not. I suspect, that some here already know the truth.

Merry Christmas,

Joe

 

[cactusjumper]

Roy,

"Cactusjumper, I would not post any photos unless it is long enough that the statute of limitations has expired."

My friend, it's just a story. On the other hand, I will take bets on that picture being the real McCoy, from anyone. It may be, that someone here has seen that wall before.

Our family in Oklahoma is getting pasted tonight. Believe it's heading your way, or already there.

Better get those dogs hooked up in their traces.

Merry Christmas,

Joe

 

[Oroblanco]

We are having another arctic blast here,

the temp outside is a toasty 2 above zero with a lovely north breeze of 20mph to keep us from getting overheated,

even the Huskies were ready to give it up today after a couple of hours.

I hope you are warm and comfy, and I look forward to your posts!
Merry Christmas Joe and everyone,
Oroblanco

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Hi Joe: you posted -->

It's not the eggnog, but what Don Jose adds to it.

I hope he doesn't take offense.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

---------------5th----------------- Joe, I won't even tell you what ORO's coffee has in it for it's unique flavor. Just drink it and enjoy.

As for offense?? Why Joe?? Did someone say something about me that was true? Sniffff

sky rockets and shooting going on all around us, and we have no legal arms? he he he

Viva Mexico y La Tayopa.

Don Jose de La Mancha

P.S. Those Adobe brick were cast in moulds, & sun dried.

 

[Oroblanco]

Don Jose', Dueno de Teopa Minas wrote

what ORO's coffee has in it for it's unique flavor

Had to quit the Nap brandy, <meds won't allow it> but can sure add it for friends!
Merry Christmas!
Oroblanco

 

[mrs.oroblanco]

Yea, now he's thinking about Jose's eggnog!!!

B

 

[cactusjumper]

Ye of little faith,

The final Jesuit in the Superstitions, was Father Carlos Rojas in 1766. Father Rojas was appointed visitador general in 1763. Said to be too ill to perform those duties for the first two years, In reality he was spending 1763 and 1764 supervising the storing of church treasures and the closing/hiding of all mines in the Superstitions. In 1765 he finally took up his duties as visitador general.

As usual, the king's plans were no secret to the Vatican. The king's codes and cyphers were the laughingstock of Europe. Source: "THE CODE BOOK" by Simon Singh. It had become obvious that the Jesuits tenure in the New World was coming to an end.

While Father Rojas was in the Superstitions, he began work on the Stone Maps. When he returned to Arizpe, the maps went with him to be hidden in the church. Years later, they were taken from the church for safety and while in transit were stolen. They were taken to Texas where they ended up in the hands of "Pegleg" Tumlinson, father of Travis Tumlinson, who claimed he found them just outside of the Superstitions.

The Jesuit who "covered" for Father Rojas, while he closed down the mines in the Superstitions was Father Bartolome Saenz. He kept things running smoothly at Arizpe.

Much of this is easily found in historical documents, except for the Jesuit mining in the Superstitions. Even with his connections, I doubt even Lamar could reach this level in the Vatican Archives.

In this business, it's not so much what you know, as who you know.

Merry Christmas,

Joe

 

[Oroblanco]

Merry Christmas,

Cactusjumper wrote

he began work on the Stone Maps

The same Peralta Stones of our many and contentious discussions? Quite a story.

Cactusjumper also wrote

In this business, it's not so much what you know, as who you know.

Hmm. I don't quite get this conclusion, must be I don't know the "right" people.

Oroblanco

 

[cactusjumper]

Roy,

"The same Peralta Stones of our many and contentious discussions? Quite a story."

There is considerable evidence tying Father Rojas to the Stone Maps. I am not the only one who has come across that evidence.

Merry Christmas,

Joe

 

[Oroblanco]

Roy,

"The same Peralta Stones of our many and contentious discussions? Quite a story."

There is considerable evidence tying Father Rojas to the Stone Maps. I am not the only one who has come across that evidence.

Merry Christmas,

Joe

Merry Christmas to you (and everyone reading) - and while I have no desire to derail the thread here into yet another Peralta stones tussle, wouldn't the findings of Desert Arch. Inc be a problem in making that link? They fairly well pointed to a 20th century origin, rather than 18th century. Thank you in advance,
Roy ~ Oroblanco

 

[Ritchie]

Roy,

"The same Peralta Stones of our many and contentious discussions? Quite a story."

There is considerable evidence tying Father Rojas to the Stone Maps. I am not the only one who has come across that evidence.

Merry Christmas,

Joe

Merry Christmas to you (and everyone reading) - and while I have no desire to derail the thread here into yet another Peralta stones tussle, wouldn't the findings of Desert Arch. Inc be a problem in making that link? They fairly well pointed to a 20th century origin, rather than 18th century. Thank you in advance,
Roy ~ Oroblanco

Roy,

Shame on you! You’re going to have him back stepping and eating crow. Don’t you know he only uses the Desert Archeology (Jenny Adams) quotes when he is promoting his DeGrazia/Aylor/Kollenborn created the stone maps theory?

He seems to be getting his "Who he knows" sources confused now.

Merry Christmas all!

 

[cactusjumper]

Roy,

"wouldn't the findings of Desert Arch. Inc be a problem in making that link?"

Some very respectable and knowledgeable Dutch Hunters have dismissed those findings. Criticisms abound, such as: "They only had the stones for a few hours", "unscientific examination", "not the original stones", unprofessional,.......etc.

As I said, "It's just a story". On the other hand, it wouldn't hurt to look into the history. After all, it concerns Jesuit treasure, so there's no telling where the trail might lead. By their very nature, a good Jesuit treasure story must blend truth with fiction. The trick in finding the treasure is separating the two.

Looks like little ritchie has lost interest in his bridge. Good to see his focus is back where it belongs.

Stay warm,

Joe

 

[cactusjumper]

Good morning Roy,

"I have no desire to derail the thread here into yet another Peralta stones tussle, wouldn't the findings of Desert Arch. Inc be a problem in making that link?"

The thread asks if Jesuit treasures are real. You could ask the same question of the Stone Maps. It seems to me, the two questions are very related. I have yet to throw in the Stone Crosses or the Latin Heart into my story.

Once you get all of those "artifacts", the matching topography, including caves and old mines mixed in, the known historical facts and era's along with the legends and unpublished stories, you have a new, believable treasure.

It's all in the history........Joseph Smith once said : "If they believe that (The Bible), they will believe this (The Book Of Mormon)".

At some point in time, someone will end up searching for that buried gold cross.....If they are smart.....it's a no brainer. In fact, someone is looking for it right now.

The statue, as you know, is historical fact. The details surrounding it have been changed to protect the truth. The more things change..........

Take care,

Joe

 

[BenThereDoneThat]

Joe

Why would the gold cross be left behind? I can think of quit a few reason's to leave no trace at all that there was anything ever there, leaving a buried artifact behind would only serve to start a new legend with one's name attached to it......Unless of course it was just an offering to the Mtn Gods saying thanks for all the other loot

Tim

 

[cactusjumper]

Tim,

All these questions just proves my point. As I said, it's a no brainer.

It takes a long time to remove a treasure of this size. Eventually someone will notice something going on. Once that happens, the pressure around the site becomes too intense. Time to close up shop for awhile, or forever.

Take care,

Joe

 

[cactusjumper]

Roy,

It seems obvious that the folks at Desert Arch. were not examining the original stones. Much of their opinions were based on the horse/priest stone. There is a reason why there was no picture like this one, of that particular stone:

The original horse/priest stone is the key to finding Jesuit treasure with the trail maps. Those who have solved the maps, like Azmula, would probably confirm that statement. They would all disagree with where I ended up. I prefer it that way.

Take care,

Joe

 

[mrs.oroblanco]

Goodness, Joe,

What happened to your picture? I have the same one, but it isn't nearly as wrecked! Did you crumble it up? (and where is the rest of it?)


Hope your holiday was Merry!


B

 

[cactusjumper]

Hi Beth,

This is the original picture, as it survived. What you have is a picture that has been "doctored" to make it more palatable for Dr. Glover's book. A quality photo was taken of the original, in the condition I have posted. Thomas sent me an eight by ten of that photo, which can be blown up to reveal greater detail.

Take care,

Joe