JESUIT TREASURES - ARE THEY REAL?

somehiker said:
Lime Kiln - Tumacácori National Historical Park (U.S. National Park Service)
Working With Adobe and Plaster - Tumacácori National Historical Park (U.S. National Park Service)
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Isn't it interesting how many lime kilns the Jesuits needed, for "building"?

ALTO MINES
These present an extensive development and have been very richly productive. The ground included was among the early discoveries of the Jesuits, who are said to have continued operations in their primitive and desultory way rather steadily for about 150 years. Their facilities for development, ore extraction and reduction were crude and ineffective. Drill steel and blasting powder were unknown. With rough iron bars they drilled to depths of several feet into the rocks large round holes several inches in diameter, which were filled with lime, plugged securely and water poured in. The swelling lime rent the rocks, and when thrown out of place they were broken further with hammers.
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<emphasis mine, not in the original text, a very ancient method of mining hard rock dating well past Roman times>

<Mines of Santa Cruz County, pt V>

Oroblanco

:coffee2: :coffee2: :coffee: :coffee2: :coffee2:
 

Hi oro. cafe? sorry but all that I have is some old sock coffee.

They also built fires at the face of the vein then threw liquids of various types to fracture the rock, then pried loose pieces off with crow bars. The fires incidentally, were useful for ventilating the mines, believe it or not. in fact almost mandatory.

I wonder who made this important discovery, and when ??

Oro, speaking of those large round holes, near Chinapas on the arroyo ??? don't remember the name but under the mail trail, at some time in the past the mountain had given away with a land slide covering the lower areas with a flow a few hundred feet thick and had effectively consolidated - hardened - to where it was worked with tunnels looking for gold or silver disemated in the rubble.

They used that technique for tunneling.

I was investigating one, when I saw in a hole in 'top' of the tunnel where I saw one of the biggest, fattest, Toad that I have ever seen sitting in it. . How did he manage to get up there?? I left him to his miniature kingdom.

Further in, where it had weathered and partially collapsed, I saw a football sized piece of almost pure silver/Galena, it sparkled beautifully. This type of thing was apparently what they were digging for.

I carried it out some 30 miles on top of my saddle, yep, it was heavy..

I sent it home with the vague idea of a future bank withdrawal, but my mother proudly donated it to one of the museums with my name. I never followed it up.

I would love ro return there with a good metal detector to work the walls.


P.S Arroyo Cruz
 

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As for antique written sources, fire-setting is first described by Diodorus Siculus in his Bibliotheca historica written about 60 BC, about methods of mining used in ancient Egyptian gold mines. The oldest traces of this method in Europe were found in southern France (département of Hérault) and date back to Copper Age.
Fire-setting - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 

Sodium silicate is the common name for compounds with the formula Na2(SiO2)nO. A well known member of this series is sodium metasilicate, Na2SiO3. Also known as waterglass or liquid glass, these materials are available in aqueous solution and in solid form. The pure compositions are colourless or white, but commercial samples are often greenish or blue owing to the presence of iron-containing impurities. A mixture of caustic soda, quartz sand, and water are prepared in a mixing tank, then fed into a reactor, where steam is introduced.
Concrete treated with a sodium silicate solution helps to significantly reduce porosity in most masonry products such as concrete, stucco, plasters. A chemical reaction occurs with the excess Ca(OH)2 (portlandite) present in the concrete that permanently binds the silicates with the surface making them far more durable and water repellent.

Sodium silicate with additives was injected into the ground in order to harden it and thereby to prevent further leakage of highly radioactive water from the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant in Japan.

Have you ever wondered how your great-grandparents stored eggs? Perhaps they didn't, perhaps they used only fresh eggs. But many folks regularly stored their eggs and used them throughout the winter months. The first method is to coat the eggs with a non-toxic substance, sealing the pores in the shell and thereby sealing out oxygen and moisture. When oxygen is present, many bacteria can grow, thus spoiled eggs. The other way to keep eggs works on the same principle, the eggs are immersed in a solution of Liquid Sodium Silicate. Sodium silicate was used as an egg preservation agent through the early 20th century with large success. When fresh eggs are immersed in it, bacteria which cause the eggs to spoil are kept out and water is kept in. Eggs can be kept fresh using this method for up to five months. When boiling eggs preserved this way, it is well advised to pin-prick the egg to allow steam to escape because the shell is no longer porous. This is why the Old Spanish used egg shells because they were coated with Sodium silicate.
An egg shell is made of calcium carbonate, which is also the main ingredient in some antacids. Each medium sized egg shell has about 750-800 mgs of calcium.

Method the Spanish used:
Pulverize dried egg shells that have been preserved with Sodium Silicate with a mortar and pestle then add to concrete mix (acts as a binder). After the concrete is cured paint waterglass (which was white) that the eggs were stored in on the concrete. Now you have a waterproof concrete that is extremely hard.

Sodium silicate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 

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I found this looking at Spanish Shipwrecks on Padre Island. Was wondering if this has been validated? I find no other source for the information.
Re: Jesuit Code Book ?- A Standard of the Kings Codes ? Post Number:#264
Post by: strackjoseph Tue Mar 11, 2014 3:25 am

I've been treasure hunting for 51 years......20 of those years was in colo. The rest has been it Ariz. If it wasn't for C.Kenworth books .....Yes I got them all... Ive got Mike Picketts also ....not to mention many many more. I didn't really get in to Spanish treasures.....till 1986 , With C . K . books I've found a fine treasure of 635 Bars of silver. As they say pick you'll partner wisely .....I'll leave at that ... In 1999 or 98 I also found the Guadalupe mine ....a lot of people think I am crazy and don't know what I am talking about. From the Molina Document I took photos of the area to prove the find ,the P.S.R. the doc. talks about I have a photo of it.not to mention many more photos of the mine it self and the area in and around it .The silver bars were found east of the mine a ridge over. The Purisima Concepcion Mine was found first everything as been taking out of it . The OPatas is still filled with treasure I haven't pin pointed the location yet but I know I am close say 200 varas . At this time its not a safe place to be ,in Jan. 2014 we found a snipers nest . found no weapon but found the ammo. in Nov 2013 my partner found where the sniper was living in a hi-cave . The lost Dutchman was found in 1978 by C.K. he took out 17 and a half million in Gold before forest sev. kick him out . The Iron door mine I,am surprised no body has found it ,with all the signs and symbols on those mountains ' you can't miss finding it. I've not tried to find it, I am not fit to try and tackle a trail up to it. thanks for you'll time it is time for bed.

Ancient Lost Treasures ? View topic - Jesuit Code Book ?- A Standard of the Kings Codes ?- Eight K
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This is what the USGS has to say about the canyon I posted pictures of post #2749 this thread.
Cox Canyon.PNG Mule Trails.jpg

National mineral assessment tract SB24 (Distal disseminated Ag-Au)
Tract SB24
Geographic region Southern Basin and Range
Deposit type Distal disseminated Ag-Au
Deposit age Mesozoic - Tertiary
Title Descriptive model of distal disseminated Ag-Au
Authors Dennis P. Cox
URL Distal disseminated Ag-Au
Source Developments in mineral deposit modeling
Estimators ; Church, D. Cox, L. Cox, Diggles, Force, Titley
Explained by Leslie J. Cox
On the choice of deposit models
Distal disseminated Ag-Au deposits form in sedimentary rocks distal to plutons. The deposits are somewhat similar to sediment-hosted Au deposits, but have significantly higher Ag grades and base-metal contents. They are associated with hypabyssal or subvolcanic intrusions. Arizona has at least two known distal disseminated Ag-Au deposits.
On the delineation of permissive tracts
The permissive tract was delineated by modifying the tracts for porphyry Cu deposits, and including Late Cretaceous to early Tertiary muscovite-garnet-bearing peraluminous granite and associated pegmatite (unit TKgm, Reynolds, 1988). We then outlined areas within that modified tract that are known to contain limestones and other carbonate rocks. The tract also includes all pertinent known mineral districts.
Important examples of this type of deposit
Two deposits in Arizona, Hardshell and Tombstone, are part of the grade and tonnage models (Cox and Singer, 1992), but both are below the median tonnage. Tombstone is classified as a distal disseminated Ag-Au deposit rather than as a polymetallic replacement deposit because it contains no massive replacement bodies and lacks a clear relationship to a plutonic contact. The Vekol district might be classified as distal disseminated Ag-Au, but it produced less than 100,000 metric tons of ore and is not a significant deposit.
On the numerical estimates made
Estimators thought that deposits of this type might be both commonly formed and readily concealed in Arizona, because they are low in sulfide content and relatively inconspicuous. This type of mineralization was not widely recognized as ore until the 1970s, because of its low-grade, disseminated nature. For the 50th percentile, estimators noted that the number of known distal-disseminated deposits is near that of polymetallic-replacement deposits: about 2 to 7. Therefore, some argued that there should be perhaps 4 to 10 total known plus undiscovered (the estimate for undiscovered polymetallic-replacement deposits at the 50th percentile is 3). For the 90th, 50th, 10th, 5th, and 1st percentiles, the team estimated 1, 2, 5, 7, and 10 or more deposits consistent with the grade and tonnage model of Cox and Singer (1992).
References
Cox, D.P., 1992, Descriptive model of distal disseminated Ag-Au, in Bliss, J.D., ed., Developments in mineral deposit modeling: U.S. Geological Survey Bulletin 2004, p. 19.
Cox, D.P., and Singer, D.A., 1992, Grade and tonnage model of distal disseminated Ag-Au, in Bliss, J.D., ed., Developments in mineral deposit modeling: U.S. Geological Survey Bulletin 2004, p. 20-22.
Reynolds, S.J., 1988, Geologic map of Arizona: Arizona Geological Survey Map 26, scale 1:1,000,000.
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then the other part of this tract
National mineral assessment Tract SB17 ( Porphyry Cu-Au )
Tract SB17
Geographic region Southern Basin and Range
Deposit type Porphyry Cu-Au
Deposit age Laramide
Title Descriptive model of porphyry Cu-Au
Authors Dennis P. Cox
URL Descriptive model of Porphyry Cu-Au
Source Mineral deposit models
Estimators; Carlson, Church, D. Cox, L. Cox, Diggles, Force, Guthrie, Kamilli. Kleinkopf, Richa
Explained by Leslie J. Cox and Michael F. Diggles
On the choice of deposit models
The rationale for the choice of the porphyry copper-gold model of Cox and Singer (1992) was based on our ability to identify characteristics in the known Arizona deposits that are unique to the porphyry Cu-Au deposit model and on our ability to distinguish a geologic setting for gold-rich porphyries that is different from the general porphyry-copper environment. It is argued that gold-rich porphyries tend to be associated with alkaline igneous rocks (Gilmour, 1982, Lowell, 1989). Wilt (1993), however, contends that gold-rich porphyry deposits occur in calc-alkaline settings as well, but possesses an oxidation state that is determined by the rocks through which the magma rises: the gold-poor porphyries are oxidized, whereas the gold-rich porphyries are weakly oxidized. Our estimates for undiscovered porphyry Cu-Au deposits were guided by Wilt's delineation of oxidized versus weakly oxidized calc-alkaline rocks in Arizona.
On the delineation of permissive tracts
The tract for porphyry copper-gold consists of all six of the general porphyry copper tracts for Arizona. The most favorable rocks consist of porphyritic igneous rocks of Laramide age in the Basin and Range and Transition Zone of Arizona and their interpreted geophysical extensions beneath cover. The team identified and excluded areas that would not be permissive for the occurrence of porphyry copper deposits because of parameters such as geologic setting, rock composition, and depth of cover.
Important examples of this type of deposit
Only a few of the many significant Arizona porphyry copper deposits are gold-rich: Dos Pobres (Langton and Williams, 1982), Ajo-New Cornelia (Hagstrom and others, 1987), and Sanchez. Of the three known deposits, all have tonnages below the median for the porphyry Cu-Au model (Singer and Cox, 1986).
On the numerical estimates made
Estimates for porphyry Cu-Au deposits were weighted toward areas characterized by weakly oxidized calc-alkaline intrusions as defined by ferric:ferrous ratios in unaltered plutons. In southwestern Arizona, the potential for Laramide Cu-Au porphyries in the identified weakly oxidized area is relatively small, because the shallow Laramide intrusions have been largely destroyed by erosion. This is indicated by the fact that volcanic rocks of Oligocene age rest unconformably upon eroded plutons of Laramide age. Only a small part of the tract is favorable for porphyry Cu-Au deposits.
The theory that porphyry Cu-Au deposits are emplaced close to the surface and should be situated within their associated volcanic rocks was considered and Laramide intrusions adjacent to volcanic rocks of the same age were examined. To arrive at estimates of undiscovered porphyry Cu-Au deposits, the team considered first the probability of there being zero deposits, the maximum number likely, and the most likely number. Using this estimation technique, the team reached a consensus of an expected value of about 1 undiscovered porphyry Cu-Au deposit. For the 90th, 50th, 10th, 5th, and 1st percentiles, the team estimated 0, 1, 2, 3, and 4 or more deposits consistent with the grade and tonnage model of Singer and Cox (1986).
References
Cox, D.P., and Singer, D.A., 1992, Distribution of gold in porphyry copper deposits, in DeYoung, J.H., Jr., and Hammarstrom, J.M., eds., Contributions to commodity geology research: U.S. Geological Survey Bulletin 1877, p. C1-C14.
Gilmour, Paul, 1982, Grades and tonnages of porphyry copper deposits in Titley, S.R., ed., Advances in geology of the porphyry copper deposits: Tucson, University of Arizona Press, p. 7-36.
Hagstrum, J.T., Cox, D.P., and Miller, R.J., l987, Structural reinterpretation of the Ajo Mining District, Pima County Arizona based on paleomagnetic and geochronologic studies: Economic Geology, v. 82, no. 4, p. l348-l36l.
Langton, J.M., and Williams, S.A., 1982, Structural petrological, and mineralogical controls for the Dos Pobres ore body, in Titley, S.R., ed., Advances in geology of the porphyry copper deposits, southwestern North America: Tucson, University of Arizona Press, p. 335-352.
Lowell, J.D., 1989, Gold mineralization in porphyry copper deposits discussed: Mining Engineering, v. 41, no. 4, p. 227-231.
Singer, D.A., and Cox, D.P., 1986, Grade and tonnage model of porphyry Cu-Au, in Cox, D.P., and Singer, D.A., eds., Mineral deposit models: U.S. Geological Survey Bulletin 1693, p. 110-114.
Wilt, J.C., 1993, Geochemical patterns of hydrothermal mineral deposits associated with calc-alkalic and alkali-calcic igneous rocks as evaluated with neural networks: Tucson, University of Arizona, Ph.D. dissertation, 721 p.
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It seems to me that Cumero District and Cox Canyon is the richest surface deposit in the state of Arizona. Would the Jesuits have noticed this? No where do I see in the written history of this canyon the use of mules on the high slopes yet I have shown pictures of the switchbacks high up on the hillside. The original name for this mine was the Chief Mine. Was that because it was held in trust by the Padres for the Indians? This means the Indians were working their own mine overseen by the padres, identical to the way that the US Government does the Indian today. (hold the money for us, but we never see any; I say this because I feel that the American Indians should have a legal claim to any monetarily valuable assets that may be related to the Jesuits or hidden by them) The other thing I noticed was the reference to the Purisma Concepcion in tract SB24.
GEOCHEMICAL SIGNATURES: Ag+Pb+Zn+Cu+Sb+As+Zn+Pb+Mn+Cu+Ag+Au+As+ Sb+Hg+Te; Mn introduced at Cove, Candelaria, and Star Pointer. Ag:Au ratios are highly variable: Candelaria 400:1; Taylor, 143:1; Tecoma, 60:1; Purisima Concepcion, 51:1; Hilltop, <2:1.
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Sailaway mi buddy (?) posted-->I feel that the American Indians should have a legal claim to any monetarily valuable assets that may be related to the Jesuits or hidden by them)
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Watch it Sailaway, watch it. :laughing7: :laughing7:
 

Aye, Aye Sir! I am not wanting to claim anything myself, just that if the money was held for the Indians then lost by the party who was holding it..... Just like if your bank lost your money you would expect it back when it was found?
 

aH sAILAWAY, BUT WHICH TRIBE IN A GIVEN AREA OF THE LAND, AND WHEN SHOULD THAT BE ? every area of land has had multi tribal owners, depending upon who was the strongest at the moment. There has been a constant war of succession / ownership for survival purposes.

I believe that the oldest remains found have been those of European characteristics who was wiped out by one of the future native American tribes tribes, so in essence, His ancestors own the mineral rights ME ???
 

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Too crazy for me….much of the lost or hidden treasures are from extremely wide geographic locations, mostly unrelated to the location of the finds/treasures……
It would seem the owner of the land has more right to anything found…...
 

doc-d said:
Too crazy for me….much of the lost or hidden treasures are from extremely wide geographic locations, mostly unrelated to the location of the finds/treasures……
It would seem the owner of the land has more right to anything found…...
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Current law seems to be increasingly favoring provable claims by the finds' original owners when challenged in court. As always, politics and money sways.
 

Being as there was more than one tribe involved then the proper Claimant should be:
National Congress of American Indians (NCAI)
Embassy of Tribal Nations
1516 P Street NW, Washington, DC 20005
Phone: (202) 466-7767, Fax: (202) 466-7797
The National Congress of American Indians, founded in 1944, is the oldest, largest and most representative American Indian and Alaska Native organization serving the broad interests of tribal governments and communities.
http://www.ncai.org/
I was only bringing the Indian point of view up because the Jesuits and the Catholic Church could file suit on found treasures. If that were to happen then the Indian Nations should file Claims against the Church, making them a party to the suit.

Anyone wanting to see ground photos of the Cox Gulch should look here:
Three R Mine, 15 Jan 2011
has good photos of the mines
 

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Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp said:
But, but the church has officially denied amy minng ?????? How can they have any claim ???
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........AND BINGO WAS HIS NAME-O!

Both the Jesuit Order and the Catholic Church have denied any involvement in mining activities in the area during Colonial Times. The proper thing to do would be to have an attorney ask the Pope and Jesuit General to sign a notarized affidavit stating that neither the Church nor the Jesuit Order were ever involved in any illegal mining activities during colonial times.

Bet they won't!

Mike
 

gollum said:
........AND BINGO WAS HIS NAME-O!

Both the Jesuit Order and the Catholic Church have denied any involvement in mining activities in the area during Colonial Times. The proper thing to do would be to have an attorney ask the Pope and Jesuit General to sign a notarized affidavit stating that neither the Church nor the Jesuit Order were ever involved in any illegal mining activities during colonial times.

Bet they won't!

Mike
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LOL @ the Catholic Church. What do you think their wealth is?
 

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