JESUIT TREASURES - ARE THEY REAL?

[John_Arizona]

When I posted this it was about the writing on the edge my version of the Molina Map. In my Thread I talked about the trick that is a puzzle still and am working on the clues. The last trip there I stood where the Mina Virgon de Guadelupe Mine is and was confused that it had all changed. There has been 44 earth tremors since the last time I was there 9 months before. There is a significant change in the mountain top.several areas have dropped. here is a new view that still does not show all the changes. but look behind the Indian and horse and you will see it has collapsed in. Second photo taken right on the Mina Virgon.
View attachment 1006169View attachment 1006224

I like the Spanish Galleon carved on the mountainside on your google earth photo. I know where one of those are carved on a mountain east of Queen Valley AZ

 

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[sailaway]

I like the Spanish Galleon carved on the mountainside on your google earth photo. I know where one of those are carved on a mountain east of Queen Valley AZ

Please show the location?

 

[sailaway]

Illuminati connection with the Freemasons
"a secret society within a secret society"

The Illuminati was started in 1776 as a Jesuit front by Adam Weishaupt, who was trained by Jesuits all his life (School, High School, University). His father was a professor at a Jesuit university. He would later become a professor of Roman Catholic canon law at that very same Jesuit university.
He allegedly 'broke ties' with the Jesuits and started the Illuminati. This is a lie, though. Weishaupt never broke all ties with the Jesuit order. His Jesuit superiors ordered him to separate himself from the order so that he could set up a front organization that would appear to be entirely separate from the order.
This front organization, the Illuminati, would be used to infiltrate Freemasonry and take the blame for Rome's crimes (The Illuminati did it!). An example of this is the French Revolution. Almost every leader of the revolution was Jesuit-trained, but people instead looked at the story of Lanz, an Illuminati courier who was struck by lightning when he was carrying a plan for the Revolution.
The job of the Illuminati is to take the blame for Jesuit crimes.. therefore, it cannot be linked in any way to the Jesuits.. that's why Jesuit Adam Weishaupt was ordered to pretend to leave the order.
Irrefutable evidence that Adam Weishaupt never broke ties with Rome comes from the Church itself. They admit that he was reconciled with the Roman Catholic Church on his deathbed.

The Illuminati - World Of The Wicked

General orders from the Jesuits?

Two simple FACTS to open your eyes about the JESUITS and how they are the REAL "Illuminati"
Fact #1
Rome, Maryland, was the original name of a community within Prince George's County, Maryland, which would eventually become Washington, District of Columbia. Specifically, Rome was the original community name of Capitol Hill, upon which the United States Capitol Building sits.
In 1663, the property that would become the Capitol's site was inscribed in the Maryland property records as “Rome,” its owner a man named Francis Pope. The southern boundary of this property was shaped by Tiber Creek named for the river that runs through Rome, Italy, the Tiber.
The community was part of the ten mile square tract of land which would become the American capital Washington, D.C., and its owner, Daniel Carroll, transferred the community to the federal government after the amendment to the United States Constitution sanctioning the building of the new United States capital city was ratified.
Daniel Carroll was the chairman of a three-man commission appointed by President George Washington to find a suitable location for the capital city. A signer of the Declaration of Independence, Daniel Carroll was a Roman Catholic educated by Jesuits in Maryland and France. His brother John Carroll became the first Catholic bishop in America, presiding over the See of Baltimore, which included Washington, D.C. John Carroll also founded Georgetown University.
Fact #2
Johann Adam Weishaupt (6 February 1748 – 18 November 1830) was a German philosopher and founder of the Order of Illuminati, a secret society with origins in Bavaria.
Adam Weishaupt was born on 6 February 1748 in Ingolstadt in the Electorate of Bavaria. Weishaupt's father Johann Georg Weishaupt (1717–1753) died when Adam was five years old. After his father's death he came under the tutelage of his godfather Johann Adam Freiherr von Ickstatt[6] who, like his father, was a professor of law at the University of Ingolstadt. Ickstatt was a proponent of the philosophy of Christian Wolff and of the Enlightenment, and he influenced the young Weishaupt with his rationalism. Weishaupt began his formal education at age seven at a Jesuit school. He later enrolled at the University of Ingolstadt and graduated in 1768 at age 20 with a doctorate of law.
The Lutheran movement took an early hold in Ingolstadt, but was quickly put to flight by one of the chief figures of the Counter-Reformation: Johann Eck, who made the university a bastion for the traditional Catholic faith in southern Germany. In Eck's wake, many Jesuits were appointed to key positions in the school, and the university, over most of the 17th century, gradually came fully under the control of the Jesuit order.
http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message2177909/pg1

The Rothschilds ROYAL PAPAL Knights Jesuit Controlled
http://vaticannewworldorder.blogspot....nwo.Internet j

 

[John_Arizona]

Please show the location?

View attachment 1007592 View attachment 1007593

Make sure you have Historical Imagery turned on, put the slide on 5/92

There are many images laid over the top of one another here.

Your Galleon

View attachment 1007598 View attachment 1007602

 

[sailaway]

Moravian Church
(Latin: Unitas Fratrum, meaning "Unity of the Brethren")
The Moravian Church was the first Protestant church. The Hussite movement that was to become the Moravian Church was started by Jan Hus in the late 14th century, in what is today the Czech Republic. Jan Hus rejected indulgences and adopted a doctrine of justification by grace through faith alone. Hus was summoned to attend the Council of Constance, which decided that he was a heretic and had him burned at the stake on 6 July 1415. Within fifty years of Hus' death, a contingent of his followers had become independently organised as the "Bohemian Brethren" (Čeští bratři) or Unity of the Brethren (Jednota bratrská), which was founded in Kunvald, Bohemia, in 1457. They received episcopal ordination through the Waldensians in 1467.These were some of the earliest Protestants, rebelling against Rome some fifty years before Martin Luther.
By the middle of the 16th century there was not a single town without a Protestant school in the Czech lands. In Jihlava, a principal Protestant center in Moravia, there were six schools: two Czech, two German, one for girls and one teaching in Latin, which was at the level of a high / grammar school, lecturing on Latin, Greek and Hebrew, Rhetorics, Dialectics, fundamentals of Philosophy and fine arts, as well as religion according to the Lutheran Augustana. With the University of Prague also firmly in hands of Protestants, the local Catholic church was unable to compete in the field of education. Therefore the Jesuits were invited, with the backing of the Catholic Habsburg rulers, to come to the Czech lands and establish a number of Catholic educational institutions, foremost the Academy in Prague and the Academy in Olomouc, Moravian capital.
Emperor Matthias sought to install the fiercely Catholic Ferdinand of Styria on the Bohemian throne, but in 1618 the Protestant Bohemian noblemen, who feared losing religious freedom, started the Bohemian Revolt. The Revolt was defeated in 1620 in the Battle of White Mountain. As consequence the local Protestant noblemen were either executed or expelled from the country while the Habsburgs placed Catholic (and mostly German speaking) nobility in their place. The Habsburgs not only suppressed Protestantism but also the Czech language: books written in Czech were burned and any publication in Czech was considered to be heresy by the Jesuits.

Jesuits shape country back to Catholicism? I think it is more than coincidence that the deciding battle was on White Mountain, just like the Battle that Geronimo fought. Dose White Mountain play an important part in the Battle of Good and Evil?
Ty John for pointing out that there was a drawn picture on the hillside. Welcome comments from others of new information on this area.

 

[gollum]

with all this knowledge, I would like to see the Jesuit Treasures you have found so far, to back up all your claims of what you have to say.

To back up ANY of my claims, all you have to do is read some on the subject. I never claimed to have broken the Jesuit Code like some others on this forum. You may have read SEVERAL times where I emphatically state that ANYBODY who claims to have discovered the secrets of the Jesuits is full of BS. I know way more than your average bear on the history and workings of the Jesuit Order. I haven't, and nobody I know has either (and I know many of the best and brightest in the field). We have found many clues. We know what some things mean. But, putting everything together has yet to be done by anybody that I know of. THOSE are my claims.

What have I claimed to have found? Ask anybody that knows me. They will tell you. If you know more than a few people that do this seriously, then you probably know at least one that knows me pretty well. The people that know me (and there are many), know what I have found. I don't need to prove myself to anybody (like you) that I don't know, and have nothing to do with. If you have an issue with anything I say, then you can just bounce your happy a$$ out of my thread and start one of your own. My bonafides are well known in this community. Read a book or two sometime.

Best - Mike

 

[sailaway]

The leader of the Jesuit Order, the Superior General, is commonly known as the "black pope" because of both his power and black vestments.
Such is the degree of loathing and suspicion that attaches to the Jesuits that some conspiracy theorists regard them as the ultimate puppetmasters, and some claim that the Illuminati and the Jesuits are the same thing.
The Jesuits, like the Knights Templar before them, were created by the Illuminati to infiltrate and destabilise Catholicism. Both orders were suppressed: the Templars permanently and the Jesuits for a few decades. The Jesuits, by the time they were reinstated, had been purged of virtually all traces of the Illuminati, although it is worth pointing out that in more recent times French Jesuit Pierre Teilhard de Chardin, in his theories concerning the Omega Point and Noosphere, independently created ideas that are not far distant from the tenets of Illumination, the religion of the Illuminati.
Illuminati Grand Master Adam Weishaupt was educated at the Jesuit College in Ingolstadt in Bavaria, and the Jesuits largely controlled the town's university. Some conspiracy theorists have therefore concluded that the Illuminati were the creation of Jesuits. Ingolstadt was in fact the headquarters of the Illuminati at that time, and many Jesuits were carrying out duties on behalf of the Illuminati. However, it should not be assumed that all Jesuits were in league with the Illuminati. For decades, the Vatican had been taking increasing control of the Jesuit Order and many if not most Jesuits were, by the late eighteenth century, entirely loyal to the Pope. The Order had, in effect, split into two separate factions. When the Order was suppressed it was so that it could be purged once and for all of all "undesirable" elements. Only when it was felt the task was complete - after more than a generation - was the Order reinstated. The Vatican had learned from the previous example of the Knights Templar and this time did they did not want to create any new martyrs or myths, so they did not eliminate the Order, but purified it.
Illumination: the Secret Religion - Illuminati Jesuits?

So who is pulling the Puppet Strings? Notice!Writing in red is in error? unless the Illuminati was operating before it was officially founded?

"The first man who, having enclosed a piece of ground, bethought himself of saying, 'This is mine', and found people simple enough to believe him, was the real founder of civil society. From how many crimes, wars and murders, from how many horrors and misfortunes might not any one have saved mankind, by pulling up the stakes, or filling up the ditch, and crying to his fellows: 'Beware of listening to this impostor; you are undone if you once forget that the fruits of the earth belong to us all, and the earth itself to nobody.'"
Jean-Jacques Rousseau

this is exactly why the Indians did not understand about land purchases. There is no way to own land as you can not take it with you when you die.The best you can be is a caretaker.

 

[gollum]

Sailaway,

First, this is not an Illuminati/Jesuit Conspiracy Thread.

Second, your source is flawed! How could the Jesuit Order have been "created by the Illuminati to infiltrate and destabilize the Catholic Church" when the Illuminati were created in 1776, and the Jesuits were formed in 1540 (236 years before the Illuminati)?

Mike

 

[cactusjumper]

Sailaway,

First, this is not an Illuminati/Jesuit Conspiracy Thread.

Second, your source is flawed! How could the Jesuit Order have been "created by the Illuminati to infiltrate and destabilize the Catholic Church" when the Illuminati were created in 1776, and the Jesuits were formed in 1540 (236 years before the Illuminati)?

Mike

Mike,

Glad to see you sticking to the facts. I was going to write something but figured, with my "tunnel vision" and all it would just draw more fire.

Take care,

Joe

 

[gollum]

well non the less, with all this sing song for many years.... seems to me that you would have some factual proof... anybody can talk the talk

I talk the talk, because I have walked the walk. I have spent the last twenty-odd years of my life researching libraries, archives, reading books, and learning to translate Colonial Spanish Documents (which involves learning to read several different types of handwriting (here's a bit of info):

A Primer on Spanish Colonial Paleography

and I have also spent an inordinate amount of time hiking and climbing in and around some of the most godforsaken places in the Southwestern US. The factual proof is tough sometimes. Some things that I have been told about by others, was told to me on the promise that I don't post anything publicly. Some things are directly related to a couple of ongoing projects that I just won't share. The one thing that EVERYBODY who knows me knows, is that I don't lie or make up things to look important. I tell it exactly how it is. I have done enough real things to have campfire stories for the rest of my life. HAHAHA

Do I have some factual evidence? Yes. Some of what I have has already been shared in the 153 (so far) pages of this thread. Will I share everything I know online? No. Sorry. If you see pie in the sky carvings that are only visible in satellite pics, then I am not the guy you want to talk to. The Spanish/Jesuits did not have satellites or aircraft. If your signs/symbols can be seen from the ground, then I might be able to help. One of these is Spanish, and one is Jesuit:



Mike

 

[gollum]

Mike,

Glad to see you sticking to the facts. I was going to write something but figured, with my "tunnel vision" and all it would just draw more fire.

Take care,

Joe

HAHAHA When I said tunnel vision, I meant your always wanting to look at just Pimeria Alta. You can't make any judgements on the Jesuits by just looking at one small piece of land. Since the Order is worldwide, their higher ups think on a much grander scale than Pimeria Alta. In order to get a good handle on how the Order thinks and works, you have to look at them globally. The Order had individual agreements with the monarchs of Spain, England, France, Portugal, Japan, China, Parma, Russia, Prussia, etc, etc, etc. To their way of thinking, both the Order and the Catholic Church was larger and more important than any single country. After all, they both served God and not some mortal man/woman that claimed divine right.



Sailaway,

Also, since the Jesuit Order was dissolved by the Pope in 1773, how could they destabilize the Catholic Church? The Catholic Church did not recognize the Jesuits as an Order.


Mike

 

[cactusjumper]

HAHAHA When I said tunnel vision, I meant your always wanting to look at just Pimeria Alta. You can't make any judgements on the Jesuits by just looking at one small piece of land. Since the Order is worldwide, their higher ups think on a much grander scale than Pimeria Alta. In order to get a good handle on how the Order thinks and works, you have to look at them globally. The Order had individual agreements with the monarchs of Spain, England, France, Portugal, Japan, China, Parma, Russia, Prussia, etc, etc, etc. To their way of thinking, both the Order and the Catholic Church was larger and more important than any single country. After all, they both served God and not some mortal man/woman that claimed divine right.



Sailaway,

Also, since the Jesuit Order was dissolved by the Pope in 1773, how could they destabilize the Catholic Church? The Catholic Church did not recognize the Jesuits as an Order.


Mike

Mike,

Not true, I only want to debate Jesuit mining in "Pimeria Alta." I have looked at a much more complete history of the order.....Pro and Con.

Take care,

Joe

 

[gollum]

Mike,

Not true, I only want to debate Jesuit mining in "Pimeria Alta." I have looked at a much more complete history of the order.....Pro and Con.

Take care,

Joe

But Joe,

To understand if and why the Jesuits would stick to their agreement with the King of Spain, you also have to look at how they abided by their agreements with the rulers of all the other countries where they evangelized. If I find they stuck to the letter of the law in those countries, then I give them the benefit of the doubt that they did so in Pimeria Alta as well. If I find that they tried to subvert rulers and governments in those other countries, then there is much reason to assume that they acted the same way here. If there was a huge paper trail that detailed all their actions, then it would be possible to make assertive statements about the Order. What we have though, are big empty places in our knowledge of the Order at the time. We also have directives to all the Missionary Priests to both encode letters and destroy them after. Two VERY suspicious Precepts.

Mike

 

[cactusjumper]

But Joe,

To understand if and why the Jesuits would stick to their agreement with the King of Spain, you also have to look at how they abided by their agreements with the rulers of all the other countries where they evangelized. If I find they stuck to the letter of the law in those countries, then I give them the benefit of the doubt that they did so in Pimeria Alta as well. If I find that they tried to subvert rulers and governments in those other countries, then there is much reason to assume that they acted the same way here. If there was a huge paper trail that detailed all their actions, then it would be possible to make assertive statements about the Order. What we have though, are big empty places in our knowledge of the Order at the time. We also have directives to all the Missionary Priests to both encode letters and destroy them after. Two VERY suspicious Precepts.

Mike

Mike,

Do you include China in the above highlighted statement?

Thanks,

Joe

 

[lgadbois]

Originally Posted by sailaway
"When I posted this it was about the writing on the edge my version of the Molina Map. In my Thread I talked about the trick that is a puzzle still and am working on the clues. The last trip there I stood where the Mina Virgon de Guadelupe Mine is and was confused that it had all changed. There has been 44 earth tremors since the last time I was there 9 months before. There is a significant change in the mountain top.several areas have dropped. here is a new view that still does not show all the changes. but look behind the Indian and horse and you will see it has collapsed in. Second photo taken right on the Mina Virgon.
Attachment 1006169Attachment 1006224"

Sorry sailaway, the Google Earth photos are of a location not described by the Molina Derrotero. The mine described in the Molina is at Camp Loco in Javelina Canyon.

 

[sailaway]

Sailaway,

First, this is not an Illuminati/Jesuit Conspiracy Thread.

Second, your source is flawed! How could the Jesuit Order have been "created by the Illuminati to infiltrate and destabilize the Catholic Church" when the Illuminati were created in 1776, and the Jesuits were formed in 1540 (236 years before the Illuminati)?

Mike

Adam Weishaupt allegedly 'broke ties' with the Jesuits and started the Illuminati. The post was about what the Jesuits were up to at the time we are looking at so I believe that it is relevant?
After rereading I finally found post #2288 in which you are referring. Ty Mike for pointing it out! Just trying to gather up as much about the Jesuits as I can, yet is it possible we are misinformed about the Illuminati? Let us revisit a post of mine and look at the dates.

TNET Post #2244
The Neopian Stele (also known as the Nestorian Stone, Nestorian Monument, or Nestorian Tablet) is a Tang Chinese stele erected in January 7, 781 at the imperial capital city of Chang’an,and the content was composed by the Nestorian monk, Jingjing, that documents 150 years of history of early Christianity in China. The heading on the stone, which is in Chinese, means Memorial of the Propagation in China of the Luminous Religion from Daqin. Daqin being the Chinese language term for the Roman Empire in the 1st and 2nd centuries AD

 

[sailaway]

Sorry sailaway, the Google Earth photos are of a location not described by the Molina Derrotero. The mine described in the Molina is at Camp Loco in Javelina Canyon. [/I]

Can you prove that? and besides there were 3 mines mentioned.

 

[gollum]

Mike,

Do you include China in the above highlighted statement?

Thanks,

Joe

Of course I do, but not JUST China. Look at what happened in China, Japan, Portugal, France, Spain, etc. The Jesuit Order is/was global. What they do/did everywhere casts a light on them as a whole. Evangelizing and spreading the word of God to the heathen masses, was just one part of their global plan. Exploration, Mapping the world, Furthering Science, becoming wealthy and powerful as an Order, inculcating themselves into society at the highest levels (Jesuits were the main confessors to most of the European Monarchy), and protecting what they saw as TRUE Catholicism from the Reformation (which severely limited the power and reach of the Church).


Mike

 

[Oroblanco]

Hola amigos;
This got to be pretty long winded, as usual for me, so I have to ask your indulgence again.

John_Arizona wrote

well non the less, with all this sing song for many years.... seems to me that you would have some factual proof... anybody can talk the talk

The question to "show what treasures you found" seems logical enough, but is it? If the treasures are found, what is left to hunt for? Wouldn't it be a real waste of time to go hunting for a treasure that was dug up and removed years ago?

Several impressive treasures HAVE been found, and posted here; the massive one found in Brazil even became a hot topic of discussion for lawyers around the world as to who or whom would be the legal owners as it was found on private property that formerly had been the Jesuits, but discovered by contractors tearing down the place. I have not seen anyone try to convert the values listed in that one to modern prices, but it would be huge. $$$$$$ Then there was the treasure found in a single Jesuit college in Spain - not in every college, just that one. Another was found in Sardengha, hidden in a cave, but in that case it was found by the govt and seized by them.

A Catholic study done on the wealth of the Jesuits as of the date of their expulsion from Mexico lists a LOT of property, not to mention their vast herds of livestock, their own ships, but this compiled list (it is online at JSTOR
http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.23...2&uid=70&uid=4&uid=3739256&sid=21104139849947 )

...includes a number of mines. What do silver mines produce? Silver right? And gold mines produce gold, correct? Where is the silver and gold produced by the known Jesuit mines? The Spanish were not able to find it, and there is no record of what happened to it. Then there are the "legends" of Jesuit mines in Pimeria, several of which were found and are NOT lost. These mines were mostly silver but a few gold as well. There is evidence of smelting and casting at several of the missions, so we know they were processing ores from mines. Where is the product of that smelting and mining? Not even the BELLS, which are pretty well known to have been made at the missions, can be found today! Not to mention the impressive silver altar and ornaments seen at San Xavier del Bac. So we are pretty certain that the Jesuits were mining and smelting metals, yet no one has found the metals they produced, to this day. We can point to several impressive treasures found at other Jesuit locations like the case in Brazil or the college in Spain etc which shows that the Jesuits did amass treasures and concealed them.

As has been pointed out, some treasure hunters are very close-mouthed about what (and where) they have found. There are good reasons for this too, like not wanting a court battle with some religious order or other claimants that might try to take treasures away from you. Also if the treasure hunter bent or broke the law(s) in getting a treasure out, they are not going to spout it on the internet about what they did.

This has been posted before, but you can literally stand in some of the old "legendary" Jesuit mines like the Salero for instance. The mine is a fact, and was rediscovered by treasure hunters over a century ago. Some of the mines were found, according to the sources, by following directions on Jesuit documents which were discovered at the old missions. I don't know how much more solid you can get. Would you go treasure hunting to find the lost Salero mine, knowing that it is NOT LOST? It was a lost, "legendary" Jesuit mine for a century or so.
http://wms.mytopo.com/wrap/netmapwr...4631,3495214&srs=EPSG:26912&format=image/jpeg

Salero, a lost Jesuit silver mine that was found in the 1800s and re-opened


A number of other mines were known and documented, that have never been found again. Anyway this is what is flawed about the question to see what is found - if it is found already, it is kind of pointless to search for it right? There is not an unlimited number of treasures and mines after all.

So we have "legends" of Jesuit treasures, a widespread pattern of the Order in amassing treasure and properties, not to mention open disobedience from the laws of Spain (and France, Portugal etc) clear evidence of smelting activities at several Jesuit (and also later Franciscan) missions, including the casting of BELLS, a string of silver mines in southern Arizona which the finders claimed they found by the aid of Jesuit documents, and not even ONE BELL to show for all that activity. Not to mention where oh where is that copper mine, which produced the copper used to cast those missing BELLS? Yes we know that the Spanish authorities searched for Jesuit treasures, with but little success, yet this supposedly great search apparently never occurred in Pimeria Alta at all. Plus if there were NO reason for the Spanish to be searching for Jesuit treasures, why would they have bothered?

The Jesuits were evening producing COINS, by permission of the Spanish royal govt; these were to be made from the METALS THEY HAD OBTAINED IN THE AMERICAS and these coins became quite a scandal for they were below standards for the amount of precious metals the coins are (were) supposed to have. Now one might ask, how could the Jesuits be coining money, even with permission, if they had NO precious metals to make them from? The precious metal was not provided by the Spanish crown, it came from the Jesuits own operations!

Of course if this is not enough of a "smoking gun" for you, no one is going to force you to go hunt for Jesuit treasures either. You can always hit the local city park, and not have to spend time poring over old books, archives, Spanish documents or worse Jesuit documents written in Latin, which is part of what you have to do to have any chance at finding a treasure hidden by missionaries several centuries ago.

Joe - I realize your desire to focus on Jesuit activities in Pimeria Alta ONLY, yet then we would have to dismiss the eyewitness testimony of your favorite source for what he saw of the infamous expulsion and ensuing search for treasures, which occurred not in Arizona or Sonora but more likely Mexico city. As our mutual amigo Mike has pointed out, the Society of Jesus was not operating in complete isolation at any place they were working; in fact even in rather remote little visita churches the padres had managed to import valuable paintings to decorate them, from China or possibly even Japan. Also, almost everywhere the Jesuits did operate, whether in Mexico, Bolivia, Brazil, Argentina, Quebec, Louisiana, even Goa and the Philippines, there are also "legends" of Jesuit treasures and/or mines. Not in every place, but a good many, and these "stories" are not identical either, except in the cast of players being the padres and their lay brothers. The events of Pimeria Alta did not follow the exact same way that things played out in Baja nor in Mexico city or Panama, as with the "roundup" being more like a joke, the padres were simply sent word to come in, and they came in. We do not know how long it took for them to comply, and there is NO evidence that any kind of determined search was done at any of the missions (or visitas like Tumacacori, Calabasas, Arivaca etc) certainly not for months. The Franciscans did an inventory of the missions on their arrival in 1768, and they found very little of value left at any of the missions. Some obviously had been absconded with, but the rich ornamentation and decorations reported by Nentvig and Och at EVERY small and remote visita, were nowhere to be seen.

So where are the profits from the many business ventures of the Jesuits, from cattle ranching to sugar refining and mining? What about the copper bells? We know that the bells cast at Tayopa became famous, one ending up in Alaska and were known to contain a rather good amount of silver along with the copper. Clearly bells were being cast at Guevavi and Tumacacori, yet where are those bells? Why is there NO mention of any such activity by the Franciscans, if they were the men responsible?

Good luck and good hunting amigos, I hope you find the treasures that you seek.
Oroblanco

 

[gollum]

Roy,

Don't worry about proving anything to JohnAz. He was just pi$$ed at me for giving him crap in another post that the mods took down.

Mike