Jesse James Treasures: Do They Likely Still Exist?

[Ol' Kentuck]

Kentuck.. are you saying that JWJ's name was used as an IN back in the day?? For Many People... Same as history shows where many claimed to be JWJ or claim to be related to him even today. If that's the case I agree. Kentuck... Is there a lot of that out your way in Kentucky? ...Since the James and Cole family's have roots back there there before coming to Missouri, I just wondered how it is there.

People might disagree with me and that's fine, but I don't believe Jesse Woodson James of Kearney, MO was killed in St Joe, MO the way history tells it. That's not to say I believe the Dalton or Courtney claims, it's just after seeing the site in person, no possible way that bullet hole in the wall was made by a slug that hit anything hard first. I've seen too many slugs that made contact with bones.

There's also No Way he could of been everywhere and done everything claimed like Baker said. Someone here once said it sounded better to say they had been robbed by Jesse James than an unknown...lol! I agree.

According to the JWJ Family he was in Rulo, Nebraska recovering from a gunshot at the home of relatives of his stepfather Rueben Samuels before coming back to Kansas City for more recovery time with his mothers relatives since he couldn't stay at her home during that time.

Kace

Ye got tha right of it there, Kace. Jesse's name has been used fer a lot a things, as an IN is jest one of 'em. Been used fer that, an as a cover, an as a lure ta throw people off. An yer right, ain't no way he coulda done even half whats been said of him, even if'n he had lived a hunnerd years like that fraud Dalton claimed. Don't ye reckon if so many people was claimin ta be Jesse, that maybe some of 'em mighta been paid to? Seems ta me them rumors started sometime in the 30's. Take that there crosseyed feller in '37. Had jest been released from prison fer killin a man, if I'm 'memberin right. Spent a year in tha nuthouse fer it too I reckon. Who d'ya suppose would benefit from a whole passel of Jesse's runnin loose? Or jest tha suggestion that they was?

Kentucky's a good startin place fer rumors about Jesse, an tha KGC as well I reckon.

 

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[Kace]

Ye got tha right of it there, Kace. Jesse's name has been used fer a lot a things, as an IN is jest one of 'em. Been used fer that, an as a cover, an as a lure ta throw people off. An yer right, ain't no way he coulda done even half whats been said of him, even if'n he had lived a hunnerd years like that fraud Dalton claimed. Don't ye reckon if so many people was claimin ta be Jesse, that maybe some of 'em mighta been paid to? Seems ta me them rumors started sometime in the 30's. Take that there crosseyed feller in '37. Had jest been released from prison fer killin a man, if I'm 'memberin right. Spent a year in tha nuthouse fer it too I reckon. Who d'ya suppose would benefit from a whole passel of Jesse's runnin loose? Or jest tha suggestion that they was?

Kentucky's a good startin place fer rumors about Jesse, an tha KGC as well I reckon.

Well... it's sure not a secret that since Jesse James got his first headlines and with John Newman Edwards publishing his accounts and stories that were picked up around the country, all kinds of folks have latched on to his name for attention and money...

I think you're talking about John James in the mental hospital, although Dalton was in too for his claims of being Billy the Kid, Frank Dalton (Lawman) and he used John James witnesses, stories and affidavits for himself courtesy of Orvus Lee Houk aka Jesse James lll aka Jesse Lee James aka...aka..aka all for money and attention.

I doubt that stuff will ever stop as long as folks think they can get attention or sell a book.

Unfortunately, concerning DNA, after the 1902 JWJ exhumation and re burial in Kearney and the 2000 JFD exhumation fiasco and lies in Granbury and the court catching the lies prior to the JLC exhumation in Blevins...two of those are out for proof positive DNA and the 3rd attempt at exhumation will probably never happen although on JLC they do have DNA proving he was JLC without a doubt.

Now it just goes to what each person chooses to believe without DNA. In my opinion it's obvious who Isn't JWJ out of those three, but there's always others besides them to be looked at.

Kace

 

[Rebel - KGC]

You know I just laughed out loud when I read "MY B,S. IS IN PHYCHOLOGY" LMAO

Heh...

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Ye got tha right of it there, Kace. Jesse's name has been used fer a lot a things, as an IN is jest one of 'em. Been used fer that, an as a cover, an as a lure ta throw people off. An yer right, ain't no way he coulda done even half whats been said of him, even if'n he had lived a hunnerd years like that fraud Dalton claimed. Don't ye reckon if so many people was claimin ta be Jesse, that maybe some of 'em mighta been paid to? Seems ta me them rumors started sometime in the 30's. Take that there crosseyed feller in '37. Had jest been released from prison fer killin a man, if I'm 'memberin right. Spent a year in tha nuthouse fer it too I reckon. Who d'ya suppose would benefit from a whole passel of Jesse's runnin loose? Or jest tha suggestion that they was?

Kentucky's a good startin place fer rumors about Jesse, an tha KGC as well I reckon.

Well, JJ had at least TWO "body doubles"; Dalton was one. With BODY DOUBLES "posing" as JJ... whole lotta shooting, robbing, and a' stealing going on!

 

[Kace]

Rebel...Remember Jeremiah James...The Great-Grandson of JM James in Kansas?

I saw part of a show with him on it the other day talking about how much he loooks like JWJ and how he can't get over the fact that he's Not related to JWJ... he's just a good old country boy.

I wish I new how to post the clip here that I saw...I thought about you when I saw it.

Kace

 

[Ol' Kentuck]

Well... it's sure not a secret that since Jesse James got his first headlines and with John Newman Edwards publishing his accounts and stories that were picked up around the country, all kinds of folks have latched on to his name for attention and money...

I think you're talking about John James in the mental hospital, although Dalton was in too for his claims of being Billy the Kid, Frank Dalton (Lawman) and he used John James witnesses, stories and affidavits for himself courtesy of Orvus Lee Houk aka Jesse James lll aka Jesse Lee James aka...aka..aka all for money and attention.

I doubt that stuff will ever stop as long as folks think they can get attention or sell a book.

Unfortunately, concerning DNA, after the 1902 JWJ exhumation and re burial in Kearney and the 2000 JFD exhumation fiasco and lies in Granbury and the court catching the lies prior to the JLC exhumation in Blevins...two of those are out for proof positive DNA and the 3rd attempt at exhumation will probably never happen although on JLC they do have DNA proving he was JLC without a doubt.

Now it just goes to what each person chooses to believe without DNA. In my opinion it's obvious who Isn't JWJ out of those three, but there's always others besides them to be looked at.

Kace

Yessir, thas tha one. Ol' Houk sure had his hand in a lot of pockets, and liked to stir the pot ta line his own, didn't he?

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Rebel...Remember Jeremiah James...The Great-Grandson of JM James in Kansas?

I saw part of a show with him on it the other day talking about how much he loooks like JWJ and how he can't get over the fact that he's Not related to JWJ... he's just a good old country boy.

I wish I new how to post the clip here that I saw...I thought about you when I saw it.

Kace

He MAY have been the other "Body Double" WITHOUT the missing middle finger part; MAY have been "playing" Jesse James, when JJ was murdered... NOT! SO! TY, Kace.

 

[Kace]

He MAY have been the other "Body Double" WITHOUT the missing middle finger part; MAY have been "playing" Jesse James, when JJ was murdered... NOT! SO! TY, Kace.

You could very well be right Reb...I can't get over the resemblance! Like us...He can't either!

You'll like the information and photos from the James farm I'll post. The ones that he, his mother and family had. They display and endorse these letters, which of course have his writings and photos and drawings that were made of JWJ and the family. JWJ had one made to stand by his coffin in the event he died from one of the gunshots he took to the chest. Very interesting stuff.

They also tell the story of when the Militia came to the farm. JWJ wasn't hung or dragged by the neck and his feet were not burned. He was whipped and beaten though. Dr Samuels was hung and dropped several times and Zerelda cut him down. JWJ helped her carry him into the house because neither would tell where Frank was.

If I can figure out how to post a clip of Jeremiah James talking about this for you I will.

It's all good stuff.

Kace

 

[L.C. BAKER]

If Jesse James Was in Northfield and headed back home...I completely agree.

He couldn't of worried about hiding a gunshot wound and the missing part of his middle finger too even if he darkened his hair or beard if he had one at that time...Too much of a chance getting recognized after the publicity of Northfield.

No doubt with family in Rulo and friends in Omaha, he spent time in Nebraska and it would have been a safe haven to him.

Kace

That would have been one hell of a long horseback ride with a gunshot wound for Frank either way. History, as it is written, claims the gang went North into Dakota Territory and then resurfaced in Nashville after that, but I believe logically that they would not have attempted to move farther from home and safety after being shot up by the townspeople. Supposedly, Jim, Cole and Bob Younger were also badly wounded in the shootout. The fact that Frank and Jesse separated from the others shortly after the robbery would make good sense if the Youngers and the others wanted to go North into Dakota for some odd reason. Jesse and Frank would have logically split off and headed home at that time. They definitely knew how to do some good field dressing on wounds or Frank would have bled out on the trip back. It is more likely that they got some help along the way from a friend or "Brother" perhaps. Who really knows for sure, unless you believe what is written and swallow it with a lump of sugar.

L.C.

 

[L.C. BAKER]

Well, JJ had at least TWO "body doubles"; Dalton was one. With BODY DOUBLES "posing" as JJ... whole lotta shooting, robbing, and a' stealing going on!

I believe this fella was the body double that was the most important to Jesse W. James.

 

[L.C. BAKER]

Have you seen this? https://strangeremains.com/2014/01/29/the-afterlife-of-american-outlaw-clell-miller/

L.C.

 

[Kace]

That would have been one hell of a long horseback ride with a gunshot wound for Frank either way. History, as it is written, claims the gang went North into Dakota Territory and then resurfaced in Nashville after that, but I believe logically that they would not have attempted to move farther from home and safety after being shot up by the townspeople. Supposedly, Jim, Cole and Bob Younger were also badly wounded in the shootout. The fact that Frank and Jesse separated from the others shortly after the robbery would make good sense if the Youngers and the others wanted to go North into Dakota for some odd reason. Jesse and Frank would have logically split off and headed home at that time. They definitely knew how to do some good field dressing on wounds or Frank would have bled out on the trip back. It is more likely that they got some help along the way from a friend or "Brother" perhaps. Who really knows for sure, unless you believe what is written and swallow it with a lump of sugar.

L.C.

Quick question...Are You meaning to say FRANK was shot?

Believe me I don't believe everything history says. We might be talking about two different times here.

I don't remember it definitely being determined that Frank and Jesse James were at Northfield. Cole Younger denied they were involved After being Baptised into the Church.

Give me a day or so to pull some records... I'm just not sure you and I aren't talking about two different times. I have a Dr's report and name somewhere and we can compare dates. Let's put a pin in this till I find that stuff, you might be right.

Kace

 

[Kace]

I believe this fella was the body double that was the most important to Jesse W. James.

View attachment 1631891

But...The question is Who is that? Before anyone says Charley Bigelow...Is there a photo or real documentation of anyone named Charles Bigelow during that time? That guy isn't missing the nub or top part of his middle finger either. Something happened.

There's a couple Bigelow graves in a Holt cemetery but his name as a son, father or brother isn't listed and they died on the same day.

I've not seen a live photo of a Charles or Charley Bigelow. I can check ancestry again and local papers.

Anyone got a live photo of someone named Charley Bigelow or Bigeloe?

Kace

 

[L.C. BAKER]

Granted it is eight years later and the man is dead, but I don't believe that is Jesse James.

Just my 2 cents - the conspiracy..lol

 

[Kace]

Have you seen this? https://strangeremains.com/2014/01/29/the-afterlife-of-american-outlaw-clell-miller/

L.C.

I have seen that.... honestly the reason I question it is due to Younger and the descriptions by town folks of the two guys that got away do not match Frank and Jesse James and Frank, after turning himself in wasn't charged with Northfield.

But...History does say that it was the James/Younger Gang.

Kace

 

[Kace]

View attachment 1631892 View attachment 1631893 Granted it is eight years later and the man is dead, but I don't believe that is Jesse James.

Just my 2 cents - the conspiracy..lol

Throw my .02 in too!...I don't believe it's him either...At All. lol!

Kace

 

[L.C. BAKER]

Quick question...Are You meaning to say FRANK was shot?

Believe me I don't believe everything history says. We might be talking about two different times here.

I don't remember it definitely being determined that Frank and Jesse James were at Northfield. Cole Younger denied they were involved After being Baptised into the Church.

Give me a day or so to pull some records... I'm just not sure you and I aren't talking about two different times. I have a Dr's report and name somewhere and we can compare dates. Let's put a pin in this till I find that stuff, you might be right.

Kace

I was going with the History channels version of the robbery..... https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/minnesotans-nearly-wipeout-the-james-younger-gang. I am open to anything you have, as I have my own doubts that they were there too. They had some help that would not have let them fail like that if you ask me, and it was out of their range. I believe their are many robberies that they say they did, that may have been somone else saying they were them or the people claimed it was them to hype up the excitement of the robbery. I am inclined to believe like you and Ol Kentuck that there were too many Jesse James back then in too many places. I have been to Minnisota and back in a car when we took Dad to the Mayo clinic. It is hard to imagine that they woud have made the trip on horseback with a wounded man, and they had to go another 60 miles south than we did.

L.C.

 

[Kace]

I was going with the History channels version of the robbery..... https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/minnesotans-nearly-wipeout-the-james-younger-gang. I am open to anything you have, as I have my own doubts that they were there too. They had some help that would not have let them fail like that if you ask me, and it was out of their range. I believe their are many robberies that they say they did, that may have been somone else saying they were them or the people claimed it was them to hype up the excitement of the robbery. I am inclined to believe like you and Ol Kentuck that there were too many Jesse James back then in too many places. I have been to Minnisota and back in a car when we took Dad to the Mayo clinic. It is hard to imagine that they woud have made the trip on horseback with a wounded man, and they had to go another 60 miles south than we did.

L.C.

I've made that trip too and it would be a bear of a journey on horseback. I'll get this stuff out and we can compare Dr.'s and Dates.

Have you ever seen a photo of a live Charley Bigelow? Any Real Documentation besides what's been regurgitated in books?

Kace

 

[L.C. BAKER]

I have seen that.... honestly the reason I question it is due to Younger and the descriptions by town folks of the two guys that got away do not match Frank and Jesse James and Frank, after turning himself in wasn't charged with Northfield.

But...History does say that it was the James/Younger Gang.

Kace

I felt the same about the Davies County robbery. The story is pretty flimsy as far a prooving it was Jesse and Frank, but the Davies County Bank makes good sense if they were settling an old debt for L. Enyart who lost everything for joining the Confederacy in the Civil War. The Davies County bank was who collected it all for the Union and threw his wife off the 1000+ acre farm, confiscated his livestock and burned his barns and fields. They also confiscated his slaves which were also considered a very large investment at that time.

L.C.

 

[L.C. BAKER]

I've made that trip too and it would be a bear of a journey on horseback. I'll get this stuff out and we can compare Dr.'s and Dates.

Have you ever seen a photo of a live Charley Bigelow? Any Real Documentation besides what's been regurgitated in books?

Kace

No, do you have one you could share?

Thanks, L.C.