Kace
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Here we are in Texas..About an hour or so south of Dallas in James L Courtney's/aka JWJ old Stomping Grounds...
I talked to one of the Texas members earlier, they were having a get together, so I don't know when they will post on JL Courtney of Texas. Doubt it will be tonight or early tomorrow.
The members that I am talking about have Great Stories and are just as curious as everyone else to Find Fact from fiction and who the Real Outlaw Jesse James was. Like me in MO, they are local to JLC home in TX. That doesn't mean they are convinced of JLC being JWJ, only that it's a good possibility that shouldn't be immediately discounted.
There is more than one member here that's familiar with James L Courtney, Betty Dorset Duke and local lore so hopefully someone (Helloooo Texas) from here can give First Hand info from descendants and local legend with verifiable information and land ownership facts for us all to see and discuss. The land is important for those of you who follow sign and maps, To tell if you think it's JWJ or not. If you research JLC, you will find sign that will ring bells with you as authentic or not and maybe help somewhat to decide what you think of JLC, in that regard. In my neck o the woods, I don't think everything there is JWJ...but is of the CW era, residents and the southern cause in different ways.
I've been researching James L Courtney which is who I was the least familiar with of the 3 men we are talking about here and is why I decided to do some research on HIM personally. I haven't read any of BDD's books so my input is from Highlights posted publicly from Her, research on him thru published accounts, documents, records and what I know about the Duke family from challenging the MO exhumation.
Betty Dorset Duke claims Jesse James is her gGrandfather that she knew as James Lafayette Courtney. As most know this has gotten ugly with the JWJ descendants who discount her claims. She has passed away but during her life she became very convinced of gGpa Courtney being JWJ and did extensive research to try and prove this. She really did a lot of genealogy research.
I'll get to my thoughts on that in a minute and maybe why when she published all of that, she was attacked. They are my thoughts only and made me think that opening the door publicly in that way gave much fodder for those who didn't agree with her regarding ggPa C being JWJ to challenge her, her beliefs and her claims. You guys can decide
It's going to be very easy to make our discussion about BDD and her claims and Not discuss JLC the person. He really did not publicly say he was JWJ too much. BDD has been challenged repeatedly for her claims after going against the JWJ' of MO descendants.
The JWJ of MO family has taken huge issue with her claims, it's been back and forth attacks and some have gotten too personal as far as going after the character of All concerned. During the MO exhumations everyone was civil but afterwards she challenged them hard. And they hit back hard....There are many accounts online of punches and counterpunches thrown. There are also public accessed documents confirming them.
BDD tried to get an exhumation of JLC and was denied. I'm not sure yet what that exhumation would have proven since of course she probably would of been proven to be his g-granddaughter but that didn't prove he was JWJ which is why it was denied. The Duke family from what I gather said the exhumation was denied them because of different names. We need to look into that more I think.
I'm going to TRY and stay away from BDD and make any input just about him, but it will be very hard to do since she has been point on him and it's more her claims than his, publicly anyway. I'm going to say right now I Know Without A Doubt I'll Bring Her Up Again, but I'll TRY NOT TO...TOO MUCH Anyway! lol!
There are records of JL Courtney and family that can be traced and researched going back to before the civil war. If you look at the Union Rolls, you will find him there. We Know Jesse James Was Confederate.
That in itself has been a big hurdle for me that I've not come across with my own genealogy research...My family were southern Confederates on both my paternal sides and mostly northern Union on my maternal grandmothers side. My maternal grandfathers side were out of the Lexington, MO area which is Lafayette County. (Remember that name). They were Confederate. My maternal grandmother was from the Westport, MO area but she descended from up north. Some were Union, some were Confederate. Her grandfather, father, brothers and brothers in law were also Masons. With all of that even, there was never a question in the Rolls, Genealogy Research or Family History and Stories who was on what side. It was documented as well as family records and stories.
I'm not well versed on how someone in the military could be on one side and officially documented during the Civil War and then change their name and location to something/somewhere else and be on the other side all during that time period.
I've never been in the military but I would guess that their experiences and accounts would differ depending on what side you were on. My own family that, including my grandfather, father, uncles,cousins and friends of all ages that I've talked to are all accounts specific to the time, place, branch and conflicts they were in. Someone here who knows more on that needs to jump in and let us know how you could be registered Union on the Rolls and Convincingly talk Confederate to other confederates. I suppose it could happen if you were a spy or made friends with a confederate soldier and parroted his experiences...I don't know.
Jump In CW historians and let us know one way or another.
This is why I think one reason BDD made herself a Big Target when claiming kinship to Jesse James;
When you research the Courtney Line that BDD posted, it's kinda confusing...there are a lot of twists and turns...not only does she claim being related to Jesse James but also Princess Diana, The Hilton's of Hilton Hotels and Clyde Barrow of Bonnie and Clyde Fame among other recognizable names. With Barrow she says that it was sometimes spelled different or a completely different name...I know that can happen with names. Add a letter, subtract a letter etc. She attracted skeptics like a moth to a flame with claiming so many questionable, but more importantly famed names.
This topic we are on right now is Who Was Jesse James, the same as BDD. When she went Public on her claim of her grandfather JLC, being JWJ, by including all of that other stuff Publicly that she said linked her to so many more notable or famous people it just took about a minute for the doubters to pounce. I don't have the interest or time to research the BDD family tree but it is understandable that people would question her motives regarding writing books.
So, if we can leave the personal opinions of BDD out and just research JLC, from what I've looked into so far it shouldn't be that hard to consider him as being JWJ or Not.
Keep in mind that the descendants of the James' in Kearney, The Duke Family and Meremac Caverns and Descendants of
J. Frank Dalton ALL Have Something To Gain By Discrediting Each Other...Lots of Dirty Laundry on this topic.
Looking Forward To Everyone's Research and Information on James Lafayette Courtney aka Jesse Woodson James.
Kace
I talked to one of the Texas members earlier, they were having a get together, so I don't know when they will post on JL Courtney of Texas. Doubt it will be tonight or early tomorrow.
The members that I am talking about have Great Stories and are just as curious as everyone else to Find Fact from fiction and who the Real Outlaw Jesse James was. Like me in MO, they are local to JLC home in TX. That doesn't mean they are convinced of JLC being JWJ, only that it's a good possibility that shouldn't be immediately discounted.
There is more than one member here that's familiar with James L Courtney, Betty Dorset Duke and local lore so hopefully someone (Helloooo Texas) from here can give First Hand info from descendants and local legend with verifiable information and land ownership facts for us all to see and discuss. The land is important for those of you who follow sign and maps, To tell if you think it's JWJ or not. If you research JLC, you will find sign that will ring bells with you as authentic or not and maybe help somewhat to decide what you think of JLC, in that regard. In my neck o the woods, I don't think everything there is JWJ...but is of the CW era, residents and the southern cause in different ways.
I've been researching James L Courtney which is who I was the least familiar with of the 3 men we are talking about here and is why I decided to do some research on HIM personally. I haven't read any of BDD's books so my input is from Highlights posted publicly from Her, research on him thru published accounts, documents, records and what I know about the Duke family from challenging the MO exhumation.
Betty Dorset Duke claims Jesse James is her gGrandfather that she knew as James Lafayette Courtney. As most know this has gotten ugly with the JWJ descendants who discount her claims. She has passed away but during her life she became very convinced of gGpa Courtney being JWJ and did extensive research to try and prove this. She really did a lot of genealogy research.
I'll get to my thoughts on that in a minute and maybe why when she published all of that, she was attacked. They are my thoughts only and made me think that opening the door publicly in that way gave much fodder for those who didn't agree with her regarding ggPa C being JWJ to challenge her, her beliefs and her claims. You guys can decide
It's going to be very easy to make our discussion about BDD and her claims and Not discuss JLC the person. He really did not publicly say he was JWJ too much. BDD has been challenged repeatedly for her claims after going against the JWJ' of MO descendants.
The JWJ of MO family has taken huge issue with her claims, it's been back and forth attacks and some have gotten too personal as far as going after the character of All concerned. During the MO exhumations everyone was civil but afterwards she challenged them hard. And they hit back hard....There are many accounts online of punches and counterpunches thrown. There are also public accessed documents confirming them.
BDD tried to get an exhumation of JLC and was denied. I'm not sure yet what that exhumation would have proven since of course she probably would of been proven to be his g-granddaughter but that didn't prove he was JWJ which is why it was denied. The Duke family from what I gather said the exhumation was denied them because of different names. We need to look into that more I think.
I'm going to TRY and stay away from BDD and make any input just about him, but it will be very hard to do since she has been point on him and it's more her claims than his, publicly anyway. I'm going to say right now I Know Without A Doubt I'll Bring Her Up Again, but I'll TRY NOT TO...TOO MUCH Anyway! lol!
There are records of JL Courtney and family that can be traced and researched going back to before the civil war. If you look at the Union Rolls, you will find him there. We Know Jesse James Was Confederate.
That in itself has been a big hurdle for me that I've not come across with my own genealogy research...My family were southern Confederates on both my paternal sides and mostly northern Union on my maternal grandmothers side. My maternal grandfathers side were out of the Lexington, MO area which is Lafayette County. (Remember that name). They were Confederate. My maternal grandmother was from the Westport, MO area but she descended from up north. Some were Union, some were Confederate. Her grandfather, father, brothers and brothers in law were also Masons. With all of that even, there was never a question in the Rolls, Genealogy Research or Family History and Stories who was on what side. It was documented as well as family records and stories.
I'm not well versed on how someone in the military could be on one side and officially documented during the Civil War and then change their name and location to something/somewhere else and be on the other side all during that time period.
I've never been in the military but I would guess that their experiences and accounts would differ depending on what side you were on. My own family that, including my grandfather, father, uncles,cousins and friends of all ages that I've talked to are all accounts specific to the time, place, branch and conflicts they were in. Someone here who knows more on that needs to jump in and let us know how you could be registered Union on the Rolls and Convincingly talk Confederate to other confederates. I suppose it could happen if you were a spy or made friends with a confederate soldier and parroted his experiences...I don't know.
Jump In CW historians and let us know one way or another.
This is why I think one reason BDD made herself a Big Target when claiming kinship to Jesse James;
When you research the Courtney Line that BDD posted, it's kinda confusing...there are a lot of twists and turns...not only does she claim being related to Jesse James but also Princess Diana, The Hilton's of Hilton Hotels and Clyde Barrow of Bonnie and Clyde Fame among other recognizable names. With Barrow she says that it was sometimes spelled different or a completely different name...I know that can happen with names. Add a letter, subtract a letter etc. She attracted skeptics like a moth to a flame with claiming so many questionable, but more importantly famed names.
This topic we are on right now is Who Was Jesse James, the same as BDD. When she went Public on her claim of her grandfather JLC, being JWJ, by including all of that other stuff Publicly that she said linked her to so many more notable or famous people it just took about a minute for the doubters to pounce. I don't have the interest or time to research the BDD family tree but it is understandable that people would question her motives regarding writing books.
So, if we can leave the personal opinions of BDD out and just research JLC, from what I've looked into so far it shouldn't be that hard to consider him as being JWJ or Not.
Keep in mind that the descendants of the James' in Kearney, The Duke Family and Meremac Caverns and Descendants of
J. Frank Dalton ALL Have Something To Gain By Discrediting Each Other...Lots of Dirty Laundry on this topic.
Looking Forward To Everyone's Research and Information on James Lafayette Courtney aka Jesse Woodson James.
Kace
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