Is the Pit Mine really the Lost Dutchman mine?

[Hal Croves]

Well then, I strongly suggest you contact the Tonto district manager and let them know that the "pit mine" is being severely exploited. I'm sure they'll get right on it and open up a full investigation on the matter.

Azblackbird,
For those involved I hope that you are correct.

 

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[markmar]

Ponchosportal

Don't exist any " Pit " mine registered in the SWA . So , you can call with the nickname " Pit " mine any known or unknown mine in the USA .
From what I have read , before become the Supes a wilderness area , the gov sent geologists to take samples for rich ore and they found nothing . So , what could prove the gov with an investigation ? How was stupid wrong ?

 

[Hal Croves]

I am tenured with the applicable law. They will follow up on the exploitation of the pit mine.

After so many years do you think that they would actually get anywhere with an investigation? Is there a statute of limitations on Federal theft? What is the exposure if caught, for those mining and for those in Gov. who turned a blind eye to it?
It just sounds like just another Superstition legend to be honest.
Can't charge a man for telling tall tales.
Or can you?
Thank in advance!

 

[Ponchosportal]

Ponchosportal

Don't exist any " Pit " mine registered in the SWA . So , you can call with the nickname " Pit " mine any known or unknown mine in the USA .
From what I have read , before become the Supes a wilderness area , the gov sent geologists to take samples for rich ore and they found nothing . So , what could prove the gov with an investigation ? How was stupid wrong ?[/QUOTE

Call the deposit anything you like ........... name doesn't matter. GOV being wrong in the past has not stopped them from doing what they believe is required by law now. In fact them being wrong in the past can formulate the basis for the decisions they intend to make. You and I both know that often times the decisions the GOV makes are stupid and wrong but that does not stop them from trying to correct their mistakes which often times makes things worse.

Good hunting,
Poncho

 

[azblackbird]

Don't exist any " Pit " mine registered in the SWA . So , you can call with the nickname " Pit " mine any known or unknown mine in the USA .
From what I have read , before become the Supes a wilderness area , the gov sent geologists to take samples for rich ore and they found nothing . So , what could prove the gov with an investigation ? How was stupid wrong ?

Hey, hey, hey... watch what you say. You can hurt somebody's feelings with talk like that.

 

[Ponchosportal]

After so many years do you think that they would actually get anywhere with an investigation? Is there a statute of limitations on Federal theft? What is the exposure if caught, for those mining and for those in Gov. who turned a blind eye to it?
It just sounds like just another Superstition legend to be honest.
Can't charge a man for telling tall tales.
Or can you?
Thank in advance!

There is no better reason to initiate an investigation than that federal FS employees may be involved. For me that would be the focus of the investigation.

 

[azblackbird]

There is no better reason to initiate an investigation than that federal FS employees may be involved. For me that would be the focus of the investigation.

Make sure to report back and let us know how that all works out.

 

[sgtfda]

The great Lost Dutchman Mine emptied and hauled off under everyone's nose. Now there is a movie.

 

[markmar]

Ponchosportal

Don't exist any " Pit " mine registered in the SWA . So , you can call with the nickname " Pit " mine any known or unknown mine in the USA .
From what I have read , before become the Supes a wilderness area , the gov sent geologists to take samples for rich ore and they found nothing . So , what could prove the gov with an investigation ? How was stupid wrong ?[/QUOTE

Call the deposit anything you like ........... name doesn't matter. GOV being wrong in the past has not stopped them from doing what they believe is required by law now. In fact them being wrong in the past can formulate the basis for the decisions they intend to make. You and I both know that often times the decisions the GOV makes are stupid and wrong but that does not stop them from trying to correct their mistakes which often times makes things worse.

Good hunting,
Poncho

If the gov want to correct their mistakes , have to change the rules of prospecting/mining in a wilderness area . I believe should be allowed the ancient method of mining ( without chemicals , explosives and motorized tools ) and if the ore would be carried outside of the wilderness area to be smelted with animals ,

 

[markmar]

The great Lost Dutchman Mine emptied and hauled off under everyone's nose. Now there is a movie.

Frank

I believe the Pit mine is not the LDM . In the same basin Bark marked another three places with the word " ORO " in his map . I have decrypted his map , and if you want I will post the result in the future .
But maybe I could be wrong .

 

[Hal Croves]

There is no better reason to initiate an investigation than that federal FS employees may be involved. For me that would be the focus of the investigation.

You know your shite. If there were a Fed employee involved, his or her turning states evidence for immunity or a plea would be the first goal. Once they had that, the rest would fall like dominos.

That's a huge if.

Personally, I think that if the story were true, those involved would have already been charged.
Which is why the story is nonsense.

 

[Ponchosportal]

You know your shite. If there were a Fed employee involved, his or her turning states evidence for immunity or a plea would be the first goal. Once they had that, the rest would fall like dominos.

That's a huge if.

Personally, I think that if the story were true, those involved would have already been charged.
Which is why the story is nonsense.

I have been reading here for more than the 11 years indicated (retired for 2 years now) and you have a tremendous ability Hal for reading between the lines and finding the truth (great research); your perspective is usually unique and more often than not correct. And, as you said earlier, for all of those involved I hope you are correct.

Thank you for your efforts and contributions to TN I have enjoyed them since you got here!
Poncho

 

[Hal Croves]

Ponchosportal,

11 years is a long time to follow a story, actually many stories. I was going to hold this one back because of the location and people involved but, now seems to be the time to share another "coincidence". It's a big one.

I hope this one leaves you laughing.

Notice of Mining Claim Location
2. Placer
3. The name and address of the locator is Gene Baker & Ron Feldman...
4. The name of the claim is Rafter B
5. The date of the location is 4/8/84

Map Of Mining Claim Location
1. The name of the claim is Rafter B.
2. The SW corner of the claim is xx feet in a southwesterly direction to a survey monument or permanent natural object described as Tortilla Flat.
3. Type of location monument is rocks.
4. The bearing and ........


The red arrow is pointing to the angled black rectangle, the Rafter B, Baker and Feldman's claim.

The green dotted circle, enclosing the carved "dot" is... well, it's very close to the Rafter B.
----
: )

Someone has been walking a trail to that "dot".

 

[Ponchosportal]

Hal Croves,

Can you tell me what the segmented line (fence?) located in the upper right and lower left quadrants (running diagonally) of the photo would be? I assume it is fencing? Runs just under your place-mark also.

Laughing in the sense that I am not surprised you have come up with this. I agree the trail(s) and hillside appears to have seen recent activity. I am sure there is a lot of "watch my left" type of activity (watch what I say not what I do or where I go).

People tend to pick their direction downhill differently when heavily burdened and a more direct route uphill when not. If a game/livestock trail I would suspect water towards the bottom of the photo.

Thanks in advance,
Poncho

 

[Hal Croves]

Hal Croves,

Can you tell me what the segmented line (fence?) located in the upper right and lower left quadrants (running diagonally) of the photo would be? I assume it is fencing? Runs just under your place-mark also.

Laughing in the sense that I am not surprised you have come up with this. I agree the trail(s) and hillside appears to have seen recent activity. I am sure there is a lot of "watch my left" type of activity (watch what I say not what I do or where I go).

People tend to pick their direction downhill differently when heavily burdened and a more direct route uphill when not. If a game/livestock trail I would suspect water towards the bottom of the photo.

Thanks in advance,
Poncho

Every time I write about what I see in GE imagery, I seem to attract criticism so, I will just make the location obvious.

My conclusion is, and this depends on my placement of the stones being correct (I think that I have a margin of error of about 50 to 75 feet), that the "dot" on the Horse Stone actually represents the source of the Rafter B claim.

Its location above the Rafter B placer claim would explain what Baker & Feldman were finding.
So, what exactly is this "source" of Rafter B?

That question can only be answered with a Treasure Trove Permit.

The blue rectangle is the Rafter B claim.
The white area the "dot" on the Horse Stone.


View attachment 1146268

 

[cactusjumper]

You know your shite. If there were a Fed employee involved, his or her turning states evidence for immunity or a plea would be the first goal. Once they had that, the rest would fall like dominos.

That's a huge if.

Personally, I think that if the story were true, those involved would have already been charged.
Which is why the story is nonsense.

Hal,

The story of the Pit Mine is pure conjecture. Having never been to the site, I have no personal knowledge of what took place there. Believe I have mentioned that before.

Good luck,

Joe

 

[Hal Croves]

Hal,

The story of the Pit Mine is pure conjecture. Having never been to the site, I have no personal knowledge of what took place there. Believe I have mentioned that before.

Good luck,

Joe

Cactusjumper,

Were you aware of the Rafter B claim?
If so, have you ever been to it?
And have you seen a sample of what was found?

 

[Azquester]

Hal, is that the site of the last treasure hunt?

Welcome to Dutch Hunter.com

 

[i am the horse]

Hal, is that the site of the last treasure hunt?

Welcome to Dutch Hunter.com

so let me get this straight. feldman found a spanish mine and felt he needed to write a book about it? was the thing played out or what?

 

[i am the horse]

Ponchosportal,

11 years is a long time to follow a story, actually many stories. I was going to hold this one back because of the location and people involved but, now seems to be the time to share another "coincidence". It's a big one.

I hope this one leaves you laughing.

Notice of Mining Claim Location
2. Placer
3. The name and address of the locator is Gene Baker & Ron Feldman...
4. The name of the claim is Rafter B
5. The date of the location is 4/8/84

Map Of Mining Claim Location
1. The name of the claim is Rafter B.
2. The SW corner of the claim is xx feet in a southwesterly direction to a survey monument or permanent natural object described as Tortilla Flat.
3. Type of location monument is rocks.
4. The bearing and ........


The red arrow is pointing to the angled black rectangle, the Rafter B, Baker and Feldman's claim.

The green dotted circle, enclosing the carved "dot" is... well, it's very close to the Rafter B.
----
: )

Someone has been walking a trail to that "dot".

are those closeups of the stones in the museumcause my pics of those stones dont look anything close to that horses arse