Indian massacre of miners working in 1823

[bigscoop]

Also, I might add, that the author even confirms that it was pure when he offers the estimated value of the cache in question.
So how did he know it was pure?

 

Amazon Forum Fav 👍

Family Maps of Hinds County, Mississippi, Deluxe Edition - Grab it through Amazon!

[Old Silver]

Because you don't have documented proof before your eyes because you fail to realize the stark differences being explained to you. Also, how much silver (weight) would it have taken to trade for $13'000 in jewels? And how in the world could such a trade be facilitated with ore or low grade dore bars? (The lower the grade the more bars/ore/weight required.) Hence, the trade could only have been facilitated with pure grade silver which due to "lack of efficient process" wasn't possible from the region in question during the period detailed in the time allotted. In other words, if that trade took place then it had to have taken place with refined SILVER!!!!!!!!!!!

What's being explained to me is contrary to what I'm seeing in recorded facts. In such cases, I take the recorded facts.
I have no way of knowing how much of Beale's ore would be worth $13,000. I'm guess they had it assayed when they got to St Louis, but I don't know. That's the only way I can think of of how they would know what $13,000 worth would be, but, I wasn't there, so...
It must have taken a lot of it to equal $13,000, because of the reason given for the trade - the save transportation. Sounds like quit a bit to me.
No, the trade didn't HAVE to be with refined silver, or gold.

 

[Old Silver]

Also, I might add, that the author even confirms that it was pure when he offers the estimated value of the cache in question.
So how did he know it was pure?

What value did he put on it? But it doesn't matter because the author wasn't TJB...wasn't on the expedition...hadn't cracked the code, so therefore couldn't have known if it were pure, or ore.

 

[Old Silver]

Also, how much silver (weight) would it have taken to trade for $13'000 in jewels? And how in the world could such a trade be facilitated with ore or low grade dore bars? (The lower the grade the more bars/ore/weight required.) Hence, the trade could only have been facilitated with pure grade silver which due to "lack of efficient process" wasn't possible from the region in question during the period detailed in the time allotted. In other words, if that trade took place then it had to have taken place with refined SILVER!!!!!!!!!!!

What makes you think it was silver traded for the jewels? The actual clear text says "In e_change to save transportation" The author added the words "for silver." Those two words are not in the actual decoded text. So the trade could have been for gold, we just don't know.

 

[TN_Guest1523]

What makes you think it was silver traded for the jewels? The actual clear text says "In e_change to save transportation" The author added the words "for silver." Those two words are not in the actual decoded text. So the trade could have been for gold, we just don't know.

I think you have moved into the realm of those who have more understanding here . lol

 

[TN_Guest1523]

I think you have moved into the realm of those who have more understanding here . lol

Some of what I like to do .

BTDTWELIEHUNDTEDATDEIGHTTEIGHTOFSILIERAISOTE
WELSOBTAINEDINSTTOUITINEFCHANGETOSBIS
TRANSPORTATIONATDIALUELAATHIRTEETRHOUSANDDOLLARS

 

[TN_Guest1523]

Some of what I like to do .

BTDTWELIEHUNDTEDATDEIGHTTEIGHTOFSILIERAISOTE
WELSOBTAINEDINSTTOUITINEFCHANGETOSBIS
TRANSPORTATIONATDIALUELAATHIRTEETRHOUSANDDOLLARS

Pure silver 32,000 dollars a ton at 1.00 dollar a oz, 2000 pound = a short ton

712 pounds less of 2000 pounds = 1288 pounds silver, 712 x 1.00 = 11,392 dollars so the price of silver he got was 1.14 per oz of pure silver, that is about the price of silver at the time.

So Beale had one short ton of Pure Silver and at 1.14 per oz he traded 712 pounds for jewels to save on transport .

Does this look right to you guys ?

 

[bigscoop]

And where did he get all that pure silver?
This is what you need to research "during the effected period." (Or as close to it as you can get.)
Until you do you'll forever being assuming something that just ain't so.

 

[bigscoop]

What makes you think it was silver traded for the jewels? The actual clear text says "In e_change to save transportation" The author added the words "for silver." Those two words are not in the actual decoded text. So the trade could have been for gold, we just don't know.

So glad you brought this up. Have you taken note that the "presented key" doesn't even work correctly for the "presented C2 clear text?" And you are so right, "it was all added by the pamphlet author."

 

[Old Silver]

And where did he get all that pure silver?
This is what you need to research "during the effected period." (Or as close to it as you can get.)
Until you do you'll forever being assuming something that just ain't so.

The question is, where do YOU get PURE silver? Where does the Beale paper call it that? You don't seem to be able to answer that question, though you keep making the claim. And you said something about assuming something that just ain't so?

If you could comprehend what I'm saying, you would see that the period of time has nothing to do with weight of gold ore. A ton in 1820 is the same weight as a ton in 1897. Spot price was also nearly the same, but that has nothing to do with how much ore could be taken out of a mine in a 2-3 year period.

 

[Old Silver]

So glad you brought this up. Have you taken note that the "presented key" doesn't even work correctly for the "presented C2 clear text?" And you are so right, "it was all added by the pamphlet author."

I don't think you're glad at all about me bringing that up, because it takes away what you were arguing about the silver.

 

[bigscoop]

I don't think you're glad at all about me bringing that up, because it takes away what you were arguing about the silver.

Not at all. Let me help you out a bit with the following link. And remember, this is speaking primarily of gold but silver was even more difficult. Note the references to the rate of loss being as high as 70%. Note the information in regards to hard rock mining, etc. On top of this also note that real advances in the separation/refining process didn't come around until about 1867, some 45 years past the alleged Beale mine. If after reading all of this basic information you still want to believe in the "alleged" mine and it's "alleged hugely successful operation" then so be it.
https://www.nps.gov/parkhistory/online_books/blm/co/16/chap6.htm

 

[Old Silver]

Not at all. Let me help you out a bit with the following link. And remember, this is speaking primarily of gold but silver was even more difficult. Note the references to the rate of loss being as high as 70%. Note the information in regards to hard rock mining, etc. On top of this also note that real advances in the separation/refining process didn't come around until about 1867, some 45 years past the alleged Beale mine. If after reading all of this basic information you still want to believe in the "alleged" mine and it's "alleged hugely successful operation" then so be it.
https://www.nps.gov/parkhistory/online_books/blm/co/16/chap6.htm

Northeast Colorado led the state's mining industry from 1860 until 1878 when Leadville was discovered. During this same period, the mountains were a continued major source of wealth for northeastern Colorado; not only for gold and silver but also thanks to goods and services local mining camps demanded. As in earlier years individuals who could not, or did not, succeed in mineral occupations left the hills in order to take jobs in other businesses, or to prospect in other parts of the state. Northeastern Colorado's mineral industry also permitted the creation of extremely successful men; "Bonanza Kings", rivalling famous "Cattle Barons". These events occurred when easily recoverable ores were exhausted and different methods were forced upon miners.

There was an earlier time when ores were easily recoverable? And then were exhausted? Surely not.

 

[Old Silver]

Northeast Colorado led the state's mining industry from 1860 until 1878 when Leadville was discovered. During this same period, the mountains were a continued major source of wealth for northeastern Colorado; not only for gold and silver but also thanks to goods and services local mining camps demanded. As in earlier years individuals who could not, or did not, succeed in mineral occupations left the hills in order to take jobs in other businesses, or to prospect in other parts of the state. Northeastern Colorado's mineral industry also permitted the creation of extremely successful men; "Bonanza Kings", rivalling famous "Cattle Barons". These events occurred when easily recoverable ores were exhausted and different methods were forced upon miners.

There was an earlier time when ores were easily recoverable? And then were exhausted? Surely not.

And the very next sentence: "During 1858 and into 1859, prospectors found that gold was easy to recover using the simplest of tools like picks, pans and shovels."

 

[Old Silver]

"Miners started, in 1860, importing stamp mills and Spanish designed arrastras to remove gold from raw ore. Stamp mills used in northeastern Colorado came from "back East" and were brought across the plains on wagons, but the basic designs were developed in the 1850s in both California and Europe. These machines were nothing more than large, mechanically powered mortar and pestle sets that crushed the ore by percussion. Once powdered, the mineral was mixed with mercury (quicksilver) to separate the gold. That mixture was then heated and vibrated to remove the precious metal. The arrastras were crude machines to pulverize ore. They operated much like large millstones grinding ores between two stone wheels. From that point a traditional quicksilver and heat process was used to refine gold. Arrastras were brought to the United States from Mexico by miners who participated in the California rush of 1849 and learned of Spanish mining methods at that time. Neither of these systems was overly efficient and both lost as much as 70 percent of recoverable minerals. The loss ratios were not immediately evident and when they were, mine owners searched for new methods to refine Colorado ores."

And before this, says the article, "prospectors found that gold was easy to recover using the simplest of tools like picks, pans and shovels."

 

[Old Silver]

"Miners started, in 1860, importing stamp mills and Spanish designed arrastras to remove gold from raw ore. Stamp mills used in northeastern Colorado came from "back East" and were brought across the plains on wagons, but the basic designs were developed in the 1850s in both California and Europe. These machines were nothing more than large, mechanically powered mortar and pestle sets that crushed the ore by percussion. Once powdered, the mineral was mixed with mercury (quicksilver) to separate the gold. That mixture was then heated and vibrated to remove the precious metal. The arrastras were crude machines to pulverize ore. They operated much like large millstones grinding ores between two stone wheels. From that point a traditional quicksilver and heat process was used to refine gold. Arrastras were brought to the United States from Mexico by miners who participated in the California rush of 1849 and learned of Spanish mining methods at that time. Neither of these systems was overly efficient and both lost as much as 70 percent of recoverable minerals. The loss ratios were not immediately evident and when they were, mine owners searched for new methods to refine Colorado ores."

And before this, says the article, "prospectors found that gold was easy to recover using the simplest of tools like picks, pans and shovels."

They lost a lot with their refining methods, but Beale obviously didn't have refining capabilities. With this in mind, I will quote the above article for the 3rd time: "prospectors found that gold was easy to recover using the simplest of tools like picks, pans and shovels." Remember, this was before the "modern" refining capabilities.

 

[bigscoop]

....yes - yes, they ignored the fabulous ledge due it's hard rock mining challenges and processing limitations of the period and instead they all grabbed a cast iron pot and went about picking up thousands of pounds of pure gold and SILVER that was just laying about everywhere. Is this what you're buying into? Because it is about your only option left.

 

[bigscoop]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smugg..._District,_Colorado,_USA)_1_(17283935251).jpg

 

[bigscoop]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smugg..._District,_Colorado,_USA)_1_(17283935251).jpg

Notice this was "hard rock" mined.

 

[Old Silver]

....yes - yes, they ignored the fabulous ledge due it's hard rock mining challenges and processing limitations of the period and instead they all grabbed a cast iron pot and went about picking up thousands of pounds of pure gold and SILVER that was just laying about everywhere. Is this what you're buying into? Because it is about your only option left.

No, I'm sticking to what I've been saying the whole time. NOT PURE GOLD. ORE. For some reason you seem to not be able to understand that. But go ahead and joke, I suppose that makes you feel better for having your theory crushed. Your link proved my point, that a lot of gold ore was mind by simple methods.