Indian massacre of miners working in 1823

[Old Silver]

....yes - yes, they ignored the fabulous ledge due it's hard rock mining challenges and processing limitations of the period and instead they all grabbed a cast iron pot and went about picking up thousands of pounds of pure gold and SILVER that was just laying about everywhere. Is this what you're buying into? Because it is about your only option left.

It's not what I'M buying into, it was YOUR link.

 

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[ECS]

....yes - yes, they ignored the fabulous ledge due it's hard rock mining challenges and processing limitations of the period and instead they all grabbed a cast iron pot and went about picking up thousands of pounds of pure gold and SILVER that was just laying about everywhere. Is this what you're buying into? Because it is about your only option left.

One must take into consideration the debris and slag that the mining of gold and silver produce, also the other minerals that have to be removed from the ore deposits. There are still piles of slag on both sides of the highway entering Leadville, and has been named an environmental toxic hazard by the US government .
This site contains photos from the Colorado boom and shows the waste generated .
Colorado-Mines

 

[bigscoop]

Just read C2 again.....it says. "gold" and silver"......it DOES NOT SAY ORE!!!!!!!
This is the entire point to the "processes" that weren't even available at the time!!!!!!
So given the amount of time, the region in question, the era in question, the number in the party, then "thousands of pounds of refined silver and gold" could not have come from a mine!!!!!1

This is proven science, established and supported by historical documentation. The rate of loss being as high as 70% prior to 1867. Jewels could not have been traded for without an extremely long process of essay "per-piece" in order to assess, "trade value." And your author clearly states "silver" and "gold" and not "ore." Something that could not have been achieved due to all of the factors above. "PERIOD"

Now I understand your wanting to believe in such things, as we would all like to, but "it just wasn't possible until a much later date in time" for all of the reasons posted above. And you can take that to the bank, pardon the pun.

 

[Old Silver]

Just read C2 again.....it says. "gold" and silver"......it DOES NOT SAY ORE!!!!!!!
This is the entire point to the "processes" that weren't even available at the time!!!!!!
So given the amount of time, the region in question, the era in question, the number in the party, then "thousands of pounds of refined silver and gold" could not have come from a mine!!!!!1

This is proven science, established and supported by historical documentation. The rate of loss being as high as 70% prior to 1867. Jewels could not have been traded for without an extremely long process of essay "per-piece" in order to assess, "trade value." And your author clearly states "silver" and "gold" and not "ore." Something that could not have been achieved due to all of the factors above. "PERIOD"

Now I understand your wanting to believe in such things, as we would all like to, but "it just wasn't possible until a much later date in time" for all of the reasons posted above. And you can take that to the bank, pardon the pun.

It doesn't say PURE gold and silver. If gold and silver ore contains gold and silver, then a pile of such ore would be gold and silver. That's hard to argue against.

 

[Old Silver]

Just read C2 again.....it says. "gold" and silver"......it DOES NOT SAY ORE!!!!!!!
This is the entire point to the "processes" that weren't even available at the time!!!!!!
So given the amount of time, the region in question, the era in question, the number in the party, then "thousands of pounds of refined silver and gold" could not have come from a mine!!!!!1

This is proven science, established and supported by historical documentation. The rate of loss being as high as 70% prior to 1867. Jewels could not have been traded for without an extremely long process of essay "per-piece" in order to assess, "trade value." And your author clearly states "silver" and "gold" and not "ore." Something that could not have been achieved due to all of the factors above. "PERIOD"

Now I understand your wanting to believe in such things, as we would all like to, but "it just wasn't possible until a much later date in time" for all of the reasons posted above. And you can take that to the bank, pardon the pun.

The point of this, for me, is not to show that the Beale story is true. It's to show that the amount of gold and silver, in weight, that's spoken of in the Beale story, if ore, could have been mined in that area at that time by that many men. PURE gold and silver, I would agree with you, but the story doesn't say PURE.

 

[bigscoop]

How would you quietly trade ore for $13'000 jewels? The time and process required to essay all of those pieces in order to arrive at the same value would be anything from quickly and quietly done.

The author was a very intelligent person, taking care with every word applied throughout the text, certainly intelligent enough to realize the implied meaning of the words gold and silver VS gold ore and silver ore.

The Beale papers are a treasure tale, all of the elements are present. Do you really think the author wrote his narration about a fabulous wealthy treasure without the assurance that the "ores" weren't low grade and only of modest value?

And just so you'll know, ores would be the product of hard rock mining, especially in the volume presented in the tale. You really need to research this entire process so you'll understand what all was required when hard rock mining silver and gold from the bedrock, especially at depths.

 

[Old Silver]

How would you quietly trade ore for $13'000 jewels? The time and process required to essay all of those pieces in order to arrive at the same value would be anything from quickly and quietly done.

The author was a very intelligent person, taking care with every word applied throughout the text, certainly intelligent enough to realize the implied meaning of the words gold and silver VS gold ore and silver ore.

The Beale papers are a treasure tale, all of the elements are present. Do you really think the author wrote his narration about a fabulous wealthy treasure without the assurance that the "ores" weren't low grade and only of modest value?

And just so you'll know, ores would be the product of hard rock mining, especially in the volume presented in the tale. You really need to research this entire process so you'll understand what all was required when hard rock mining silver and gold from the bedrock, especially at depths.

You contradict yourself. You say the author is so intelligent, yet you seem to think he said things that are so obvious that anyone should be able to see it's just a tale. So I ask you, where does this intelligence start, and where does it stop? You can't have it both ways. After everything I have posted. providing proof for what I have said, you are saying I'm the one who should research? That's funny. You are left with the fact that the treasure story is POSSIBLE, if the treasure was ore, and the fact that the story doesn't say it was PURE. You have been proved wrong about the possibility.

 

[ECS]

How would you quietly trade ore for $13'000 jewels? The time and process required to essay all of those pieces in order to arrive at the same value would be anything from quickly and quietly done.

The author was a very intelligent person, taking care with every word applied throughout the text, certainly intelligent enough to realize the implied meaning of the words gold and silver VS gold ore and silver ore.

The Beale papers are a treasure tale, all of the elements are present. Do you really think the author wrote his narration about a fabulous wealthy treasure without the assurance that the "ores" weren't low grade and only of modest value?

And just so you'll know, ores would be the product of hard rock mining, especially in the volume presented in the tale. You really need to research this entire process so you'll understand what all was required when hard rock mining silver and gold from the bedrock, especially at depths.

Photos of gold and silver ore Chris Ralph's Gold Prospecting Encyclopedia: Information on Prospecting for Gems, Gold Ores and Silver Ores
Chris Ralph's Gold Prospecting Encyclopedia: Information on Prospecting for Gems, Gold Ores and Silver Ores
As Bigscoop mentioned, it would take a large amount of silver ore to amount to $13,000 in trade for jewelry, and whomever made the trade would have to have the silver processed to recoop the traded jewelry's value.

 

[Old Silver]

Photos of gold and silver ore Chris Ralph's Gold Prospecting Encyclopedia: Information on Prospecting for Gems, Gold Ores and Silver Ores
Chris Ralph's Gold Prospecting Encyclopedia: Information on Prospecting for Gems, Gold Ores and Silver Ores
As Bigscoop mentioned, it would take a large amount of silver ore to amount to $13,000 in trade for jewelry, and whomever made the trade would have to have the silver processed to recoop the traded jewelry's value.

They supposedly had a little over 4 tons. $13,000 could have been one man's share.

Not 4 tons of silver, but the total treasure. The decoded paper doesn't say the exchange was for silver.

 

[Old Silver]

And by the way, it didn't say they traded $13,000 worth or gold/silver for jewels. It just said what was traded was for jewels that were valued at $13,000. Nothing was said about how much of the treasure was swapped.

 

[ECS]

From the Beale Papers "solved" C2:
"also jewels, obtained in St Louis in exchange for silver to save transportation, and valued at $13,000."

 

[Old Silver]

And when this is proved, then it will be the Jewels, right? Always something to doubt.
Look, I'm not saying this was where Beale and crew mined gold, I'm just saying it's not impossible, as has been stated. I have proof of it's possibility.

Just as I said back on page 3. I proved what I was saying about the gold, so then it became all about the silver, the gold didn't count. Then I proved it about the silver. And now, just as I said, it's about the jewels.

 

[Old Silver]

From the Beale Papers "solved" C2:
"also jewels, obtained in St Louis in exchange for silver to save transportation, and valued at $13,000."

Yes, that's the way it was written by the author, or editor, or somebody. But the actual code says, "...in exchange to save transportation..." The words "for silver" was added by someone who edited the paper.

 

[ECS]

http://smd173.tripod.com/BealePapers.htm
http://www.unmuseum.org/Bealepap.htm

 

[bigscoop]

You contradict yourself. You say the author is so intelligent, yet you seem to think he said things that are so obvious that anyone should be able to see it's just a tale. So I ask you, where does this intelligence start, and where does it stop? You can't have it both ways. After everything I have posted. providing proof for what I have said, you are saying I'm the one who should research? That's funny. You are left with the fact that the treasure story is POSSIBLE, if the treasure was ore, and the fact that the story doesn't say it was PURE. You have been proved wrong about the possibility.

If you say so. But the cold hard facts remain that in 1817-1822 that the grand mining adventure, as it is detailed, just wasn't possible. The more you look into the reality of the matter the better you'll start to understand all of the many reasons why. 10 carts, pulled with the animals you suggest, they'd be lucky to make ten miles a day over good terrain, let alone rugged country and this is with empty carts. On top of this those animals would have to be rested and cared for, at least thirty horses as well. Now you're going to load those wagons up with thousands of pounds of materials plus gear, etc., and you're going to race them cross country. "Ain't going to happen!" These are just more little details one has to research before he can draw upon accurate conclusion. Yes, Ox are big and strong but they are also extremely slow, with a full load they would be reduced to a crawl, plus resting and grazing time so you can forget this notion.

"If wealth was transferred from west to east then it wasn't mined wealth by a thirty member Beale party as described in the alleged letter." That much is for absolutely certain.

 

[ECS]

Just read C2 again.....it says. "gold" and silver"......it DOES NOT SAY ORE!!!!!!!
This is the entire point to the "processes" that weren't even available at the time!!!!!!
So given the amount of time, the region in question, the era in question, the number in the party, then "thousands of pounds of refined silver and gold" could not have come from a mine...

This is proven science, established and supported by historical documentation. The rate of loss being as high as 70% prior to 1867. Jewels could not have been traded for without an extremely long process of essay "per-piece" in order to assess, "trade value." And your author clearly states "silver" and "gold" and not "ore." Something that could not have been achieved due to all of the factors above...

This site will shed light on how "FIELD" extraction of gold and silver was accomplished in he 1820's:
Extracting gold from rock - OpenLearn - Open University
Notice that it is a time consuming process with small yields, and requires mercury and Potatoes.

 

[masterpoe]

If you say so. But the cold hard facts remain that in 1817-1822 that the grand mining adventure, as it is detailed, just wasn't possible. The more you look into the reality of the matter the better you'll start to understand all of the many reasons why. 10 carts, pulled with the animals you suggest, they'd be lucky to make ten miles a day over good terrain, let alone rugged country and this is with empty carts. On top of this those animals would have to be rested and cared for, at least thirty horses as well. Now you're going to load those wagons up with thousands of pounds of materials plus gear, etc., and you're going to race them cross country. "Ain't going to happen!" These are just more little details one has to research before he can draw upon accurate conclusion. Yes, Ox are big and strong but they are also extremely slow, with a full load they would be reduced to a crawl, plus resting and grazing time so you can forget this notion.

"If wealth was transferred from west to east then it wasn't mined wealth by a thirty member Beale party as described in the alleged letter." That much is for absolutely certain.

So if they were buying silver from somewhere in New Mexico for 50% of what they could sell it, using gold they found, would make sense.

 

[Old Silver]

If you say so. But the cold hard facts remain that in 1817-1822 that the grand mining adventure, as it is detailed, just wasn't possible. The more you look into the reality of the matter the better you'll start to understand all of the many reasons why. 10 carts, pulled with the animals you suggest, they'd be lucky to make ten miles a day over good terrain, let alone rugged country and this is with empty carts. On top of this those animals would have to be rested and cared for, at least thirty horses as well. Now you're going to load those wagons up with thousands of pounds of materials plus gear, etc., and you're going to race them cross country. "Ain't going to happen!" These are just more little details one has to research before he can draw upon accurate conclusion. Yes, Ox are big and strong but they are also extremely slow, with a full load they would be reduced to a crawl, plus resting and grazing time so you can forget this notion.

"If wealth was transferred from west to east then it wasn't mined wealth by a thirty member Beale party as described in the alleged letter." That much is for absolutely certain.

We have seen articles stating that people did mine lots of gold with primitive tools. How then can it not be possible?

Actually, it did take them a long time to make the trip.

 

[ECS]

How would you quietly trade ore for $13'000 jewels? ...

The Beale papers are a treasure tale, all of the elements are present...

The population of 1820 St Louis was 10,049 and at that time a frontier fur trading town.
The Bank of St Louis was formed in 1816 by fur traders Augustre Chouteau, Manuel Lisa, Sylvestre Labadie who were fur traders and accepted furs as collateral.
The stores, like Kennerly's Mercantile (Kennerly's were related to Risqué, Ward, and Hutter) sold provisions for the hunters and trappers, and jewels were not an item that had much use in a frontier town.
So the question is who had a $13,000 inventory of jewels at hand that could have been traded for silver?
That is one item in the Beale narrative among others concerning the western portion of the tale that raises questions, and is the reason why the April 16, 1879 Lynchburg Virginian news article concerning Robert O Willis's $65,000 treasure of gold, silver, and jewelry discovered in a cave stands out as the literary source for the Beale treasure inventory.

 

[Old Silver]

http://smd173.tripod.com/BealePapers.htm
http://www.unmuseum.org/Bealepap.htm

The author of the Beale papers (1885) said the decoded paper told that silver was traded for the jewels. But get a copy of the DOI (numbered) and do the counting yourself. When you do, you'll see that the actual decoded paper doesn't say that at all. It says "IN EXCHANGE TO SAVE TRANSPORTATION." The author, or someone else, added the words "FOR SILVER."