I NEED HELP

[Chagy]

Hello everyone,

I found a silver charm or medal MDing in the beach, it looks religious it has a right foot with wings, maybe masonic
in the back it has the word "sterling" and under it, it has some initials but it is to hard to read, maybe "HNY" or "HRY" the "H" is the only letter you can read clearly.

Does any one know when they started marking silver with the word sterling??

I think it is very old, found on a beach next to a wreck.

I am still on my hunting trip i will get home tomorrow and will post pics.

Best,

Chagy..........

Got the pics, ENJOY!!!!!!

 

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[Bigcypresshunter]

Am I imagining it or does this thing look red and green? When the last time anyone has seen sterling turn this color? The color of clad. Black, yes...but red+ green? That's copper. Could it say "sterling HGE"? Does it say mexico anywhere? Not the first time the word sterling used to decive buyers.

Looks machine made, stamped. Also deco like crysler building. 1920-1930's track medal. Maybe not american though, looks european.

Very cool find.

I agree. Need to test for silver content. It should be black. It looks like it could say HSP (heavy silver plated) just a guess. What beach exactly was it found at? You can make a very good test solution with Nitric Acid and Potassium Dichromate.

 

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[Gypsy Heart]

Yachting clubs and organizations use the Winged foot on their medal and trophies.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

I did not mean to cheapen it, just after the facts. But I feel it needs to be tested (a simple test) to remove any doubt.
If it is connected to the barefoot mailmen, then it would be quite valuable. Could also be from one of the many shipwrecks. We need to know exact location of find.
Gypsy, Can you find a pic?

 

[packerbacker]

I had also posted this link in "Today's Finds" for Chagy.
http://www.trinityoxford.org/tca/id5.htm

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Very good. I just wish we had one picture to positively ID.

 

[Chagy]

Hi everyone,

Its not red (maybe the flash) its black with a little bit of green (no red)
Last night I looked at 100s of track and field and running medals, the foot is always sideways, and they don't look religious like this one. I also did some research on the barefoot mailman. They only worked for 8 years from the 1880s to 1890s I believe there was only 4 of them, the last name of the original barefoot mailman is Hamilton
"H" on the back (maybe his initials, not sure) this story of the barefoot mailman makes some seance. Maybe the medal is some kind of guardian angel to bless his feet (barefoot mailman) I will do some more research on the subject tonight.

Best,

Chagy.......

 

[packerbacker]

just a little more Chagy
?Barefoot?

Barefeet have several meanings. For example, nakedness of feet is a sign of mourning. God says to Ezekiel, the priest (Ezekiel 24:17) ?Make no mourning for the dead......and put on thy shoes upon thy feet.? David is said to have gone from Jerusalem barefoot, when he fled from Absalom. It is also a mark of respect. In the Koran we find the passage ?Surely I am your Lord, therefore put off your shoes......." (Ta Ha 20:12). The Muslims do indeed leave their shoes at the door of a mosque before entering. In Christianity we find that Moses took off his shoes to approach the burning bush where the angel of the Lord called to Moses (Exodus 3:5); priests serving in the Tabernacle (a tent sanctuary used by the Israelites during the Exodus) did so with their feet naked, as they did afterwards in the Temple. This is likely what is referred to in our rituals.

The foot is said to represent the soul, as it serves to support the entire body and keep it upright. Demonic beings, for this reason, were often depicted with feet that differed to those of man, or were turned the wrong way.

 

[Chagy]

I just spoke to a friend of mine who is a mason, I showed him the medal or charm, he says; it is the "guardian symbol of the traveling man. Hamilton James Edwards (the barefoot mailman) died in the line of duty while crossing the Hypoluxo Inlet. Look closely to the pic of the back of the medal and tell me if it doesn't look like "HJE"?

Best,

Chagy........

 

[cryptodave]

Chagy, thats amazing. I did not mention that I am a mason before, because it wasn't important.

The only reference to a traveling man is:
"Also, a Master Mason is a traveler from west to east, as east is where the sun comes up, hence the source of light. This is why the master sits in the East. Because it is the source of light. Thus being a traveling man represents our journey from darkness to Masonic light (enlightment)."
That is against what your medallion shows, because the foot is clearly LEAVING the east, or source of light.
When you find references to traveling man in the masons, it never has its own unique symbol. It is always spelled out and has the square and compass with it.
The only thing, and I mean only thing I can think is that it was something special a local lodge made up for a traveling man to wear around a lanyard when he visited a new lodge, to distiquish him from regular members... But that also goes against the masonic teachings, because in a legally constituted master mason lodge, all brothers are equal regardless of where they come from.
I did see something referencing Prince Hall lodges... They are the black lodges in the south were the grand lodge for that state does not recognize them as a regular lodge. They have most of the same rituals as the regular white lodges, but there are differences, and that might be one of them.
If it does indeed end up being a masonic, you have a rare and possibly valuable collectible... Especially if you are able to get it in front of the right people.

 

[packerbacker]

I guess if you can't believe in something as unbelievable as St. Christopher, you can always put stock in the protection of a barefoot postal worker during your travels.

 

[Chagy]

Thanks Cryptodave,

My uncle is also a mason, he says; he has never seen this symbol, but it is for sure a guarding angel. I am not sure of anything yet but I will keep on doing research until I find out. One thing I know for sure its not common, this is something rare and old.

Best,

Chagy.........

 

[Chagy]

Hey packerbacker,

I do believe in St. Christopher, like I said before I come from a very religious family, I know that St. Christopher is the protector of the travelers, but everytime you see a charm of St. Christopher you can clearly see him walking with a stick in his hand. Sometimes in the back of the charm you will find a car, plane, boat or a man walking. It could be related to St. Christopher but have you ever seen St. Christopher represented with a winged foot?
And if it is St Christopher it could still be related to the barefoot mailman it would make sence.

Best,

Chagy......

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

And if it is St Christopher it could still be related to the barefoot mailman it would make seance.

Best,

Chagy......

It may make an interesting seance but would make better sense.

 

[packerbacker]

I wasn't questioning anyone's faith Chagy, just a little harmless humor. This has been a fun item to research. I hope someone comes up with a solid answer one way or the other. Long ago, in church history, the elevated soul was represented with a winged skull. In these times, it would probably be mistaken for some kind of nazi symbol. I think that maybe the foot fell out of favor as representing the soul and, nowdays, it is represented by a cherub or heart. C'mon someone, clear this up!

 

[Chagy]

Don't worry, I didn't think that anyone was questioning my faith, I just made a statement thats all. I said that I come from a very religious family. I mentioned my family not my self. Any way I am very open mined and I respect everyones opinion.

Back in the days people where very superstitious and they would use skulls to scare and wings to protect.
and maybe some of you are right on what you are saying but we need to confirm it ether, or, by finding another one or the story to this one.


Best,

Chagy...........

 

[Chagy]

The initials are engraved, the wreck is from England "Spring of Whitby" 1824

I also think that all the art was done handmade.

Chagy.....

 

[Chagy]

Fleamistress,

Maybe you are right it could be related to Hermes because of the similitude to a Greek design(see attached pics)

Hermes;
#1 messenger of Zeus
#2 bringer of dreams
#3 the patron of travellers

Also see a pic of Hermes getting into a ferry to cross a river, the same way the barefoot mailman died.

If it is related to Hermes it could still be related to the barefoot mailman or to someone who travels in a vessel "Spring of Whitby"

here is a masonic symbol that has a similitude to it.

Best,

Chagy........

 

[DJ_Quinn]

In all my research of masonic rites and emblems, I have yet to see any concerning winged feet. Of course, it could be something to do with the York Rite, Scottish Rite, or Shriners... Haven't really looked into them yet, but the using the knowledge I DO know about them, I can say it probably isn't anything involving them either.

My guess is its a 30s~50s track and field symbol. Alot of these things change over time, and it sounds very much like the ones we had in high school.... Matter of fact, it sounds alot like the one I had on my sophomore letterman jacket.... You know, the one that you pinned on. Didn't get the real nice one until your senior year.

Do a google image search for winged foot. There is one listed as "1950 GAMES LOGO The Winged Foot ..." that looks simular to what your describing.

I've seen them in this part of the world. Mercury, or Hermes, is a symbol of hermetic or alchemecical knowledge which some Masonic sources claim that Freemasonery is a repository for ancient hermetic philosophy. This claim can be traced to Freemasonery's claim of lineage from the Knights Templar who were known to dabbled in Alchemy, which they studied from older arabic texts.

Mercury is an important symbol in some European lodges, specifically Germany, where Freemasonery had connections with the Rosicrucians.

 

[DJ_Quinn]

Actually, my guess is it's Masonic, either French or German, and it's a Pheonix. The Pheonix was a common Masonic symbol, even used by the American founding fathers until it was replaced by the eagle in 1841.

 

[jon43]

Hey packerbacker,

I do believe in St. Christopher, like I said before I come from a very religious family, I know that St. Christopher is the protector of the travelers, but everytime you see a charm of St. Christopher you can clearly see him walking with a stick in his hand. Sometimes in the back of the charm you will find a car, plane, boat or a man walking. It could be related to St. Christopher but have you ever seen St. Christopher represented with a winged foot?
And if it is St Christopher it could still be related to the barefoot mailman it would make sence.

Best,

Chagy......

you are right about st christopher charm.