Went to a local park but ended up going to an area that I had detected before but did not put much time into it and never really found anything. I ended up finding some lead and a pin. I found all the lead pretty deep. Some of the smaller ones were close to 9 inches. Found the pin in the same area. Dont know if it's more modern or something from the civil war era too. I have searched on Google but cant find anything. Any ideas. Thanks.
Help with ID on military looking pin
- Thread starter Bill_S
- Start date
That is the way I am leaning, would be nice to have the missing pieces . not your everyday run of the mill item the design looks greek to me but don't ask for an example lol , I have eye strain Bob ! as for the soldering it wasn't the best job so might be a homemade addition to the piece.or just a jeweler that figured who cares what the back looks like. Wish I could find a list of suppliers for the UR so we could possibly narrow it down more
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PLEASE STAND BY 
SODABOTTLEBOB
Silver Member
Okay, folks. It looks like I'm going to need some help. I thought I might find something to back up my find, but so far have been unable to. This is wide open to anyone who wishes to pursue it.
Here's the link and all I know about it.
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Link: http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=42394
Here's the link and all I know about it.
SBB
Link: http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=42394
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KNIGHTS OF PYTHIAS (K of P) I believe all of these are from MO.
Pythias is an international non-sectarian fraternal order, founded in 1864, Stockton, CA and was the first to be chartered by an act of Congress.
The Fraternal Order of Knights of Pythias and its members are dedicated to the cause of universal peace.
Pythians are pledged to the promotion of understanding among men of good will as the surest means of attaining Universal Peace.
We believe that men, meeting in a spirit of goodwill, in an honest effort of understanding, can live together on this earth in peace and harmony.
We seek those who agree with this belief, and have a belief in a personal Supreme Being, to join our ranks in an effort to reach "Peace Through Understanding".
(Have their own burial lot in Bellefontaine) (Org. 1864 (Men Only)
Acme Lodge, No.219
Aurora Lodge, No. 64
Barton Lodhe, No.18
Bismarck Lodge, No.152 (St. Louis?)
Brilliant Division, No.1 (Uniformed Ranks)
Brilliant Lodge, No.55
Brilliant Monroe Lodge, No.341
Burlington Lodge, No.336
Calanthe Lodge, No.104
Chevalier Lodge, No. 70
Chevalier-Missouri Lodge, No.2
Claremore Lodge, No.431
Cohen, Robert E. Lodge, No.131
Columbia Lodge, No.226
Columbia-Acme Lodge, No.226
Confidence Lodge No.121
Cosmopolitan Lodge, No.23
Cowan, Robert E. Lodge, No.131
Crescent Lodge, No.10
Damon Division, No.6 (Uniformed Ranks)
Damon Lodge No.28
Eleventh Pythian Dist. Assn.
Eureka Lodge, No.81 (East St. Louis)
Excelsior Lodge No.19 (organized 1872)
First Pythian District Assn.
Future Great Lodge, No.276
Future Great Company, No.5 (Uniformed Ranks)
Germania Lodge, No.6
Golden Crown Lodge No.62
Grand Lodge
Headquarters, 2d Regiment , (Uniform Rank)
Holmes, John H. Company, No.11 (Uniformed Ranks)
Hope Div., No.22 (Uniformed Ranks?)
Hope Lodge, No.186
Hope Monroe Lodge, No.341
Lafayette Lodge, No.128
Liberty Lodge, No.18
Lincoln Lodge, No.18 (German)
Lincoln-Columbia Lodge, No.18
Magnolia Lodge. No.119 (consolidated with Chevalier Lodge)
Maplewood Lodge, No.356
Missouri Brigade Uniform Rank
Missouri Lodge, No. 2 (cities oldest)
Modac Lodge, No.290
Monitor Lodge, No.68
Monroe Lodge No.341
North Star Lodge No.101 (existed short time 1885-1889 approx.)
Orleans Lodge, No. 1
Overland Lodge, No.427
Pacific Lodge, No.304
Paragon Lodge No.58
Pope Lodge No.180
Premiere Lodge, No.249
Pride of the West Lodge, No. 24 (German)
Pythagoras Lodge, No.275
Rathbone Division, No.17 (Uniformed Ranks)
(East St. Louis)
Red Cross Division, No.4 (Uniformed Ranks)
Red Cross Lodge, No. 54
Red Cross Literary and Musical Club
Royal Lodge, No.233
Royal-Monitor Lodge, No.233
Scandia Div., No.5 (Uniformed Ranks?)
Scandia Lodge, No.67
Schiller Lodge, No.36
Sicilian Camp Lodge, No.8
St. Louis Div., No.55 (Uniformed Ranks?)
St. Louis Lodge, No.7
St. Louis Sanjtha, Nomads of Avrudaka
Star Div. No.9 (Uniformed Rank of K.P.)
SUNA Ladies’ Auxilary
Tower Grove Lodge, No.166
Transient Knights’ Relief Board
Unity Lodge
Victor Lodge, No.300
Virginius Lodge, No. 92 (Centralia)
Wabash Division, No.55 (Uniformed Rank)
Wabash Lodge, No.248
Walnut Lodge, No.288
Washington Lodge, No.133
Wellston Lodge, No.413
Westgate Lodge, No.422
Zulema Lodge, No.321
Zulema Temple, No.54 (D.O.K.K.) (Uniformed Ranks)
KNIGHTS OF PYTHIAS OF MO.
A small black order, formed when they discovered they would not be admitted to the Knights proper.
Battle Axe Lodge, No.4 (Uniformed Ranks)
Carondelet Lodge, No.56
Columbian Battle Axe Cadets, No.1 (Uniformed Ranks)
Company F (Uniformed Ranks)
Damon Lodge, No.6
Edwards Lodge, No.106
Eureka Lodge, No.16
Excelsior Lodge, No.3
Far West Lodge, No.2 (Uniformed Ranks)
Grand Lodge
Hughes Lodge, No.93
Maceo Lodge, No.15
Mound City Lodge, No.4
Mound City, Company C, (Uniformed Rank)
Mumford, W. T. Lodge, No.2
New Light Lodge, No.67
Pride of Missouri Lodge, No.67
Pride of St. Louis Lodge, No.72
Pride of the West Lodge, No.1
Pythian Lodge, (Uniformed Ranks)
Robinson, Lodge, No.18
Rock Spring Lodge, No.39
Royal Lodge, No.75
Scott, D. W. Lodge, No.104
Semper Fidelis Lodge, No.34
St. Louis Lodge, No.41
St. Pythias Lodge, No.13
Stringer, T. W. Lodge, No.17
Sumner Lodge, No.50
Syracuse Lodge, No.58
Toussaint Lodge, No.28
Triumph Lodge, No.52
Troop A, 1st Cavalry (Uniformed Ranks)
Unity Lodge, No.51
The black order has piqued my interest, but alas my eyes need a rest lol
Pythias is an international non-sectarian fraternal order, founded in 1864, Stockton, CA and was the first to be chartered by an act of Congress.
The Fraternal Order of Knights of Pythias and its members are dedicated to the cause of universal peace.
Pythians are pledged to the promotion of understanding among men of good will as the surest means of attaining Universal Peace.
We believe that men, meeting in a spirit of goodwill, in an honest effort of understanding, can live together on this earth in peace and harmony.
We seek those who agree with this belief, and have a belief in a personal Supreme Being, to join our ranks in an effort to reach "Peace Through Understanding".
(Have their own burial lot in Bellefontaine) (Org. 1864 (Men Only)
Acme Lodge, No.219
Aurora Lodge, No. 64
Barton Lodhe, No.18
Bismarck Lodge, No.152 (St. Louis?)
Brilliant Division, No.1 (Uniformed Ranks)
Brilliant Lodge, No.55
Brilliant Monroe Lodge, No.341
Burlington Lodge, No.336
Calanthe Lodge, No.104
Chevalier Lodge, No. 70
Chevalier-Missouri Lodge, No.2
Claremore Lodge, No.431
Cohen, Robert E. Lodge, No.131
Columbia Lodge, No.226
Columbia-Acme Lodge, No.226
Confidence Lodge No.121
Cosmopolitan Lodge, No.23
Cowan, Robert E. Lodge, No.131
Crescent Lodge, No.10
Damon Division, No.6 (Uniformed Ranks)
Damon Lodge No.28
Eleventh Pythian Dist. Assn.
Eureka Lodge, No.81 (East St. Louis)
Excelsior Lodge No.19 (organized 1872)
First Pythian District Assn.
Future Great Lodge, No.276
Future Great Company, No.5 (Uniformed Ranks)
Germania Lodge, No.6
Golden Crown Lodge No.62
Grand Lodge
Headquarters, 2d Regiment , (Uniform Rank)
Holmes, John H. Company, No.11 (Uniformed Ranks)
Hope Div., No.22 (Uniformed Ranks?)
Hope Lodge, No.186
Hope Monroe Lodge, No.341
Lafayette Lodge, No.128
Liberty Lodge, No.18
Lincoln Lodge, No.18 (German)
Lincoln-Columbia Lodge, No.18
Magnolia Lodge. No.119 (consolidated with Chevalier Lodge)
Maplewood Lodge, No.356
Missouri Brigade Uniform Rank
Missouri Lodge, No. 2 (cities oldest)
Modac Lodge, No.290
Monitor Lodge, No.68
Monroe Lodge No.341
North Star Lodge No.101 (existed short time 1885-1889 approx.)
Orleans Lodge, No. 1
Overland Lodge, No.427
Pacific Lodge, No.304
Paragon Lodge No.58
Pope Lodge No.180
Premiere Lodge, No.249
Pride of the West Lodge, No. 24 (German)
Pythagoras Lodge, No.275
Rathbone Division, No.17 (Uniformed Ranks)
(East St. Louis)
Red Cross Division, No.4 (Uniformed Ranks)
Red Cross Lodge, No. 54
Red Cross Literary and Musical Club
Royal Lodge, No.233
Royal-Monitor Lodge, No.233
Scandia Div., No.5 (Uniformed Ranks?)
Scandia Lodge, No.67
Schiller Lodge, No.36
Sicilian Camp Lodge, No.8
St. Louis Div., No.55 (Uniformed Ranks?)
St. Louis Lodge, No.7
St. Louis Sanjtha, Nomads of Avrudaka
Star Div. No.9 (Uniformed Rank of K.P.)
SUNA Ladies’ Auxilary
Tower Grove Lodge, No.166
Transient Knights’ Relief Board
Unity Lodge
Victor Lodge, No.300
Virginius Lodge, No. 92 (Centralia)
Wabash Division, No.55 (Uniformed Rank)
Wabash Lodge, No.248
Walnut Lodge, No.288
Washington Lodge, No.133
Wellston Lodge, No.413
Westgate Lodge, No.422
Zulema Lodge, No.321
Zulema Temple, No.54 (D.O.K.K.) (Uniformed Ranks)
KNIGHTS OF PYTHIAS OF MO.
A small black order, formed when they discovered they would not be admitted to the Knights proper.
Battle Axe Lodge, No.4 (Uniformed Ranks)
Carondelet Lodge, No.56
Columbian Battle Axe Cadets, No.1 (Uniformed Ranks)
Company F (Uniformed Ranks)
Damon Lodge, No.6
Edwards Lodge, No.106
Eureka Lodge, No.16
Excelsior Lodge, No.3
Far West Lodge, No.2 (Uniformed Ranks)
Grand Lodge
Hughes Lodge, No.93
Maceo Lodge, No.15
Mound City Lodge, No.4
Mound City, Company C, (Uniformed Rank)
Mumford, W. T. Lodge, No.2
New Light Lodge, No.67
Pride of Missouri Lodge, No.67
Pride of St. Louis Lodge, No.72
Pride of the West Lodge, No.1
Pythian Lodge, (Uniformed Ranks)
Robinson, Lodge, No.18
Rock Spring Lodge, No.39
Royal Lodge, No.75
Scott, D. W. Lodge, No.104
Semper Fidelis Lodge, No.34
St. Louis Lodge, No.41
St. Pythias Lodge, No.13
Stringer, T. W. Lodge, No.17
Sumner Lodge, No.50
Syracuse Lodge, No.58
Toussaint Lodge, No.28
Triumph Lodge, No.52
Troop A, 1st Cavalry (Uniformed Ranks)
Unity Lodge, No.51
The black order has piqued my interest, but alas my eyes need a rest lol
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SODABOTTLEBOB
Silver Member
Since I am as eager as the next person to see this thing solved, I thought I would share what occured that allowed me to find the similar looking pin. It dawned on me that there were probably a lot of other people out there who have items in their possesion, but, like us, don't know what they have. So I decided to completely drop the term "Knights of Pythias," as well as terms like "Pin" ~ "Medal" ~ "Badge" and try doing some searches along those lines. Here are a couple of examples ...
Fraternal Crossed Swords
Military Crossed Swords
Lodge Crossed Swords
To my surprise, I am now seeing a whole new assortment of items that I have not seen before. And this includes more "K of P" items that people are not familar with like we are, and simply describe as "some kind of fraternal pin," or "some kind of military badge." But we know better, don't we? Using specifics like "K of P" may limit the results.
Anyway, you might give it a try and see what pops up. I found that W. VA./30 pin by searching ...
Fraternal Crossed Swords
Good Luck
SBB
Fraternal Crossed Swords
Military Crossed Swords
Lodge Crossed Swords
To my surprise, I am now seeing a whole new assortment of items that I have not seen before. And this includes more "K of P" items that people are not familar with like we are, and simply describe as "some kind of fraternal pin," or "some kind of military badge." But we know better, don't we? Using specifics like "K of P" may limit the results.
Anyway, you might give it a try and see what pops up. I found that W. VA./30 pin by searching ...
Fraternal Crossed Swords
Good Luck
SBB
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ditto ! lol , using the term dagger brings up lot's of Nazi related items, militia works well and also volunteers,did you post on that thread link you gave asking for better pics and or any identifying makers marks ? memorabilia is another good one ,insignia , hat/lapel,collar pins,badges rank insignia. keep going buddy ! I see you solving thisdiggummup said:Go Bob go!SODABOTTLEBOB said:
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SODABOTTLEBOB
Silver Member
dig & allan
Thanks. And, no ... I thought about inquiring on that forum but did not. It was from 2009 and I figured it was a dead end. But I still may and see what happens. Maybe someone will respond.
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Thanks. And, no ... I thought about inquiring on that forum but did not. It was from 2009 and I figured it was a dead end. But I still may and see what happens. Maybe someone will respond.
SBB
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High Plains Digger
Bronze Member
- Feb 1, 2008
- 1,314
- 13
One thought here--without radio, TV, and internet, what would the guys do for entertainment? Monday nite--ELKS, Tuesday nite--ODD FELLOWS, Wednesday nite--KoP, Thursday nite--GRANGE, Friday nite--WIFE, Saturday nite--GUYS AT THE LOCAL BAR. And it had to be specific, as in: All the Italians get together at an Italian Bar, all the Poles at the Polish bar, and on and on. Less fighting that way, unless you were Irish. Sorry, no metal detecting bar, yet.
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Bigcypresshunter
Gold Member
- Dec 15, 2004
- 27,000
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- Beach & Shallow Water Hunting
I just got back from the swamp and I see some great progress has been made.
SoMdRelicHunter nailed the Uniform Rank but keep in mind that UR might not be limited to Knights of Pythias.
Wow and SodaBottleBob found a matching pin from a different state! Great stuff.
SoMdRelicHunter nailed the Uniform Rank but keep in mind that UR might not be limited to Knights of Pythias.
Wow and SodaBottleBob found a matching pin from a different state! Great stuff.
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TheCannonballGuy
Gold Member
- Feb 24, 2006
- 6,558
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- Relic Hunting
Applause for SodaBottleBob!
Some observations and thoughts:
Among other benefits, your finding of the KoP-UR WVA-30 version of the pin explains a blemish on the KoP-UR _OC pin's back, near the upper end of the left sword's blade. That's where the pin's missing clasp used to be.
I note that the WVA-30 pin is thin stamped-brass, showing an opposite-image on its back, whereas the _OC pin is solid-cast brass. Probably from dfferent manufacturers.
Bob, while you were internet-searching, I took a different approach. I sent an email to the current KoP "Supreme Secretary." But the email bounced back, because the address listed for him is no longer in existence. So I phonecalled the Supreme lodge of the KoP. Got a message-machine. I'll let y'all know if I get a callback.
Some observations and thoughts:
Among other benefits, your finding of the KoP-UR WVA-30 version of the pin explains a blemish on the KoP-UR _OC pin's back, near the upper end of the left sword's blade. That's where the pin's missing clasp used to be.
I note that the WVA-30 pin is thin stamped-brass, showing an opposite-image on its back, whereas the _OC pin is solid-cast brass. Probably from dfferent manufacturers.
Bob, while you were internet-searching, I took a different approach. I sent an email to the current KoP "Supreme Secretary." But the email bounced back, because the address listed for him is no longer in existence. So I phonecalled the Supreme lodge of the KoP. Got a message-machine. I'll let y'all know if I get a callback.
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TheCannonballGuy
Gold Member
- Feb 24, 2006
- 6,558
- 13,160
- Detector(s) used
- White's 6000, Nautilus DMC-1, Minelab
- Primary Interest:
- Relic Hunting
BigCypressHunter wrote:
> Is KOP the only fraternal org with with the lily between the U and R?
Well... there are many varieties of lilies. So I think the specific variety of lily that is shown in an organization's emblem is important. On the pin, the lily between the U and R is a distinctive form of lily named a Calla Liiy, which is the symbol of the KoP Uniformed Rank. I've seen two different "perspectives" of a Calla Lily on UR gear, but it is still quite identifiable as a Calla Lily. So my answer to your question (above) is, I think it's extremely unlikely that any other fraternal organization would use the letters U and R with a Calla Lily between them.
> SoMdRelicHunter nailed the Uniform Rank but keep in mind that UR might not be limited to Knights of Pythias.
Perhaps the letters UR aren't limited to the Knights of Pythias... but I've spotted proof that the lily-with-UR crossed swords pin is a KoP UR insignia. Like SodaBottleBob, I've been trying to figure out the markings on the pin's swordblades. See the photo and Bob's computer-graphic rendering at the end of this post. I've now realized that the swords' blades show a letter K superimposed onto a letter P. Thus, Knights of Pythias.
> Is KOP the only fraternal org with with the lily between the U and R?
Well... there are many varieties of lilies. So I think the specific variety of lily that is shown in an organization's emblem is important. On the pin, the lily between the U and R is a distinctive form of lily named a Calla Liiy, which is the symbol of the KoP Uniformed Rank. I've seen two different "perspectives" of a Calla Lily on UR gear, but it is still quite identifiable as a Calla Lily. So my answer to your question (above) is, I think it's extremely unlikely that any other fraternal organization would use the letters U and R with a Calla Lily between them.
> SoMdRelicHunter nailed the Uniform Rank but keep in mind that UR might not be limited to Knights of Pythias.
Perhaps the letters UR aren't limited to the Knights of Pythias... but I've spotted proof that the lily-with-UR crossed swords pin is a KoP UR insignia. Like SodaBottleBob, I've been trying to figure out the markings on the pin's swordblades. See the photo and Bob's computer-graphic rendering at the end of this post. I've now realized that the swords' blades show a letter K superimposed onto a letter P. Thus, Knights of Pythias.
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TheCannonballGuy
Gold Member
- Feb 24, 2006
- 6,558
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- Detector(s) used
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Allan wrote:
> can also ask questions here http://www.pythias.org/
Thanks, Allan. But I already saw that option on the Pythias website. I started to use it, but then noticed it has no provision for sending the digital photos of the KoP-UR crossed-swords pin. So I phonecalled the Pythias office, got the message-machine, and asked for an email address that I can send the digital photos to.
> can also ask questions here http://www.pythias.org/
Thanks, Allan. But I already saw that option on the Pythias website. I started to use it, but then noticed it has no provision for sending the digital photos of the KoP-UR crossed-swords pin. So I phonecalled the Pythias office, got the message-machine, and asked for an email address that I can send the digital photos to.
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I was looking for info on the pin that looks like the one Bob found and thought that maybe the number 30 was the lodge number but # 30 is here ALBERMARLE, Lodge #30; ELIZABETH CITY North Carolina, sooo whats the wva mean ? or the 30 more head scratching and squinting to do . come on Bob get it before I go blind !
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SODABOTTLEBOB
Silver Member
TCG ~
Now it's my turn to applaud you. Until you pointed it out, I did not see the K on top of the P, (entwined) but clearly do now.
Now maybe you or someone else can do a better job of enlarging and highlighting the handle on the W. VA. pin. I swear I see the lily, or what I used to call a weird Q. (The blades are too dark to work with). Below is the best I could do. For some reason I was unable to enlarge it. But try changing your zoom (lower right corner of your screen) to about 200% and see if that doesn't look like a lily to you? The Q is kind of at an angle with the round part on the upper right and the tail on the lower left.
SBB
Now it's my turn to applaud you. Until you pointed it out, I did not see the K on top of the P, (entwined) but clearly do now.
Now maybe you or someone else can do a better job of enlarging and highlighting the handle on the W. VA. pin. I swear I see the lily, or what I used to call a weird Q. (The blades are too dark to work with). Below is the best I could do. For some reason I was unable to enlarge it. But try changing your zoom (lower right corner of your screen) to about 200% and see if that doesn't look like a lily to you? The Q is kind of at an angle with the round part on the upper right and the tail on the lower left.
SBB
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