Re: has montezuma's tomb been found ...?
Greetings everyone,
Peerless67 wrote:
To claim you have the position of Atlantis is a great claim, something that in my worthless oppinion requires great proof. As of now that has not been forth coming.
Well mi amigo Gary, I respectfully disagree that your opinion is in any way "worthless" you have shown yourself to be a capable and resourceful treasure hunter/researcher. Other than that point I am in agreement with you -
for anyone to make the claim that they know the true location of Atlantis is an extraordinary claim, and I agree that this claim pretty much automatically demands extraordinary proof. So far we have nothing from our amigo Blindbowman other than a set of longitude/latitude coordinates, which is not a lot of proof.
As for the television theory, making the Minoans as the Atlantians, I will grant that this real history has some parallels with Atlantis but has a number of problems. First off is the location - for Plato (and other ancient sources) have fairly clearly located Atlantis out in the Atlantic ocean, even in the very passage cited from Plato:
For these histories tell of a mighty power which unprovoked made an expedition against the whole of Europe and Asia, and to which your city put an end. This power came forth out of the Atlantic Ocean, for in those days the Atlantic was navigable; and there was an island situated in front of the straits which are by you called the Pillars of Heracles; the island was larger than Libya and Asia put together, and was the way to other islands, and from these you might pass to the whole of the opposite continent which surrounded the true ocean; for this sea which is within the Straits of Heracles is only a harbour, having a narrow entrance, but that other is a real sea, and the surrounding land may be most truly called a boundless continent.
This remarkable paragraph clearly indicates the location of Atlantis was in the Atlantic ocean (which ocean was named for Atlantis, which would be a ridiculous act if Atlantis were actually a group of rather tiny islands in the Aegean/Mediterranean seas) and implies directly that the ocean levels were lower than at the time of Solon (638 BC–558 BC) by referring to the "other islands" and that the ocean was "navigable" in those days, compared with the larger/deeper ocean with larger and more intense storms such as we have today and the much greater distances between land-falls. A side note here but this very paragraph provides proof that the ancient Greeks were definitely aware of the existence of the Americas, as the "boundless continent" that borders the whole of the Atlantic to the west. It would appear to be a single large continent to explorers coming from Europe, as it actually is one continent.
Next problem is the date - yes I am aware of the theory that Solon simply got the numerical terminology mis-translated or garbled, and this is a possibility, but the details indicate that he did not. For instance if we reduce everything by a factor of ten (as suggested by the TV special) then the interior plain of Atlantis is hardly worthy of mention.
Another set of problems lies in the things described as being in Atlantis which are not found in the Minoan empire - such as elephants and orichalcum. I won't bore you all with every single point of difference between the Minoans and the descriptions we have of Atlantis, but will add two more.
The Minoan empire seems to have been destroyed due to the eruption of Thera and the resulting massive explosion and tsunamis that followed, which probably destroyed most of the Minoan navy and much of their armies, allowing their large slave population to rise in revolt. (The so-called Sea Peoples are in my opinion the former slaves of the Minoans) Atlantis was destroyed by a combination of "earthquakes and floods" as Plato described, with no mention of any volcanic eruption which detail one would think would be a major point.
The Minoan empire survived the natural disasters that resulted with the eruption of Thera, slowly dying off over the course of a century. Atlantis vanished in a single day and night, as Plato put it:
in a single day and night of misfortune all your warlike men in a body sank into the earth, and the island of Atlantis in like manner disappeared in the depths of the sea.
(All quotations from Plato taken from the Timaeus) It is quite a difference between a century and a single day and night, and this detail cannot be dismissed as a simple garbled translation.
So while I found the History channel special very interesting,
in my opinion it is not a good fit to be the real Atlantis. As for the true location of Atlantis, again just my opinion but apparently no one is looking in the site described by Plato, and as much as Schliemann looked for and found Troy by looking where Homer said it was, I think that no one is going to find Atlantis unless they search where Plato said it was. Just
my opinion!
Blindbowman mi amigo,
you do have a penchant for making the most extraordinary claims! Perhaps you do not perceive just how extraordinary your claims sound to others, but when you say you have found Aztlan and know the exact location of Atlantis, folks like me
want to see your proof that you have found what you claim to. I won't remind you of the many astounding claims you have posted here on T-net since we began our discussion, but SO FAR all I can say is that I remain un-convinced. This latest evolution of what you believe you have found to be Aztlan has fewer problems than some of the others you have proposed, but still takes some very conclusive evidence to prove it up and convince the historians. I hope you
will be able to provide this proof.
Good luck and good hunting amigos I hope you find the treasures that you seek.
your friend,
Roy ~ Oroblanco
