Dutchman & government conspiracy Request

Homar,

I have never advocated something of value at the heart, or the end of the trail. What I have said is that the Stone Maps will take you to the heart in my picture.

The 1 shown is in West Boulder Canyon. It curves to the east and takes you through a saddle into Little Boulder. Both sides of that saddle have claim markers. The claim marker to the South encompasses a ravine that is choked with brush. The reason for the brush, is a spring that keeps them healthy.
At the spring it is thick with bees.

I believe this area is where Ruth's body was actually found. Reread Sims' book. Here are some of the pictures we took:

DelMonteClaim.jpg

One of the claim markers.

StoneMapTrailToTheHeart.jpg

The trail to the heart. The formation is just in sight through the brush.

I have never chipped or marked the heart in any way.

Take care,

Joe
 

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Joe:

When was the claim made, by whom, and for what mineral ?
The reason I ask is, if the claim were to have been made by someone connected directly to the Tumlinsons, and before the Map Stones were carved, the claim records might add some valuable insight.

Regards:Wayne
 

Wayne,

I have a tag off of the marker shown in the picture. When I get home I will post the information on it.

One other thing.........Gene Reynolds and I had a number of conversations over the years. I told him my suspicions that Ruth's body had been found in that area. He asked if you could see Weaver's Needle from that claim. I sent him that very picture, and he told me that was the view that Ruth was looking for.

I don't know what information he had, or the source, but he was emphatic that the view in the picture was what Ruth was looking for. For me, that makes more sense than the old man hiking to the back side of Black Top Mesa. He only took that thermos of water because he knew that spring was there.


Take care,

Joe
 

Last edited:
Joe:

Ruth was looking for the LDM, using maps obtained in Mexico, and according to the note found with his body, had found it just prior to his death.
Since the area of your heart and trail photos, and the Del Monte claim where you believe Ruth was actually murdered just happen to also be on or at the end of the stone map trail, it would seem that the Stone Maps origin was also in Mexico. If the Del Monte claim yielded gold and was originally made by those who murdered Ruth in that location, how would this prove the Stone Maps to be fake ?

Regards:Wayne
 

somehiker said:
Joe:

Ruth was looking for the LDM, using maps obtained in Mexico, and according to the note found with his body, had found it just prior to his death.
Since the area of your heart and trail photos, and the Del Monte claim where you believe Ruth was actually murdered just happen to also be on or at the end of the stone map trail, it would seem that the Stone Maps origin was also in Mexico. If the Del Monte claim yielded gold and was originally made by those who murdered Ruth in that location, how would this prove the Stone Maps to be fake ?

Regards:Wayne
Click to expand...

Wayne,

I have mentioned before how, after decades of research and trips into the Supe's, I had concluded that the Stone Maps were created by someone who had intimate knowledge of the mountains and the many legends and stories that have been born there.

Tumlinson had to have the help of someone who had that knowledge. They had to know the terrain, the location of old mines, trails, caves and unique landmarks. In addition, as I have stated, they needed to be familiar with almost every story that has ever been told and where it took place in the mountains.

You can take such a person and, kind of, reverse engineer a very believable treasure tale. I proved that point by doing that very thing on this site. There were a number of seasoned treasure hunters who believed my story. That's because I used historical facts, less factual rumors that have been told for many years, and a good knowledge of the terrain.

It made for one hell of a yarn but it was just a story. That story is still here.

Take care,

Joe
 

On the sidelines for a while, however I hope that I am still welcomed here. For those who are looking for answers regarding the stones and the genius who conceived them, cactusjumper has it 100% correct when he wrote:
"I had concluded that the Stone Maps were created by someone who had intimate knowledge of the mountains and the many legends and stories that have been born there."

Fortunately for the arm-chair-researcher, this describes a very limited number of people. For those who have not yet become cemented in their beliefs about the stones, a good approach would be to make a list of possible suspects, then begin the long process of elimination by research, and more research.

It is a gift to be able to spend ones weekends exploring the Superstitions, but there is no shame in being part of the "book club". The printed word has kept this legend alive since the start and many writers have found treasure simply by publishing their theories. As somehiker has pointed out, it is no easy task to produce something of merit... in either print or film. For those contemplating a first adventure into the Wilderness Area, the experience is almost always an unforgettable one, however research (and some luck) can make it productive... and more importantly, safe.

Safety First!
 

Last edited:
HG,

I'm not sure my conclusions are 100% correct, but at least they are up to date and consistent with the evidence that is available.

I do read a great deal, but I have worn out a number of good boots in the Superstitions. A number of people denigrate books but I believe most of them just have a hard time reading.......anything. Simple mistakes that are repeated over and over again on this site, as well as others, make that obvious.

Many people, who were in the mountains for years, have written about their experiences and the information they have gleaned from other Dutch Hunters over the years. It seems pretty foolish that anyone would discount all of that, out of hand. You can learn something from everyone, even if it's where not to look.

My days of exploring the mountains are over. I am more than content with that, and enjoy reading about other people's adventures in the mountains. I don't really mind that people, like Kurt, insinuate that I'm a has been. In the strictest sense of the word, I am.

Thank you for the kind words.

Take care,

Joe
 

Joe,
Lets get it right...I hold nothing but respect and admiration for your years invested in the legend! Please don't make assumptions of my opinion of you...We may not agree on methodology,but I do respect your knowledge. I also have read all your posts....As far as reading books..HAHA, I have read all the same books as you,we just don't agree as to there content....Try not to take things personal....One of the reasons I never made it to the Dutchman camp out is because you had said you would not make it....Like I said "You're Awesome Joe"

Double-Jack Inc.
 

cactusjumper,
The interaction that you have had with ELBAYO on this site is unfortunate and quite honestly difficult to believe. Two men who share an equal passion for the Superstitions driven apart by an old and unresolved "misunderstanding"... we (the readers on this site) all lose out. There must be a way to close the rift... perhaps its just a matter of respect and courtesy which is lacking... on both sides. I avoid taking sides, however I want you to know that in the field ELBAYO has shown to be a kind and compassionate man (sorry if that sounds mushy). To his credit, I have never heard him speak disparagingly of anyone and after losing two brothers, I am sincerely grateful to have met and befriended him. I am equally grateful to have corresponded with you here on the forum and through PM. It is disappointing that your exploration of the SWA has come to an end. I think that most of the people on this site would have enjoyed your company around the evening campfire.
 

HG,

I have nothing personal against Kurt. I appreciate his last post to me, just as I do yours. It may be that I have been too critical of some of his early posts to me. In any case, it's not important enough, to me, to keep the barbs flying. I would always rather be civil, and will try to do that in the future.

Thanks for your input.

Take care,

Joe
 

I love this story! I hope some of you gentlemen can find a shared spirit and come together to tell your views of this wonderful story and share in the glory of it's end. I'll be watching and reading the posts to the end! :unhappysmiley:
 

Hal Croves said:
On the sidelines for a while, however I hope that I am still welcomed here. For those who are looking for answers regarding the stones and the genius who conceived them, cactusjumper has it 100% correct when he wrote:
"I had concluded that the Stone Maps were created by someone who had intimate knowledge of the mountains and the many legends and stories that have been born there."

Fortunately for the arm-chair-researcher, this describes a very limited number of people. For those who have not yet become cemented in their beliefs about the stones, a good approach would be to make a list of possible suspects, then begin the long process of elimination by research, and more research.

It is a gift to be able to spend ones weekends exploring the Superstitions, but there is no shame in being part of the "book club". The printed word has kept this legend alive since the start and many writers have found treasure simply by publishing their theories. As somehiker has pointed out, it is no easy task to produce something of merit... in either print or film. For those contemplating a first adventure into the Wilderness Area, the experience is almost always an unforgettable one, however research (and some luck) can make it productive... and more importantly, safe.

Safety First!
Click to expand...

Hal Croves

Oh yes' I agree too that they had intimate knowledge of the mountains. But the legends and stories came after the stone maps where made. That the stone maps where found like T said.
I don't believe T wrote a book or sold a story. He kept the maps till his death because he believed they held a key to wealth. And if the Heart shaped rock pic is the end of the trail. Then how can one follow the map, follow the heart. So the heart should be first on the trail, I'd think.

Take Care

Wrmickel1
 

Well Hello everyone, there no way that u can find the Peralta 1847 mine if u don't know where the Priest is, I am the Guide to the Peralta 1847 mine, I learned the stone maps in reverse and you must have a Reference point, which is the Priest rock formation. here's the order of the Peralta (5) stones: in reverse: from the Peralta 1847 mine to the Priest map #1, to Heart/Dagger map #2, to Trial map #3, the Cross is a symbol for a Window #4, and to Horse map #5. Good luck without me. lol,
for MoonGod (JMM)
 

MoonGod,
You got some photos of the inside of the mine that you could share with us?

Double-Jack
 

MoonGod finds 1847 mine said:
Well Hello everyone, there no way that u can find the Peralta 1847 mine if u don't know where the Priest is, I am the Guide to the Peralta 1847 mine, I learned the stone maps in reverse and you must have a Reference point, which is the Priest rock formation. here's the order of the Peralta (5) stones: in reverse: from the Peralta 1847 mine to the Priest map #1, to Heart/Dagger map #2, to Trial map #3, the Cross is a symbol for a Window #4, and to Horse map #5. Good luck without me. lol,
for MoonGod (JMM)
Click to expand...

MoonGod "HIGH"

Totally Wrong! Or In reverse, Wrong Totally!

Wrmickel1
 

cactusjumper said:
Wayne,

I have mentioned before how, after decades of research and trips into the Supe's, I had concluded that the Stone Maps were created by someone who had intimate knowledge of the mountains and the many legends and stories that have been born there.

Tumlinson had to have the help of someone who had that knowledge. They had to know the terrain, the location of old mines, trails, caves and unique landmarks. In addition, as I have stated, they needed to be familiar with almost every story that has ever been told and where it took place in the mountains.

You can take such a person and, kind of, reverse engineer a very believable treasure tale. I proved that point by doing that very thing on this site. There were a number of seasoned treasure hunters who believed my story. That's because I used historical facts, less factual rumors that have been told for many years, and a good knowledge of the terrain.

It made for one hell of a yarn but it was just a story. That story is still here.

Take care,

Joe
Click to expand...

Joe:

I must admit that the best advise I would give to any who are searching for a solution to the Stone Maps is to look at your topo maps and begin with those.
To read and re-read every historical account cited by yourself and others which relates to all of the known stones, as well as the histories of those who were in possession of the stone maps, and when. To put boots on the ground if possible, with safety first in mind, in order to see..first hand..the points of interest clearly indicated on your map.
Only then will they be able to understand both the maps and their history as well as you.
Hopefully they will heed my advice.

Regards:Wayne
 

somehiker said:
Joe:

I must admit that the best advise I would give to any who are searching for a solution to the Stone Maps is to look at your topo maps and begin with those.
To read and re-read every historical account cited by yourself and others which relates to all of the known stones, as well as the histories of those who were in possession of the stone maps, and when. To put boots on the ground if possible, with safety first in mind, in order to see..first hand..the points of interest clearly indicated on your map.
Only then will they be able to understand both the maps and their history as well as you.
Hopefully they will heed my advice.

Regards:Wayne
Click to expand...

Somehiker

Joe,s topo maps are based apoun the the symbolic trail on the trail map which means nothing. ( Its symbolic ) A journey, follow the map follow the heart. So with all do respect Joe,s topo maps are just a yarn. So why would you suggest anyone use them.

Wrmickel1
 

wrmickel1 said:
Somehiker

Joe,s topo maps are based apoun the the symbolic trail on the trail map which means nothing. ( Its symbolic ) A journey, follow the map follow the heart. So with all do respect Joe,s topo maps are just a yarn. So why would you suggest anyone use them.

Wrmickel1
Click to expand...

Wrm,

You are the first to figure out what my map is all about..........Kudo's.

Joe
 

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