DOC NOSS-Victorio Peak OR The Caballo Mountains

Bob, you won't ever get any complaints about flooding this thread with photos. Just compliments and appreciation!
 

Sorry for flood of pictures haven't had a day off in awhile. Here is a rock about six ft long with what looks like a cross on it, I first thought maybe natural but not sure, someone recently has tried to destroy it not sure why anyway here it is.View attachment 1149603









The second picture is a rock that I found awhile back not sure if it is three 7's or three L's and one D or one O but it is close to the point of rocks on the Jornada. I do not know if it is very old or not but it is easy to find if your looking for it . I haven't seen them on this forum before but that doesn't mean they aren't. View attachment 1149610 Would be interested if someone has seen the same order or sequence of letters or numbers which ever it is.

Hi mann,

Greetings! Nice pics, Thanks!...

Haven't noticed anyone apologizing for
not posting enough pics. Sometimes a bit
of a scarce event, for all the reasons. I am
enjoying also...

Always a pleasure, when someone can share
some good ones... :thumbsup: :sunny: :fish:
:cross:
 

Last edited:
The second picture is a rock that I found awhile back not sure if it is three 7's or three L's and one D or one O but it is close to the point of rocks on the Jornada. I do not know if it is very old or not but it is easy to find if your looking for it . I haven't seen them on this forum before but that doesn't mean they aren't. View attachment 1149610 Would be interested if someone has seen the same order or sequence of letters or numbers which ever it is.

I can't tell for sure using this tablet, but is it possible that the second "L" is actually an "I"? Zooming in on it is inconclusive for me. If it is an " I", then the carvings spell the word "LILO", which may be extremely important, but only in pairs with another carving, monument, landmark, etc to sight on. Good find.
 

*chuckles* LILO=LInux LOader, one of the earliest linux boot managers, now mostly replaced by grub, grub2 and syslinux.
Far as I know - Slackware is the only distro still using 'LILO' as the default boot manager.

I know - it has zilch to do with th'ing, but you never know ... maybe some linux-fan made it?
 

I have read a few articles on rocks carved with LILO. One site was lostadamsgold.com under the heading "articles" with a title of "did they get it" toward the end of the narrative. The same site had another article that went into further detail, but it has been removed. There was another I found in Hatchita N.M. I will try and find the picture and post it maybe someone will have better luck figuring out what it means. The same site mentioned above also has a picture of it as well with a lot better camera than I have. I will stick with the caballo mountains thanks for the reply.
 

I have read a few articles on rocks carved with LILO. One site was lostadamsgold.com under the heading "articles" with a title of "did they get it" toward the end of the narrative. The same site had another article that went into further detail, but it has been removed. There was another I found in Hatchita N.M. I will try and find the picture and post it maybe someone will have better luck figuring out what it means. The same site mentioned above also has a picture of it as well with a lot better camera than I have. I will stick with the caballo mountains thanks for the reply.


I'm out of the country for another week or so and don't have access to all my stuff but "LILO", according to my surveying buddy, is an archaic Spanish term that roughly means "on a line", or " straight line". The idea is that whomever carved the word was directing the viewer to stand facing the word and sight on another object from that position - thus giving the observer a target azimuth to follow, presumably leading him to something on that line. Of course, this requires a second point to line up with to establish the travel line. That second point could be a variety of things, but hopefully it would be man made.

There are a number of LILO's in the Cookes Range, some of them old, but some of them done in a different style by a deer hunter from Deming in the 1970's. That confuses things. The one you found may be an older one. If so, look for some other man made object (probably another carving) and plot up the line it forms. Maybe there's something on that line.
 

I'm out of the country for another week or so and don't have access to all my stuff but "LILO", according to my surveying buddy, is an archaic Spanish term that roughly means "on a line", or " straight line". The idea is that whomever carved the word was directing the viewer to stand facing the word and sight on another object from that position - thus giving the observer a target azimuth to follow, presumably leading him to something on that line. Of course, this requires a second point to line up with to establish the travel line. That second point could be a variety of things, but hopefully it would be man made.

There are a number of LILO's in the Cookes Range, some of them old, but some of them done in a different style by a deer hunter from Deming in the 1970's. That confuses things. The one you found may be an older one. If so, look for some other man made object (probably another carving) and plot up the line it forms. Maybe there's something on that line.



I will try your and treasureminder2's advice thanks for the theory's.
 

Also, its very expensive and difficult to implement. A Samsung NX210 camera converted to a LWIR imaging chip is around $325. But then you have to acquire the lightest, most distortion free lens you can get, which will run between $700 to $1,000! Then you take your expensive camera setup and mount it in a foam UAV plane, which in and of itself has thousands of dollars in electronics hardware. Then you launch all this expensive equipment on a pre-programmed flight and hope it doesn't fly into the side of a cliff or cartwheel on landing. What fun, huh? :laughing7:

Sooooo, what that problem with that? lets do it. :hello:
 

Sooooo, what that problem with that? lets do it. :hello:

Already in process. But had to come up with a chunk of cash to replace my heater and convert from a swamp cooler to refrigerated air, so haven't had any money so far this year to make any progress.
 

View attachment 1090587 So, it 'is' a Jesuit map to the deposits at Victorio Peak and Caballo mt.

Without that date, I would not consider the Map (stone), but since it was in the middle 1800's, yes, this work on the Caballo stone could be, and is acceptable. ---- it matches the other map's date by 3 years, and explains a lot.

So the Mission story does have a base. The pieces are falling in line.

the horse's tail is the trail from the rio to the eastern side of Caballo, where the treasure deposits are located, even has the same sun symbol indicating the setting sun. Notice the cross on the backside of Caballo

But where is the Pedro on the horse stone ??.

View attachment 1090587 View attachment 1090601View attachment 1090603

RdTTT you mention the symbol for the setting sun on each map. what is the significance of this symbol? does it establish the direction West on the map?
thanks
wr
 

I believe shadows are not accurate treasure signs . Shadows could change with the human or the Nature intervention .
Shadows are wrong !

Shadow.jpg
 

tm2: you amaze me with your memory of all these places and signs. you should produce a map with all the signs, places, caves, treasure sites, etc on it.
and then send it to me :laughing7:
 

I believe shadows are not accurate treasure signs . Shadows could change with the human or the Nature intervention .
Shadows are wrong !

View attachment 1153356

markmar,

Very nice shadow example! Now if those people were to stay
right there posed, like rocks do, for different hours, days, seasons...

While shadow signs do change quite a lot, if they are stationary,
and say, nothing naturally catastrophic, no vandalism, or destruction
has been done to them to really change their original intentions...

The weathering will not change the shadow S/S, so they cannot
do their intended job, and speak to the observer. I have seen
some, that indeed only show at a certain time of day, or only
at a certain time of year...

That window my be longer, like a month or two, or very short,
maybe in hours, days. Then when the artist/maker stayed
at the location for more than one season, or for a whole
year cycle of all of the seasons, they seem, at least
from what I've seen, to have continued to work
on the same sign, or group of signs, not losing
the original sign(s), but modifying, and adding
more intricacy to them. So then they become
more than one sign, though the difference
may only be seen, say 5-7 months apart,
for example. Or, by adding another, only
seasonal sign, and amazingly at that... :sunny: :fish:
:cross:
Yes, they could be worn, changed, or wrong, but the
interpreter, should be able to see/figure this out...:thumbsup:
 

Last edited:
I don't have Google Earth loaded on this small note book laptop

so best I can do is give a link to Google maps .

for the above post of the boulders with the Shadow Symbol of the Sun

use this link ,
Dead center of the image is the location of the Boulder with the Sun Carving

if you scroll west ( to the left ) you will see the old Stone Cabin Mine House and the Spring .

Padre La Rue had a mining camp set up at this Spring

also , just south by 500 yards , you will see a HUGE Boulder with some smaller Boulders set atop of it .
THAT Boulder has the La Rue Map painted on it ( now defaced with spray paint )

Straight East of that Map Rock Boulder of La Rue , up a steep canyon and on the right near the head
of the Canyon , you can see a small high Canyon above ,

in that Canyon , is La Rue's Rich Silver mine , you have to climb up to get to it . good silver to be had there
easy to pick it out .

here is the Map link

https://www.google.com/maps/place/L...2!3m1!1s0x86de1ac745069869:0x636dd01df13f32bd
 

markmar,

Very nice shadow example! Now if those people were to stay
right there posed, like rocks do, for different hours, days, seasons...

While shadow signs do change quite a lot, if they are stationary,
and say, nothing naturally catastrophic, no vandalism, or destruction
has been done to them to really change their original intentions...

The weathering will not change the shadow S/S, so they cannot
do their intended job, and speak to the observer. I have seen
some, that indeed only show at a certain time of day, or only
at a certain time of year...

That window my be longer, like a month or two, or very short,
maybe in hours, days. Then when the artist/maker stayed
at the location for more than one season, or for a whole
year cycle of all of the seasons, they seem, at least
from what I've seen, to have continued to work
on the same sign, or group of signs, not losing
the original sign(s), but modifying, and adding
more intricacy to them. So then they become
more than one sign, though the difference
may only be seen, say 5-7 months apart,
for example. Or, by adding another, only
seasonal sign, and amazingly at that... :sunny: :fish:
:cross:
Yes, they could be worn, changed, or wrong, but the
interpreter, should be able to see/figure this out...:thumbsup:

Crosse

And what will happen if in that certain day , when a certain rock should to shows you the way , is a cloudy day ?
You will return after one year and so on ?
Exist many reasons why I believe the shadows are not used in treasure signs . One reason is how required many " IF " .
 

Crosse

And what will happen if in that certain day , when a certain rock should to shows you the way , is a cloudy day ?
You will return after one year and so on ?
Exist many reasons why I believe the shadows are not used in treasure signs . One reason is how required many " IF " .

Yes, that is so true...

What they did do, was to be aware, & know all about that...

So what could, and Did they do about it, in case on the

day that they, or someone else, that was 'in the know',

with all of the proper training and experience, happened

to return to the Treasure/Mine site, on a cloudy day?...

They set up rocks in more than one spot, in the immediate

area, and carved multiple carvings of the same, or closely similar

objects, to be interpreted, by 'The Initiated'... Some of those carvings

did not require a sun shadow, to be seen, even though they may even

be hidden, right in plain sight. Oh, yeah, they would likely be greatly

enhanced, if the shading were present. Some would disappear, and

some show in a limited window, as has been discussed. Here's the

thing. Even multiple carvings, may go unnoticed, a little while, or,

maybe even forever... Unseen, by Avid Deer hunters, for example.

Who are skilled and experienced, in Tracking Deer tracks, big Cats,

Elk, Moose, Caribou, Wild Hogs, Turkey, etc., etc. ... But, those same

very experienced hunters, don't necessarily know a carved, man shaped

rock or rocks, even if it is staring at them right in the face... And that is

just how good they, the carvers/workers/monument builders were...

The easy key to seeing, what even the trained and experienced eye, may not

even pick up at first, for who knows how long... Is to take pictures. Lots of angles,

distances, lighting, oh did I say angles... Yes it is much better, the brighter the sun,

and easier to see what was done, so to speak... But once you have really studied,

and have gone back over and over, your pictures on your screen, and looked at

the rocks at the location. If it IS a highly marked area, not just a marker along

the trail, you will begin to see there is something(s) there. Your camera

just makes it so easy for you, (as I learned from people talking here on

TN) by compressing the shadows/images. Then, when you take all of

that compressed Info, so to speak, and enlarge it, it becomes so

much easier to see. If you have been or ever are in a highly

carved area, you will not believe what you have often walked

right past, when you do the pics, even seeing things later,
that you had initially missed, knowing what to look for... :sunny: :fish:

:cross: ...Besides the real dark shadowing of the sun, just the dim
shading of daylight, will look possibly like something, to the naked
eye, in some cases... Then, your cameras' picture taking abilities,
will reveal more... Yes, there is always likely much more, to
be seen, in the light/reflections/shadows/contrasts,
of our ingenious, sometimes secretive sun...

I will try to get together, and present a little example, Amigo...
...Crosse
 

Last edited:
markmar,

Very nice shadow example! Now if those people were to stay
right there posed, like rocks do, for different hours, days, seasons...

While shadow signs do change quite a lot, if they are stationary,
and say, nothing naturally catastrophic, no vandalism, or destruction
has been done to them to really change their original intentions...

The weathering will not change the shadow S/S, so they cannot
do their intended job, and speak to the observer. I have seen
some, that indeed only show at a certain time of day, or only
at a certain time of year...

That window my be longer, like a month or two, or very short,
maybe in hours, days. Then when the artist/maker stayed
at the location for more than one season, or for a whole
year cycle of all of the seasons, they seem, at least
from what I've seen, to have continued to work
on the same sign, or group of signs, not losing
the original sign(s), but modifying, and adding
more intricacy to them. So then they become
more than one sign, though the difference
may only be seen, say 5-7 months apart,
for example. Or, by adding another, only
seasonal sign, and amazingly at that... :sunny: :fish:
:cross:
Yes, they could be worn, changed, or wrong, but the
interpreter, should be able to see/figure this out...:thumbsup:

When I was looking for the ldm. One of the maps showed a coyote. I found what I believed was the right area. There was no coyote to be found. After a day of searching. I returned to camp so my wife and I could eat. At 5.30 in the afternoon the shadow was creeping up the mountain. Then almost like magic there stood the coyote right where the map said it was supposed to be. It happened again at sunrise the next morning.
I know for a fact shadows are a big part of the markers. Angels also matter. I have two pics of the same hill. One shows random rocks pointing up. The other just three feet up the same hil. Those rocks are a large pair of praying hands.
 

Yes, that is so true...

What they did do, was to be aware, & know all about that...

So what could, and Did they do about it, in case on the

day that they, or someone else, that was 'in the know',

with all of the proper training and experience, happened

to return to the Treasure/Mine site, on a cloudy day?...

They set up rocks in more than one spot, in the immediate

area, and carved multiple carvings of the same, or closely similar

objects, to be interpreted, by 'The Initiated'... Some of those carvings

did not require a sun shadow, to be seen, even though they may even

be hidden, right in plain sight. Oh, yeah, they would likely be greatly

enhanced, if the shading were present. Some would disappear, and

some show in a limited window, as has been discussed. Here's the

thing. Even multiple carvings, may go unnoticed, a little while, or,

maybe even forever... Unseen, by Avid Deer hunters, for example.

Who are skilled and experienced, in Tracking Deer tracks, big Cats,

Elk, Moose, Caribou, Wild Hogs, Turkey, etc., etc. ... But, those same

very experienced hunters, don't necessarily know a carved, man shaped

rock or rocks, even if it is staring at them right in the face... And that is

just how good they, the carvers/workers/monument builders were...

The easy key to seeing, what even the trained and experienced eye, may not

even pick up at first, for who knows how long... Is to take pictures. Lots of angles,

distances, lighting, oh did I say angles... Yes it is much better, the brighter the sun,

and easier to see what was done, so to speak... But once you have really studied,

and have gone back over and over, your pictures on your screen, and looked at

the rocks at the location. If it IS a highly marked area, not just a marker along

the trail, you will begin to see there is something(s) there. Your camera

just makes it so easy for you, (as I learned from people talking here on

TN) by compressing the shadows/images. Then, when you take all of

that compressed Info, so to speak, and enlarge it, it becomes so

much easier to see. If you have been or ever are in a highly

carved area, you will not believe what you have often walked

right past, when you do the pics, even seeing things later,
that you had initially missed, knowing what to look for... :sunny: :fish:

:cross: ...Besides the real dark shadowing of the sun, just the dim
shading of daylight, will look possibly like something, to the naked
eye, in some cases... Then, your cameras' picture taking abilities,
will reveal more... Yes, there is always likely much more, to
be seen, in the light/reflections/shadows/contrasts,
of our ingenious, sometimes secretive sun...

I will try to get together, and present a little example, Amigo...
...Crosse


Crosse

You are right about to take pictures from the sites . I used this method and I have see many signs in the pictures which were not visible in the field .
But ... the best pictures where the signs are clearly visible , were taken in a cloudy day or after the Sunset . From this , I understood how the most of the treasure carved signs/symbols are placed into the shadows , mostly to the north , behind or close to a big rock which in the sun light attracts our attention and hides the marks .
Don't use shadows . Search in shadows .
And . to put a rock up on another is a trail marking but unsure how this could leads to a mine or a treasure site .
 

Top Member Reactions

Users who are viewing this thread

Latest Discussions

Back
Top