DOC NOSS-Victorio Peak OR The Caballo Mountains

Finding four digits like roger explains does confirm his statement. I have always knew roger knew what he was talking about by his description of the areas he has walked. He has shared a wealth of knowledge, and the caballos is another chapter. But roger has not even scratched the surface of the history here. Now most will agree LA rues mine is within a 20 mile stretch. But the old maps has it at mineral hill on the east side of the organs as you descend down hwy 70. The tailings will show low grade ore of silver copper and iron. I plan on taking notes and walking out rogers routes just to say I walked these trails. Talk to any local geologist and they will tell you where the gold has been found, they type and way it lays. The military is too lazy to mine, they let you do the work then take it from you. I hope folks like roger share their story's someday.
 

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ello Cascsa, :coffee2::coffee2:, for your information I am not interested in the deposits in the caballo & Victorio Peak other than that they fill out the illegal mining in Northern western Mexico, some of which was done by the Jesuits. I am interested in how they transported it to Rome. to do this one must prove that no other source in the area could possibly do it. This includes the La Rue mines.

To help NP sent me a little map showing the path from Mexico to the present area. Surprisingly it is correct as I can show.

If you like histoiy go to the Tayopa sites in ( TN )

http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/tayopa/
 

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Now thats a treasure lead. I have found some old trails marked by field grass as nothing grows on them. They lead up a mountain and just stop. Now when you transport, do you mean from the hole to the base of the mountain, or the trail in between. I would say burro or mule, 200 pounds per animal, 4 miles a day. Outlaws used to make easy pickings on these mule trains. I suspect the ore was worked to some degree. Then finished in Mexico. I always look for old leather that's buried. If a mule dropped, it and gold was buried on the spot. Now Indians had a different way of hiding the shiny yellow metal. Poncho Villa had his own way to cart off the gold. LBJ had his own way to cart off the gold. Some folks have touched on how or why a Jesuit would mine gold. They were the first ones here and the kings rules most likely didn't kick in for awhile. Also once a governor was given a area, I suspect gold was squirreled away. Now why such deep holes for a treasure room? Why not just transport it. What could they ever spend that much gold on in the new world? The fact Spain made two fast exits also leaves the question what happened to the gold they couldn't carry. Then of course the outlaw LA Rue, did he have more than one mine? Was the area rich enough to support a rich mine? Newspaper reports says yes. Historical Geology reports say yes. Legends say yes. Being builders, Jesuits understood ancient techniques the romans used to move large objects. Signs of such equipment can still be found today. Look at your own Tayopa Mine. I am in the belief materials to do such a feat was carried hundreds of miles if necessary. But where are the tailing piles. I can only guess they used the crushed ore to make roads. It would explain areas that aren't effected by flash flooding or drainage. But why the deep holes? They don't appear to be following a vein, but working just close enough to transport to a safe place. The places I see were defensive positions, had water and game. Could supports hundreds of slaves and animals. If you don't have that, you most likely don't have a working hole. Now what we have as scrub brush used to be waist high field grass. Water was plentiful, so you can't look at sites as present day. Even the Rio Grande was moved and the real route only known to EBID and landowners who know the landmarks. Any part of this could be a post of its own. I get my info from many sources. I have walked and hiked trails, carried and busted rock. Took soil samples, looked for areas with possible camps. You can see where dirt has been worked, meaning dynamited in some places.The kings trail, does it exist. Possibly, but how did they get a mule or wagon over it. Had to be one heck of a pulley system with large counter weights. Trail appears to be marked with human silhouette's made in stone. Nothing grand, just simple signs pointing the way. Distance and direction by size height and combination of facial expressions on the rabbit, duck, or turtle for example. Land was marked much as we do it modernly, there was different trails depending on what was being moved. So how did they mark all these sign but keep things uniformed. Easier than you would believe. As we set our watch to the sun, moon, and planets, I suspect sites were laid out the same. Two men, a staff and a piece of rope is all they needed. Remember the first explorers were also navigators, they could plot location without line of sight. The secret to sites can be found at the site. But I have noticed a cypher could be made by a painting, or etching on a piece of glass, a statues cut into one of the four winds, or even light and shadow signs. There is more to that navigation, but the layout of the trails were strategic. You get on the trail you should be able to follow it from Utah to Mexico, to any port. There was expeditions and those expeditions did find routes to the west coast. Some older maps, before 1847 can show these routes. So is it possible caravans of skilled labor went about marking trails to transport gold and silver to fund a war. Why not. I think the question is who taught the Jesuit? What became of them, did they become mormons. Did the Mormons become wealthy southern landowners who formed the kgc? Who taught the Toltec, Olmec,and Aztec. Last what about the giants, as told in the bible. The people of Atlantis as written by Plato. OK last tidbit for real. King Solomons search for copper.....we may never know. What was the question again.
 

ok casco

#1 Jesuits started with Ignacio loyola in 1500's What became of them __ They now control the Vatican i'e. the Pope.

#2 The Aztecs migrated from Jerusalem, across the med basis. stayed for while at Aztlan ( the shallows of of Spain,the remains of Atlantis, hence the similar spelling then crossed to North America, across to Ariz, then down to Mexico city

#3 Giants, some existed down here. a series of burial caves lies approx 1/2 day by mule from here I have posted extensively of them.

# 4 Atlantis, It lies approx where the ancients claimed it was - off of the coast of Spain, I also posted on it in here .

http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/treasure-legends/78764-atlantis-4.html post #52
 

I put that out there to show many people have walked over this ground. I do believe ancient wooden cranes, and pullys helped with elevation. I believe mules or donkeys were used to pack the ore in various stages. You do have a good understanding. But what of the tailings, were they crushed and spread out? The dirt and rock had to go somewhere. There is also a large Montezuma Eagle etched into the mountain here. Each order that came left its own marks. But that stuff tends to get folks riled so I don't go there. I don't doubt anyone's ability. I think they knew how the gold laid and followed it. Most being brought up by volcanic action. I have put this in its simplistic terms as I am a novice hunter. I may take a walk and see if I can find rogers trail. I know the entrance to the canyon had signs all over the place. Most leading north and up high. But some was down low. The east side held a great seal of a sign, a lazy "y" I believe. The caballos is all marked up to. I would like to know how long it took to go from say Sante Fe to Mexico City with 200 loaded mules. That's roughly 40,000 pounds of goods. That's a lot of gold and silver. The yardage required to move it in over burden would be enormous. It would take a small army to protect it. Plus I don't get why they would bury or jid the kings fifth but mark the place they his it. Your question how did they move it, it was moved in stages I suspect. Most likely the same was we would do it today. I have found either silver or mercury in my samples at one mine. I know mercury was used as a preservative. I just don't understand why or how it worked. It was far better at gold retrieval. Moving dirt and rocks in rough terrain was hard work. Besides a few stone tools and mud buildings, not much to be found. I think Noss had some help with his finds and tried to cash in on it. After studying the layout of Victoria Peak, there had to be at least one entrance to drag all that booty. Going in from the top one bar or crate at a time doesn't sound correct. The vent was most likely to remove the large boulder that Boss said guarded the treasure room. The area showed great battles, and rumor of a tunnel from a nearby ranch. You may been the on to share this also. Are aware of Nick Flemming's site. It too is very close in design what Roger described. I have seen hollowed out areas in mountains that show signs of metal working next to a mine. It looks like ore was taken below, crushed and sifted, then sent back up to be fired. Bit there is also sign that the caravans would stop at a camp before leaving or entering a work area. Very cool they way some of this appears to be set up. I'm no Archy, but can see signs of folks in the past. I don't focus on actual sign so much as I look at the geology and what I find at the pit mines. I have found some deep sealed mines, and haven't bothered to get around the cap stone yet. Its been said you would have hell to pay if you got caught with any old gold and silver. Seems artifacts of gold have been found. Without 60 slaves and ropes and cables, how does one tackle a large undertaking.
 

I'm sorry to say, but none of the ideas of people migrating from the ME to the Americas is supported by DNA evidence. Food for thought.
 

And I don't want to divert to satellite stuff again, but any mine that produced large amounts of metals will have well worn paths leading right to them. As well, as pack animals and people walked those trails, the rock and dirt is ground down to a much finer particle size than the non-trail areas around the trails. This preserves the trails for a very long time, so they should be visible today given access to the right satellite imagery data.

And if the tailings were being dumped away from a large mine to hide its location, think of the effort involved to do so, and how likely it is they would have gone to such lengths. And again, there would be trails left behind to the dump areas...
 

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Matt my friend, :coffee2::coffee2:, you are correct ,especially since most of a mine's work consists in removing barren, or waste rock from the workings. For every mule load of precious metal, they probably had to move 100 to 1000 mules loads of barren rock.

That had to go some where, sometimes it was just dumped dumped in arroyos etc. but dump rock always remains easily distinguishable from natural waste / erosion rock for years.

Then there is the question of smelting that ore concentrate, that would have left multi tons of slag etc. esily visible, and not looking like any other rock.

So far I have sen no evidence or report on this, so the dore' bars must have been smelted somewhere else.

As far as caves go they apparently took advantage of natural crevices, just as they did at Tayopa.

I am not atempting to throw a monkey wrench into things, but I must know where those bars originated so that I can finnish the cotton picking book..
 

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Roger I have no quarrel with you , I believe that you know the mts in question as well, or better than anyone else, So please understand my picky picky attitude.

The treasures of Victorio Peak / Caballo mts are yours and the readers. Mine are in Old Mexico.
 

Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp said:
Matt my friend, :coffee2::coffee2:, you are correct ,especially since most of a mine's work consists in removing barren, or waste rock from the workings. For every mule load of precious metal, they probably had to move 100 to 1000 mules loads of barren rock.

That had to go some where, sometimes it was just dumped dumped in arroyos etc. but dump rock always remains easily distinguishable from natural waste / erosion rock for years.

Then there is the question of smelting that ore concentrate, that would have left multi tons of slag etc. esily visible, and not looking like any other rock.

So far I have sen no evidence or report on this, so the dore' bars must have been smelted somewhere else.

As far as caves go they apparently took advantage of natural crevices, just as they did at Tayopa.

I am not atempting to throw a monkey wrench into things, but I must know where those bars originated so that I can finnish the cotton picking book..
Click to expand...

Your observations are correct. You have to think about the details, and not just the broad strokes. It sounds so good to think that mines were hidden by dumping the tailings elsewhere, but that is no simple task. Now if you are a one man operation working a small adit somewhere, that is different. but if you have a mine that is supposedly producing tens of tons of metals, there will be a lot of tailings unless the ore is very rich and easy to extract. Those facts cannot be ignored.
 

Tailings

To address that question on one mine in particular

La Rue's Mine in Dorcey Canyon

On the South facing side of the Peak the mine is in
You can spot a Deep wide crevice .

Tons upon tons of tailings from the mine are sitting in that arroyo .


Hint

The miners would fill the mine with wood ( rather Mesquite Burl , greasewood for oil , and or Oak )

They set it on fire
the moister in the Rock would dry up
and the rock would literally blast apart , it as well soften the rock .

Built a Campfire right up against a Boulder , sit and watch the rock pop and spit layers off of it .

That's your test

After the fire burned itself out
By diverting water down through the flue , they could wash the lighter debris out of the mine

and simply sweep the heavy deposits up and sluice them for the metals .

Not always did they use arristas or crushers or stamp mills .

they did not need to

as for the tailings from these burn and sluice operations , not much more then gravel was left
of the stone .

so to simply sweep this light baked limestone or Basalt off and down the slopes of
the mountain , served to allow it to blend back into the soil after a while .

In some operations , they simply swept it aside after they sluiced it with water .

This made Hard Rock endeavors much easier for them .

As stated , it made the stone very soft , and as well as melted much of the Ore
out of the rock into little balls or threads , which they could just pick up as they gathered it .

The Book : " De Rey Metalica " written in the 1500's and edited , translated , and republished
by President Truman while he was a student .

It is available to buy today
My Dad's copy is in some one Else's hands right now .

But , this missive should explain enough for you .
 

Matt
you alternate between Durango Co. and NM ?

Steaming Bean is where I have Coffee every morning while in Durango

do you know Hudge ?

if you know him , you know whom I mean

he is here in Portland right now .

I love that danged Town Durango .
fun place to tease the girls with my pretty face .
 

Sorry Roger, I do not drink coffee, so I have never been in the Steaming Bean.

I appreciated your comments about mining techniques, but where would a large enough volume of water come from in a mountainous, desert environment to flush a large mine out through its air vents?
 

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