DOC NOSS-Victorio Peak OR The Caballo Mountains

[UncleMatt]

Okay, here is a question for you all to ponder: What is so special about 15S 4W 21&22? Every single claim made by Jerry and Karen Cheatham are within those 2 sections. The center of those two sections lie at GPS 32.989311°, -107.255755° and 32.988812°, -107.238275°.

 

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[UncleMatt]

Nichts on the coffee, but thanks. Now if you have a beautiful daughter you can send over to shovel this steak and greens in my mouth, I would go for that!

 

[Not Peralta]

UncleMatt, so tell everyone whats so special.np

 

[UncleMatt]

That's where the space aliens must have landed to hide their space gold is what I am thinking!

(I have no idea NP)

I can tell you this though: most of that area is blanketed with active claims....

 

[Not Peralta]

UncleMatt, the claims are the only area jerry c. said they could find a rock formation that looked like rabbit ears in the caballo's, and if your really bored,contact anyone with that family and see if the secret aliens doesn't change your life forever np

 

[UncleMatt]

I am a space alien NP

So are these rabbit ears perhaps the fox ears we have seen?

And I sure don't see rabbit ears on Google Earth!

 

[gollum]

Maybe Rincon basin?

Mike

 

[UncleMatt]

Mike, can you share a GPS for the Rincon Spring? If not here, via PM maybe?

 

[UncleMatt]

oops, wrong rincon, my mistake. But I would like to know where the spring near the town of Rincon is supposed to be. If anyone knows, please post.

 

[somehiker]

That's a good point, but why would the cautious, secretive Jesuits "sign" a treasure map unless as some sort of proof of ownership? The omega, according to mainstream treasure lore, also is used to denote "end", or " tunnel//cave", maybe others. Or so the stories go (I'm ambivalent). One thing that bothers me about identifying these Caballo/VP treasure caves as Jesuit caches of Mexican mines is, obviously, why weren't they recovered by the Jesuits? I realize current theory states that since Jesuit mining in the New World was forbidden prior to their expulsion, they had no legal right of ownership. However, what would have prevented them from removing the caches clandestinely at a later date? Knowing their history, the question is troublesome, and also relates directly to the integrity of the Noss map.

Not a signature as proof of ownership, but a "siglum" known only to those with the need to know, as a means to identify a location of particular significance. This symbol, which treasure seekers have called the "omega" does not appear to have been widely used or frequently incorporated in monograms by the Jesuits, so it's appearance on a map or other document, or even in the field would be unlikely to arouse suspicions directed specifically towards the order.

Have they been back ? Perhaps they have, as I suspect this "Noss" map may indicate...or at least a plan to. The French intervention would have given them the opportunity, a "best chance" to recover whatever they felt was worth the risks. Then again, the operation may not have gone beyond the planning stage or failed due to lack of sufficient information. I'm inclined, due to where and how the map is said to have been acquired, to favor the latter.

 

[treasminder2]

Anyone got a Match ?

I have two mules and sister Sarah on VHS , I'm willing to trade for a nice match .

 

[somehiker]

Nope

Never met him

Or even heard of him till yesterday

Sounds like a lawyer's name

heh heh

Can't say as I've ever met an alien, or been shown around by one. So I ain't been probed or had my brain cells scrambled like them that have. No G-Men either, and no torture to report other than a posterior full of cholla spikes and maybe sore feet once in awhile. I'm not particularly religious when it comes to pogo sticks and such, but I've seen my share of hearts in the hills, so I think one or more of them could have been used on a map by someone who was. No force required, since it was already there.

 

[UncleMatt]

My space alien quip was just for grins, not meant to demean anyone or their ideas on this.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

just listening. go some hiker

 

[sdcfia]

Not a signature as proof of ownership, but a "siglum" known only to those with the need to know, as a means to identify a location of particular significance. This symbol, which treasure seekers have called the "omega" does not appear to have been widely used or frequently incorporated in monograms by the Jesuits, so it's appearance on a map or other document, or even in the field would be unlikely to arouse suspicions directed specifically towards the order.

Have they been back ? Perhaps they have, as I suspect this "Noss" map may indicate...or at least a plan to. The French intervention would have given them the opportunity, a "best chance" to recover whatever they felt was worth the risks. Then again, the operation may not have gone beyond the planning stage or failed due to lack of sufficient information. I'm inclined, due to where and how the map is said to have been acquired, to favor the latter.

For the sake of argument, let's assume the "Noss map" is also the "Willie map". It's inconceivable that the Jesuits would allow a treasure map leading to such monumental wealth to somehow end up in the hands of the likes of Willie, a simple itinerant, and later, Noss, a career swindler. However, from what I've found in these threads, I don't believe that we've seen the actual Willie map. Another Willie option is that it was that "seven suns" LaRue thing. That possibility seems doubtful, as that map provided little detail that would allow lucky Willie to succeed, unless Noss figured it out. Lots of maps were showing up during those Noss days, and I suspect there's much more to the Willie Map story than we know.

But, one map at a time. Concerning the "Noss map": If the map was the Jesuits', why wouldn't they use it? Would a recovery effort by the Jesuits be "worth the risks"? Thousands of bars, multi-tons of gold, seems like a decent risk/benefit ratio for anyone, especially the Jesuits.

" Lack of sufficient information"? Then of what good was the "Noss map" in the first place, unless perhaps Noss drew it up to impress investors in his VP schemes, adding Jesuit references to strengthen its appeal? It seems to me that with Noss's mindset and his treasure hunting knowledge, creating this map would have been child's play.

 

[UncleMatt]

I'm still hoping someone will post the location of the spring near Rincon...

 

[Not Peralta]

REAL, amigo, I am second in line for just listening ,have a hot on me. np

 

[somehiker]

For the sake of argument, let's assume the "Noss map" is also the "Willie map". It's inconceivable that the Jesuits would allow a treasure map leading to such monumental wealth to somehow end up in the hands of the likes of Willie, a simple itinerant, and later, Noss, a career swindler. However, from what I've found in these threads, I don't believe that we've seen the actual Willie map. Another Willie option is that it was that "seven suns" LaRue thing. That possibility seems doubtful, as that map provided little detail that would allow lucky Willie to succeed, unless Noss figured it out. Lots of maps were showing up during those Noss days, and I suspect there's much more to the Willie Map story than we know.

But, one map at a time. Concerning the "Noss map": If the map was the Jesuits', why wouldn't they use it? Would a recovery effort by the Jesuits be "worth the risks"? Thousands of bars, multi-tons of gold, seems like a decent risk/benefit ratio for anyone, especially the Jesuits.

" Lack of sufficient information"? Then of what good was the "Noss map" in the first place, unless perhaps Noss drew it up to impress investors in his VP schemes, adding Jesuit references to strengthen its appeal? It seems to me that with Noss's mindset and his treasure hunting knowledge, creating this map would have been child's play.

Ok, suppose we do. Powerful organizations comprised of highly intelligent professionals, even as well versed in secret protocols as these Jesuits seemingly were at the time are not infallible, then or now. After all, they did get themselves packed, lock and stock, right out of the colonial world by the hands of their jealous rivals, didn't they ? I would also assume copies of NP's photo of this map have been seen before, and there may be other paper copies of the map as well as the one shown in the photo album. But I've already spent, and probably wasted, too much time on this diversion. So for now I'll concur with your theory that Noss himself created the map as a prop for his VP schemes and set it aside for later reference should I develop a greater interest in VP or the Caballos.

 

[sdcfia]

Ok, suppose we do. Powerful organizations comprised of highly intelligent professionals, even as well versed in secret protocols as these Jesuits seemingly were at the time are not infallible, then or now. After all, they did get themselves packed, lock and stock, right out of the colonial world by the hands of their jealous rivals, didn't they ? I would also assume copies of NP's photo of this map have been seen before, and there may be other paper copies of the map as well as the one shown in the photo album. But I've already spent, and probably wasted, too much time on this diversion. So for now I'll concur with your theory that Noss himself created the map as a prop for his VP schemes and set it aside for later reference should I develop a greater interest in VP or the Caballos.

We tend to attach a lot of romance, excitement and adventure to this entire "treasure hunting" genre, probably due in part to the many books, movies and legends that promote that image. Man also seems to possess a genetic greed tendency, which makes many of us easy prey to those who wish to take advantage of our urges. People such as your Jesuits, however, and the other groups who actually have been able to acquire and control these gold hoards, are not like us. They, as you say, are highly qualified professionals and are well-prepared to handle the responsibilities of ownership and control, whatever those may be. They are methodical, unemotional, and probably textbook sociopathic - that's how they acquired and keep power.

The Caballo-VP enigma is interesting because this is one instance where the curtain was allegedly pulled back to reveal the great Oz, if only momentarily. We have a veritable encyclopedia of treasure legends all over the USA which hint at enormous riches. The subcultures surrounding each legend are manned by staunch hounds on the verge of catching the fox, but never quite able to find the final piece to the puzzle. At Caballo-VP, however, Milton Noss apparently upped the game. Noss was ostensibly himself a sociopath, but his actions released a lot of new information into the treasure hunting community and the general public. Much has been promised to the faithful in AZ, TX, OK, VA and many other places, but Noss delivered at Caballo-VP. The question is whether he was just a fortunate treasure hunter, a useful idiot or a good soldier.

It seems like your interest in this category is linked to your AZ project, and there well may be a connection. I wouldn't term your interest here a waste of time, although that "Noss map" may be a dead duck of sorts.

 

[Not Peralta]

TREASURE MYSTERY"S ARE CREATED. In one way or another, just like conspiracy's, one goes with the other, one feeds the other in many ways. when they are full theres nothing left
but excrement. this is when the treasure hunter or researcher gets to eat what is written or spoken. this is the true food for thought process of a treasure mystery. np just have a nother hot and keep on thinking.