DOC NOSS-Victorio Peak OR The Caballo Mountains

[Not Peralta]

No matter what treasure you are working on, you always want to weed out the truth between fact or fiction.
A lot of stories end up being nothing more than fantasy or urban legend.
Another thing to consider, is you may work for years on certain treasures only to learn that it was recovered years ago. Oh, well.

Some treasure legends, if you are lucky enough to find one, to some people it doesn't matter at all.
No matter what evidence you have showing that it was found, people will not believe it. And they still keep right on hunting for it.
Because they refuse to believe that their theory was wrong and someone else found it first.

Treasure Net is probably one of the best things that has happened for treasure hunters.
It has been a means of communication for someone like you and me to share our life time experiences.
Without Treasure Net this exchange of ideas and experience couldn't have happened.

With that said, I now want to help or confuse.
When I first laid my eyes on the map that I posted, the first things that I noticed were:
The Heart, the Omega Sign, the circles with the dots in them, the crosses, the river and Santa Fe.
They are only a few symbols but enough to take notice of and compare with the "stone tablets".
The symbology or symbolism is the same. It seems too obvious to ignore.
Was the original map that produced the making of the "stone tablets" a similar map to the one that I posted?
Was it the same map maker? I could be wrong, but I don't think so.
But it very well could have been his apprentice.

Just a thought that has bothered me.
Could Willie D have also have had possession of the original map that was later made into the "stone tablets"?
After being tortured to a point of having to give something up why not give something up that was too hard to figure out?
Also it was not important to him at the time. It would keep the cowboys busy.
This does make sense and the symbolism on both maps are the same. And the time-line works.

Could Willie D be the cause of these maps finding their way into an unusual part of history?

The point I'm trying to make is not so much to compare the map I posted and the "stone tablets" to find a solution-
but to consider that they may have a similar origins.

A map that Willie D had could have traveled with the cowboys west and ended up with Travis T and company.

I'm not saying that the map that I posted and the "stone tablets" should be used together.
I'm more focused on the similarity in the symbology of the two maps.

 

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[markmar]

In this case the three crosses are tunnels in the main cave , each has a deadly trap but only one leads to the treasure . Usually the right way is the stairs or the middle . The heart in the red map is in the same region with the stone heart .

 

[markmar]

And for those who are interesting about the fox heart in the red map, I post a terrain topo with the region . The red dots are the mines in the stone Latin heart or the dots in the stone horse map . With the blue is the stone trail .

 

[somehiker]

"Somehiker, be cautious with the three crosses. As a map symbol, yes, it could represent a mark of possession I suppose, if such a notice would be necessary on a map (why would it?). If the symbol indicates something to find in the field, such as a carving, you'll find the three crosses in abundance in the Southwest. It represents Calvary to Hispanics and was carved everywhere they tended to gather in groups. This in itself is helpful as a trail marker, water source indicator and mine shrine locator. It could be a treasure map clue too, but you'll have to sort through a bunch to find the right one. Hey, good idea, actually."



While the three cross arrangement as shown in your example is similar and may indeed be a universal sign used by the Spanish or other Christians to mark important places and routes, the sign on this map, where it is used in two locations, forms an arc. This I believe has a more specific meaning, although both forms reference Golgatha and the Crucifixion. Likewise, the "omega" as incorporated into some of these maps, upright/inverted or on a slant, seems related to this concept.



A little comparison of basic layout....

Santa Fe, Cobollo, and Rio del Norte

 

[UncleMatt]

Somehiker,can you please IM me with a copy of the lower map,or direct me to a link where it is located? That is the one found under the window sill, correct?

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Some hiker, I liks that but for better reference rotate your map 90 * clockwise. North of the rio could mean north of a vado - ford - or almost anything, across the river, to the north ??

 

[UncleMatt]

never mind somehiker, I found it earlier in the thread.

 

[sdcfia]

While the three cross arrangement as shown in your example is similar and may indeed be a universal sign used by the Spanish or other Christians to mark important places and routes, the sign on this map, where it is used in two locations, forms an arc. This I believe has a more specific meaning, although both forms reference Golgatha and the Crucifixion. Likewise, the "omega" as incorporated into some of these maps, upright/inverted or on a slant, seems related to this concept.

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That's a good point, but why would the cautious, secretive Jesuits "sign" a treasure map unless as some sort of proof of ownership? The omega, according to mainstream treasure lore, also is used to denote "end", or " tunnel//cave", maybe others. Or so the stories go (I'm ambivalent). One thing that bothers me about identifying these Caballo/VP treasure caves as Jesuit caches of Mexican mines is, obviously, why weren't they recovered by the Jesuits? I realize current theory states that since Jesuit mining in the New World was forbidden prior to their expulsion, they had no legal right of ownership. However, what would have prevented them from removing the caches clandestinely at a later date? Knowing their history, the question is troublesome, and also relates directly to the integrity of the Noss map.

 

[UncleMatt]

Okay, I took a few minutes to look into these claims. Here is a GE map showing the section locations of active and non-active claims east of the Caballo Reservoir:

View attachment caballo claims.pdf

Sorry about the orientation! Inactive claims are in blue, active claims are in yellow. Not too much area around Bat Canyon Cave that hasn't already been filed on. If you see the claim in question for Jerry C, please point it out so I can research that specific claim.

Springfield, Sorry, I got confused by your two different quotes about grandmothers. np

If people want to know the exact location where Jerry C was hunting they need to get a copy of the claims from 1995.
He also had the claims surveyed professionally. Nice, when you can spend other people's money.

 

[UncleMatt]

note: these claims are up to 2011, if any changes were made to claims in the area after that they will not be shown on the above GE photo. Also of interest, only a couple of the inactive claims are placer, the vast majority are for lode gold...

 

[gollum]

That's a good point, but why would the cautious, secretive Jesuits "sign" a treasure map unless as some sort of proof of ownership? The omega, according to mainstream treasure lore, also is used to denote "end", or " tunnel//cave", maybe others. Or so the stories go (I'm ambivalent). One thing that bothers me about identifying these Caballo/VP treasure caves as Jesuit caches of Mexican mines is, obviously, why weren't they recovered by the Jesuits? I realize current theory states that since Jesuit mining in the New World was forbidden prior to their expulsion, they had no legal right of ownership. However, what would have prevented them from removing the caches clandestinely at a later date? Knowing their history, the question is troublesome, and also relates directly to the integrity of the Noss map.

I had the same question. If the Jesuits had hidden all this wealth, why haven't they recovered it in the 200 years since their worldwide restoration as an Order (1814)? The fact of the enormous cache found in Rio de Janeiro in 1891, is proof enough to me that SOMETHING happened to the knowledge of the locations of their wealth. In Spanish Territories, the Jesuits were rounded up, marched across Mexico, sailed South, then marched across the country again to Vera Cruz, then packed onto ships bound for Europe. MANY Jesuit Fathers dies en route. I have said that such a great secret (their wealth) was probably entrusted to very few Jesuits. There is a better than average chance that some or all of them died with the secrets of how to reclaim their fortunes. It is also probable that the Spanish likely knew the identities of the Fathers that would have that knowledge. They may have been kept where King Charles III could keep an eye on them. Who knows, but the cache at Rio says the Jesuits hid a lot of wealth, and for some reason, have not been able to reclaim it. That is why I laugh at people who claim to have broken the Jesuit Codes. HeII, if the Jesuits themselves can't figure it out .......... what makes you think you can?!? HAHAHA

If the Jesuits put anything on paper (which to me is highly doubtful), they would have never done so in a way that anybody but another Jesuit would understand.

Mike

 

[UncleMatt]

I asked Clay Diggins to do a search for Jerry C's mining claims. He found no active or inactive claims in New Mexico for Jerry whatsoever. So unless he used someone else's name to file, he never filed ANY claims in the Caballos, or anywhere else in New Mexico. Thoughts?

 

[Not Peralta]

UncleMatt. in 1995 jerryc. did in fact file claims in the caballo's , now he could have filed under onfp, or what ever name him and lethra cooked up, he not only filed in 1995 they spent a lot of money
having the claims professionally surveyed . np try auco.inc this is what I think he filed under, please put your response back on here.

 

[UncleMatt]

Will do NP! Sorry that first search didn't turn up anything.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

I have often been challenged to produce verifiable information on the early Jesuit mines, or Tayopa.. Verifiable such as in history books, or some one that wrote a book in the past,, none, umless you count F. Dobie as reliable.- .

Since we are dealing with the masters of secrecy, they carefully purged the Vatican files of any mention of mining, plots, or other ill doings, and there were many' but if an Indian told me to go to a certain area and that I would find this or that and I did, i would call that verifiable, regardless if it wasn't in a published manuscript.. Yes, I do have many verifiable stories most of which I have witheld.. an example---

Once i managed to cure an Indian woman and her husband of their problems..
she was a devout Cristian and asked me "what do I owe you Don Jose?", "nothing" I replied, "the fact that I was able to help you gave me great pleasure, but if you insis, a cup of coffee".

"No Don jose the Llord says that I must pay my debts,, so I will tell you of something that is of interest to you"

"My family lived for many generation s at xxxxxxxxx. One day the black robes that were mining nearby, came to my anti-pasados - past generations - and orderd them to construct a tunnel into the easttern side of the mt that lies to the east of our rancho. this my ancestors did, then the fathers brought down two vertially hung metal doors and oroceeded to store and periodicall remove many things.

Then one dy they came down very agitated and put many things in the tunnel,, there wwre maps, bars, documents and church materiel from the mission they had at their mining site, caved the mt down over the two doors, and told my ancestors that they had ro leave, but that thy would come back, and until they did, we were to guard it with our lives.

This my family did, but since it has been soo long, Don Jose I don't believe that they will.ever return. This, Don jose is my gift to you in repayment." I thanked her and suggested that she make some coffee.

No, I have never gone back to the site, , fortune has caused my multiple paths to never cross, but I know precisely where she told me were it is.

Incicientally, those of you that have read F. Dobies' book 'Apache gold and yaqui silve' may remember the two woman that were gatherin wood when a heavy rain hit and afterthey saw part of a metal door which was reburied by another heavy rain and they were unable to find it again, that was the metal door location that the Indian woman gave me althouth where Dobie found his story is curious,

There were many little stories that allowed me to home in on Tayopa, Reliable ? you judge.

 

[UncleMatt]

Sorry, NP, I went to LR2000 when I got home from work and ran search after search and couldn't find anything under AUCO or AUCO INC or ONFP. Of course, I could be doing something wrong, so I encourage others to double check me on that.I searched under active, closed, and pending claims, and came up with zilch. I am going to try looking through the claims I have in my GE kmz file.

Also, if other search terms occur to anyone, let me know and I will search under those too.

Later edit: I searched just under JERRY and came up with the results in the next post below

 

[UncleMatt]

Eureka? Maybe. Check this link HERE

Jerry M Cheatham Las Cruces, NM

REMARKS: OPERATOR APPEARS TO BE TREASURE HUNTING

And more under search term: CHEATHAM can be seen HERE

Who is Karen Cheatham?

NOTE: links are dead, LR2000 doesn't maintain the search result windows for an extended period of time.

 

[Not Peralta]

UncleMatt , can you post more info, np

 

[UncleMatt]

I'm shoveling dirt as fast as I can amigo

 

[Not Peralta]

UncleMatt, have some hot np