DOC NOSS-Victorio Peak OR The Caballo Mountains

[BIGSCOTT]

Roger Snow was posting on T-Net, and other websites long before this thread was started, he was probably banned at least 6 times
before np started this thread, I have allways enjoyed what he post's, and know it comes from experience, he cracks me up when he comes back under
an assumed name and pretends to be slightly iliterate or post with a drawl if you will, but it doesnt take long and he is going on one of his rant's, I can see right through
By the way where has Mike Gollum been? Did he hit big? Or did he get banned?

 

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[whiskeyrat]

Roger Snow was posting on T-Net, and other websites long before this thread was started, he was probably banned at least 6 times
before np started this thread, I have allways enjoyed what he post's, and know it comes from experience, he cracks me up when he comes back under
an assumed name and pretends to be slightly iliterate or post with a drawl if you will, but it doesnt take long and he is going on one of his rant's, I can see right through
By the way where has Mike Gollum been? Did he hit big? Or did he get banned?

Yeah, I too have been wondering what happened to gollum. Seems this thread is being thinned out for many reasons perhaps. I hope gollum hit it big and is living the dream.
I cant help but feeling that NP is gone on to the treasure world beyond. He has not responded here or in he and I's personal correspondence since december 2016.
Thanks NP for all your hints and maps and encouragement and attempted assistance. I regret that we never met personally.
so onward and upward.
wr

 

[whiskeyrat]

I agree with a lot of what you say, rat. The best story I ever heard about the Caballos allegedly occurred during the 1960s in the lower part of that canyon that had the old steel cable coming down from up above. That's where I'd look around. Take it for what it's worth - maybe nothing. I don't want anything except for you to be careful and stay safe.

Long story short: a guy found a concealed cave full of gold bars, skeletons and snakes near a sheave block bolted into a big rock. He killed two "watchers" who had followed him, put their bodies in the hole, removed some of the gold, covered the hole up, and then drove straight back to east Texas where he bought a house and stayed drunk and paranoid the rest of his life. His family thought he had robbed a bank or something because he always had loads of money. I got the story from the guy's nephew about 1982. If I hadn't been so caught up with my own obsession in the Santa Rita area for years, I'd have gone to have a look, but I never did. It seems to me that a lot of folks have looked in that canyon, but the nephew knew that the uncle's cave was still intact in 1982.

Thanks SDCFIA,
I have attempted more than once to find the sheave block in cable canyon. I have posted pics of the torn down supports, the cable and the rubble on this web site asking if anyone knew anything about this pics locations etc.
I have followed the cable from bottom to near the top where it goes up a vertical cliff. I have not been above the vertical cliff yet, but I will be this year.
I have not found a sheave block bolted into a rock anywhere from the entrance to the canyon to the vertical cliff where the cable disappears up and over.
However, there a couple sections down low where more recent rock slides have buried the cable. so cant say for sure that the sheave block is not down low and buried. However, the down low locations do not seem to be where a sheave block would need to be to guide the "zip line" cable.
When I get up and over the vertical cliff, I will follow the cable to its end and see if I find any sheave blocks bolted into a rock.

wr

 

[nmth]

Thanks SDCFIA,
<snip>
I have followed the cable from bottom to near the top where it goes up a vertical cliff. I have not been above the vertical cliff yet, but I will be this year.
I have not found a sheave block bolted into a rock anywhere from the entrance to the canyon to the vertical cliff where the cable disappears up and over.
<snip>
wr

WR, I posted directions previously for how to get above the vertical face from down below.

You can also come in from the top. That route is best done with an ATV unless you like off-camber cliff driving in a taller vehicle.

Or, take the very longest road up top, but that's a lot farther to walk. Oooh, "too far to walk" - Oh, wrong thread. But if you have found the House of Brown, let me know.

Good luck.

 

[mdog]

Springy,

So I guess you and Shortstack are the "Ancient Ones" guys here? Or do you like the Phoenician Connection? I am game for the Phoenicians getting copper from Michigan. I am also game for Phoenicians in and around Mayas in the Yucatan. Two stories:

1. When they were building the extension for the airport in Yucatan, the construction company unearthed clay discs with Phoenician Writing on them. Historians called them fake, and they disappeared from history (I believe this was in the late 1960s early 1970's).
2. At a certain mountain in Northern Az, a cave was found (I want to say about 1986). Many things in the cave including artifacts that looked distinctly Mayan/Aztec, raw South American Emeralds, and gold coins. The finder showed them to Bob Marx in Florida who identified them as Phoenician Gold Staters from a time before Christ.

Best - Mike

Here's one of Mike's old posts from page 5. It's a good one.

 

[mdog]

3 years ago, NP started this thread with I think good intentions. He/she released some prior unseen "maps" and made no claims other than challenge us on tnet to contribute, figure it out, have some fun, see if this is real. Fallow tgw clues into the Cabalo Mountains and maybe together solve some of these newly disclosed maps.

Then, Roger Snow got involved and was willing to disclose much information from his life time of being involved in the mountains of New Mexico (mostly the Organ mountains).
Others became involved and for a couple of years, we all tried to work together to solve some of these mysteries.

In the recent past, it seems there has been a lot of disillusionment from not getting instant gratification, not finding hordes of gold in easily accessible places and not verifying mysterious old maps as true.

When I became involved in this, I decided it might 10 years to figure this out and set out accordingly.
I am still gaining knowledge each and every day. Have met some incredibly experienced and knowledgable people about south west new mexico and the Caballo mountains.
everyone I meet seems willing to try and contribute to solving the mysteries.
We are having a great time and seeing some unbelievable canyons, caves and artifacts.

Unfortunately NP seems to have disappeared (no response on this site or in private), Roger has been banned (although he still communicates privately, is willing to help, and does read this thread).

My recent learning is taking me more away from the haphazard some lucky miner found tons of gold and hid it in a cave, toward the very organized raping of america by well informed forces for various reasons and highly controlled cashes of gold for future endeavors.
I think Willy, Buster, Doc, Renyolds, Drolte, were most likely all minions to some extent of this organized effort to get all the worlds gold. I dont claim to know what part they played (yet) but seems they were all minions in the grand effort.

Seems the Spanish were very organized, cataloged, dated and recorded every bar ever cast, knew exactly who mined it, who owned it, where it was at all times. Each bar was numbered, assayed and registered.
Prior to the Spanish, possibly the Aztecs etc were doing the same for King Soloman.

Yes I think there are caches still out there, yes I think there are piles of bars that the Apaches raided and buried in caves, etc. I think the stories of bars found can be true, but the players might not have been innocent "deer hunters".
I think there are dead mules with gold bars laying next to there bones.
Since 1933, anyone finding this stuff can not come forward to verify anything or his find will be confiscated. So no, there is no verification of anything.

So, im just rambling on here, but I think our time would be better served trying to solve these mysteries together as we were 3 years ago.
I have another 7 years in my 10 year commitment. Pressing onward.

My offer still stands, if someone has a lead, I will follow it up. If it is correct we will both profit.
I have walked untold miles and climbed untold vertical feet the last 3 years and plan on even more in the next 3.
If nothing ever comes of it, the adventure is worth the effort.

In the end, maybe I will publish a book "100 places where its not"
wr

I think you are right about the organized efforts. Steve Clark goes into great detail about these activities in New Mexico Confidential. Mapping and landmarks and the treasure legends themselves, are very important, as Steve has explained in his book.

 

[sdcfia]

Thanks SDCFIA,
I have attempted more than once to find the sheave block in cable canyon. I have posted pics of the torn down supports, the cable and the rubble on this web site asking if anyone knew anything about this pics locations etc.
I have followed the cable from bottom to near the top where it goes up a vertical cliff. I have not been above the vertical cliff yet, but I will be this year.
I have not found a sheave block bolted into a rock anywhere from the entrance to the canyon to the vertical cliff where the cable disappears up and over.
However, there a couple sections down low where more recent rock slides have buried the cable. so cant say for sure that the sheave block is not down low and buried. However, the down low locations do not seem to be where a sheave block would need to be to guide the "zip line" cable.
When I get up and over the vertical cliff, I will follow the cable to its end and see if I find any sheave blocks bolted into a rock.

wr

I contacted the nephew a year or so ago, just to satisfy my curiosity about some things. First of all, it is indisputable that the nephew took the photos in the canyon with the cable in it, and that he was hassled to leave by "cowboys" - I know this because my long-time buddy was with him that day. The nephew at the time was a corporate professional and went on to enjoy a long and successful career.

However, I was always red-flagged about the nephew for one reason - his surname, which I won't repeat, but is recognizable by all. Maybe a coincidence, but then, I don't believe in coincidences. The nephew now - at least when I contacted him - pretty much laughs off the events and his uncle (who is long-deceased) and won't talk about any of it. This is a 180 change from 1982. I suppose that he, now being a fat cat, doesn't want to associate himself with any controversy, which is understandable. On the other hand, the whole event fits the profile of numerous "disclosures" that occurred ca 1980 (three that I know of in SW New Mexico), drawing attention to certain locations associated with "treasure caches." In any event, the cable canyon was, and has been, a focal point - for whatever reason.

 

[nmth]

Originally Posted by whiskeyrat

I have read that most or all of the markings that did exist in the Caballos have been detroyed.
Does anyone know of any existing petroglyphs in the Caballos
wr

Yes.

OK, I was hoping someone would call me out - but no luck so far so I guess that I will get out of playful mode and post a pic.

Note that I think this to be modern based on weathering, but "modern" may be the 1850's.

There are truly modern scratch-o hoax glyphs nearby. New stuff is almost always lazy. Witness the tiny piles of hypocritical eco-droppings you find everywhere now versus the nice big stone monuments made by those who cleared the West of Grizzlies and hostiles long ago so we can now drive in our AC-ed SUV's to the mall and REI and complain about everything. (did you know Grizzlies were origianlly plains critters? That's why they are adapted to run so durn fast; humans pushed them to high country, and GOOD RIDDANCE. Why are Gizzlies so different to people than Ebola? A threat is a threat. Easy to ohh-ahh Silvertips when they are not in *your* backyard.)



This is among the least interesting glyphs still left, though it is deeply chiseled.

I have seen things destroyed or stolen even in my short lifetime, unfortunately. (Grrrrr)

The most interesting sign things up in there are not glyphs. Rather, LARGE monuments, v-notches, eye-catcher (often ridgeline) stuff, and smaller mine-related monuments (but from pre-1800's style), and even the many natural arches are more intriguing to me. Someone who knows the math they used at Nylars and Osterlars, etc. could have a fun project on their hands up there, valid hyposthesis or not.

I suspect this glyph is just a roadside shrine for protection.

Anyone else have pics to share? I found a pic of the "Sundial" rock (From Noah's Arc?) on the internets, but as it is not mine I should not post it.

 

[sdcfia]

OK, I was hoping someone would call me out - but no luck so far so I guess that I will get out of playful mode and post a pic.

Note that I think this to be modern based on weathering, but "modern" may be the 1850's.

There are truly modern scratch-o hoax glyphs nearby. New stuff is almost always lazy. Witness the tiny piles of hypocritical eco-droppings you find everywhere now versus the nice big stone monuments made by those who cleared the West of Grizzlies and hostiles long ago so we can now drive in our AC-ed SUV's to the mall and REI and complain about everything. (did you know Grizzlies were origianlly plains critters? That's why they are adapted to run so durn fast; humans pushed them to high country, and GOOD RIDDANCE. Why are Gizzlies so different to people than Ebola? A threat is a threat. Easy to ohh-ahh Silvertips when they are not in *your* backyard.)

View attachment 1452193

This is among the least interesting glyphs still left, though it is deeply chiseled.

I have seen things destroyed or stolen even in my short lifetime, unfortunately. (Grrrrr)

The most interesting sign things up in there are not glyphs. Rather, LARGE monuments, v-notches, eye-catcher (often ridgeline) stuff, and smaller mine-related monuments (but from pre-1800's style), and even the many natural arches are more intriguing to me. Someone who knows the math they used at Nylars and Osterlars, etc. could have a fun project on their hands up there, valid hyposthesis or not.

I suspect this glyph is just a roadside shrine for protection.

Anyone else have pics to share? I found a pic of the "Sundial" rock (From Noah's Arc?) on the internets, but as it is not mine I should not post it.

A lot of folks would identify that carving as either a "JJ" mark (often mirrored J's), or an "anchor" indication. If so, you may have yourself a dandy. If not, maybe you've got a "las cruces" - also worth pondering if you put any faith in "treasure maps." Need more? With a squinted eye, one might also pin that thing as a "tanit." A possible three-bagger - something for everyone - KGC, Spanish, Phoenician. Way to go, th.

 

[UncleMatt]

I don't recall where at the moment, but I believe someone posted photos of the cable sheave block here on T-net at some point in the past. I will look through my photos and see if I bothered to save it. It also might be shown in the book Tales of the Caballos. Sorry, I don't recall anything more specific.

 

[UncleMatt]

Here is a photo that might be of the sheave block, but not certain this is it

 

[Ryano]

Nmth said Nylars, Osterlars which are Danish villages. What do you mean exactly ?

 

[Real of Tayopa]

Sdc, that is found in NP's lil map on the west side of the Caballo.

]

 

[whiskeyrat]

Here is a photo that might be of the sheave block, but not certain this is it View attachment 1452200

No thats just a cable anchor. That one is up on the iron band between cable canyon and Indian canyon. I think it was used to anchor a zip line down from the old mine that is up there.
There is an old flat head motor close to it that may have powered the hoist.

A sheave block will be a frame work with a pulley mounted inside. The cable would be wrapped around the pulley to give a multiplying effect.

Something like this:



wr

 

[whiskeyrat]

OK, I was hoping someone would call me out - but no luck so far so I guess that I will get out of playful mode and post a pic.

Note that I think this to be modern based on weathering, but "modern" may be the 1850's.

There are truly modern scratch-o hoax glyphs nearby. New stuff is almost always lazy. Witness the tiny piles of hypocritical eco-droppings you find everywhere now versus the nice big stone monuments made by those who cleared the West of Grizzlies and hostiles long ago so we can now drive in our AC-ed SUV's to the mall and REI and complain about everything. (did you know Grizzlies were origianlly plains critters? That's why they are adapted to run so durn fast; humans pushed them to high country, and GOOD RIDDANCE. Why are Gizzlies so different to people than Ebola? A threat is a threat. Easy to ohh-ahh Silvertips when they are not in *your* backyard.)

View attachment 1452193

This is among the least interesting glyphs still left, though it is deeply chiseled.

I have seen things destroyed or stolen even in my short lifetime, unfortunately. (Grrrrr)

The most interesting sign things up in there are not glyphs. Rather, LARGE monuments, v-notches, eye-catcher (often ridgeline) stuff, and smaller mine-related monuments (but from pre-1800's style), and even the many natural arches are more intriguing to me. Someone who knows the math they used at Nylars and Osterlars, etc. could have a fun project on their hands up there, valid hyposthesis or not.

I suspect this glyph is just a roadside shrine for protection.

Anyone else have pics to share? I found a pic of the "Sundial" rock (From Noah's Arc?) on the internets, but as it is not mine I should not post it.

Ok I will call you out. I was going to earlier when you said "yes" but thought if he wanted to share he would.
So anyway, care to share where the location of this glyph is? At least just the canyon?
You can pm me if you want, i assure you I wont destroy or in any way degrade any symbols.
thanks
wr

 

[whiskeyrat]

I contacted the nephew a year or so ago, just to satisfy my curiosity about some things. First of all, it is indisputable that the nephew took the photos in the canyon with the cable in it, and that he was hassled to leave by "cowboys" - I know this because my long-time buddy was with him that day. The nephew at the time was a corporate professional and went on to enjoy a long and successful career.

However, I was always red-flagged about the nephew for one reason - his surname, which I won't repeat, but is recognizable by all. Maybe a coincidence, but then, I don't believe in coincidences. The nephew now - at least when I contacted him - pretty much laughs off the events and his uncle (who is long-deceased) and won't talk about any of it. This is a 180 change from 1982. I suppose that he, now being a fat cat, doesn't want to associate himself with any controversy, which is understandable. On the other hand, the whole event fits the profile of numerous "disclosures" that occurred ca 1980 (three that I know of in SW New Mexico), drawing attention to certain locations associated with "treasure caches." In any event, the cable canyon was, and has been, a focal point - for whatever reason.

Very interesting. Yes, several "treasure disclosures" happened in the 30's, then again several in the 80's. All kinda pointing to the same Burbank, Granite Peak, Cable canyon, area.

If you could get your nephew to talk, cable canyon is not that big. As you enter the canyon, the road is washed out, then only about 300 yards past that right along the main path (cant miss it) is a large beautiful cedar tree (juniper) that is the only tree around. Really stands out. Would be a good landmark to ask him about. Above the cedar? Below the cedar? That tree was most likely there in the 80s.

Then another 1/3 mile following the cable is the next unforgettable landmark, the vertical cliff that the cable goes up. If he had to go around that cliff to get to the picture spot he would definitely remember that.

So, maybe you could just ask him, was it near the single juniper tree, which direction from this tree? was it above the vertical cliff that the cable ascends?

This could narrow down the search drastically.

good luck
wr

 

[somehiker]

Huitzilopochtli was the Aztec god who led the "people" on their journey from "Aztlan" to Cuauhtinchan and eventually to the island in Lake Texcoco, where they built their capital city Tenochtitlan.......Huitzilopochtli - Ancient History Encyclopedia
The structure shown beside the snake-shaped spear-thrower (atl-atl), is a depiction used on some codices to represent an Aztec temple or other official building.
Whoever made the map clearly had Aztec mythology and history in mind, and if it was Noss, he may have tried to combine the "Tayopa" tale with his own "Victorio Peak" and other treasure tales, including that of the "Peralta" stone maps.

Regards:SH.

 

[sdcfia]

... So, maybe you could just ask him ...

I tried that last year for a friend and was brushed off. I'm done with it, rat - just passing along the story. It sounds as if someone may have removed the landmark. Good luck to you.

 

[nmth]

Sdc, that is found in NP's lil map on the west side of the Caballo.

(RdT, what are you referring to?)

Here's a glyph that looks just dandy per the NP map:



So what?

This sort of junk is all over the place if you are into wasting enough of your time stomping around. (Though, it helps if you have "The Eye".)

...or, I could have made it in my backyard today.

...or, it could be one of a set of Native glyphs that the map-makers of the NP map as well as the supposed Noss map (Gold House book jacket map) co-opted for their use as good pre-existing landmarks.

...or, it could be part of a scam. The sun-pointer symbol looks newer than some of the others at the site with mucho mas patina. "Find" map, lead investors to "ancient signs", get grubstaked and live off of the dream for months, years even.

Another thing: The problem with shape-matching and OOP cultural symbols, is that there are only so many shapes to go around. Just like binary bits in a data stream - there's a finite and quantifiable amount of information in any symbol set. So when one out of a 1,000 or 10,000 symbols match between far-flung cultures: so what? OMGolly, two cultures both used a triangle-y thing! Well, yeah, they iterated through a bunch of other shapes and that's all that was left to use for their new word/concept...

This is a fun game, but I'd better chill out for a while. Maybe I'm reaching my "wr" time investment limit - I'm well over my 10 years, in general (not just the Cabs).

I seriously hope that NP is just bored with us for the time being.

 

[whiskeyrat]

(RdT, what are you referring to?)

Here's a glyph that looks just dandy per the NP map:

View attachment 1452556

So what?

This sort of junk is all over the place if you are into wasting enough of your time stomping around. (Though, it helps if you have "The Eye".)

...or, I could have made it in my backyard today.

...or, it could be one of a set of Native glyphs that the map-makers of the NP map as well as the supposed Noss map (Gold House book jacket map) co-opted for their use as good pre-existing landmarks.

...or, it could be part of a scam. The sun-pointer symbol looks newer than some of the others at the site with mucho mas patina. "Find" map, lead investors to "ancient signs", get grubstaked and live off of the dream for months, years even.

Another thing: The problem with shape-matching and OOP cultural symbols, is that there are only so many shapes to go around. Just like binary bits in a data stream - there's a finite and quantifiable amount of information in any symbol set. So when one out of a 1,000 or 10,000 symbols match between far-flung cultures: so what? OMGolly, two cultures both used a triangle-y thing! Well, yeah, they iterated through a bunch of other shapes and that's all that was left to use for their new word/concept...

This is a fun game, but I'd better chill out for a while. Maybe I'm reaching my "wr" time investment limit - I'm well over my 10 years, in general (not just the Cabs).

I seriously hope that NP is just bored with us for the time being.

Nice post. brought a smile to me.
Im not limiting my hunt to 10 years, its just that im 64 years old now, and I figure if i got 10 years of climbing left that will be about it. Lucky to last 10 more.
So its more of an expected (dreaded) physical limit than a set time frame.

I too hope that NP will someday re appear. Come on NP, we all wish you well and miss your inputs.

wr