Diversions,Dead Ends and Wild Cards

[Blindbowman]

I probably would,Joe.
With three universities and several college campuses within 20 minutes,as well as a large public library up the road a bit,I have pretty fair access to most publications,research materials and periodicals.I wish I had more time to spend going through all that they have listed in their catalogues.

Regards:SH.

Wayne,

I'm sure that works fine for you, as well as many others. I prefer to have my research material even closer. I know I miss out on a lot of information, but I wouldn't be able to remember it all anyway. Man's got to know his limitations.
Constant trips to Phoenix are out of the question, so I do the best I can here at home.

Take care,

Joe

joe you sound home bound , sorry i was jokeing about you being old .. if you want me to i can drop you off some ore next time i am passing threw ,,,,.... can you still get up and answer the door ,,,,no i got address .. just never thaught i would want it lol ....but you never real question who is going to buy you that next drink .. if i still drink...


sorry i cant stop your so much fun when your pist ..

dont worry joe .. one thing everyone that knows me knows for a fact .. if i am pist you will know it ...and it wont be funny ..


on a good note .. how you doing old timer .. bones still moveing ...or are you waiting for someone to find that LDM

.. joe someone did !

now for some real brain work .. i discoverd that the dick holmes account is in fact the Waltz will and testement ... dick holmes made little changes to the letter dick found under the bed in the box with the ore ... i can prove this out right a fact .. now you said you dont beleive the dick holmes account ,.. joe your wrong the the problem is not with the account it self .. the problem is not where it came from .. the problem is dick holmes or brownie holmes did not write this account . Waltz did .. so far i have been going back peice by peice and trying to define why the legend was unsolable .. .. this is a big peice of why .. dick holmes .. got this letter from waltz's box under the bed .. let me explain how i know this and what the events were that triggerd the out come .. dick holmes stated this was account of what happend bed side the day waltz died .. thats total BS .. dick holmes lied ,, that is not the case and this letter is in fact waltz's last will and testement as close as we will ever get the chance to see the real letter .. let me explain in detail so you under stand what took place ..
dick finds the letter in the box under the bed ,, did waltz ever say anything to dick holmes .. most likely not and if he did i cant repete those words here ..

dick holmes took the gold and the letter waltz wrote ., you see waltz coded his dirrections thats why no one can make any sence of them .. i did not realize this tell yesterday when i was multi reading the account .. only me and waltz would have know this account is coded because we both know where the real mine is .. dick holmes could nbot find the mine with these dirrection as they are ,, Imposable ...

dick then gave the account to Brownie and brownie tryed to use them . to find the mine as well .. i beleive brownie knew what the account really was .. and did not want to go to his grave knowing his father had stold Waltz will and it may be the only real way to find the mine again .. i beleive brownie to have been nothinmg like his old man ..


i believ this is why brownie stated he did not write the account as it is .. because he knew the secert about what his father dick holmes had done and this was Waltz's will ..

in the will and confession . there are a few words added from dick holmes .. mainly just his name . in a few places and the statement "dick dick I must tell you " this is total bs joe .. it was added to the letter by dick holmes to try to make the letter read as if Waltz had gave it to dick holmes why he was alive .. if dick holmes did this to make it look like waltz was alive .. then logic tells us waltz was already dead or dick holmes played some part in waltz death ..

now i dont want to work on that part of this yet and i dont feel it is an importain part at this point ..

if dick holmes did change this letter then waltz was most likely already dead .. the only place dick could have gotten this letter is from waltz's box under the bed .. waltz most likely would not have made any copies ..then again .. maybe they is a copy at the mine hidden some where ..

but dick holmes also added the ending of the letter .. the" then jacob waltz was dead " that is not part of the waltz will ..

i have no dout what so ever dick holmes added that part to the letter ,, the rest of the account uis word for word from waltz jhim self as far as i can tell at this point but i have to go back threw it again a few timews to make sure .. . i most likely beleive the letter had a heading and the jacob waltz name signed at the end .. this is a common format of wills in the time span by german imagernates...waltz had live here long enough to under stand what a will is and what it dose .. i dont beleive there were other pages to this will .. did brownie have the real will .. i dont know at this point . if he did clay worst would most likely have it now .. and clay is more then able to talk with me if he wants to know more about the will and what it means ..

so far no one else has any idea where the real mine is .. i have made it my my goal to keep the mine hidden till its time to make it public .. one fact is clear waltz did in fact know where the real mine was ... his coded dirrections clearly prove this .. the reason i knew the dirrections were coded is becuase i know the real location of the mine and could under stand how waltz coded his dirrections ... me and him are the only people to under stand the dirrections correctly because of that wisdom known .. now .. did dick destroe the will or did he hide or pass it on .. i dont know .. i know brownie made the statement about not writeing this account because he knew what the will really was ..

thats why dick holmes left the silver dollar on the rocks .. to try to mark where the area was .. but he could not find the mine it self ..

you may be old joe but your not a foll .. this is waltz's will

...dont waste what time you have trying to use it to find the mine its not posable to find the mine that way ...
if dick holmes had not change the wording .. around to cover his tracks .. it would have still been very hard to find the mine with those uncoded dirrections .. so where are we at now .. the only other person that could know the account is waltz's will would be clay worst .. and he never said a word did he about it ...


if waltz left this will .. there is a real good chance waltz mark the mine with his name or something to prove it is the real LDM

now do you want to spend your whole life and never know where the real mine is .. or do you want to take the cloves off and , step up and see if i am right .. see if the mine i have found is the real LDM .. see if waltz left anything there to prove it is the real LDM .. i can walk and climb right to the mine .. i dont have to guess or hunt for it ... and it is the same mine waltz's coded dirrections locate .. so are you going to play the ignore game all your life or are you willing to learn along the way and under stan d some one else did find it ,,.... me and waltz ... you say when we can get together a group and go to the mine with cameras and people to record the discovery and lets find out if waltz left any evidence there at the mine it self .. i beleive he did ...

but i am not going to risk my life or others to claim the mine legally with out some way to do it safely ...for everyone that goes with me to see if this is the real LDM .. i already know it is .. but is there any evidence to prove it there at the mine ...this could efect the history of the state of AZ and the legend ..

i come here day by day and read and research and some times just to let you know i am still here ..


i want this to be over and end it .. i got people that are sick and need me here .. its time to close the book on this legend and if you want to open a new book on the legend thats up to all you of you .. i made this reply to joe .. for a reason .. i dont want to end up like him ...
and he knows what i mean ..


great guys finish last .. lets win the game joe .. its about time we win one ... i have a sick friend and its hard for me to get away right now .. but when i can .. lets get together and find out if waltz left his mark at the mine ,.. knowing waltz they way i do .. i know he did ...

i found waltz's will and his mine .. .. its time he rest in peace and the legend becomes even greater then any of us would ever dream of ...

 

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[Springfield]

yada yada yada

'Bout time, ain't it?

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

BB, yer still wet behind yer grimy ears, you would be quartermaster striker. You posted to Joe --> your old i give you that ...lol ,

First, the proper English / Yank word is 'mature', PLEASE !! Second, I have almost 38 years on you, my future steak provider. snifff. SO WATCHIT !!!

Third , keep this up and I won't take you to see the 'True Tayopa' !!!

Remember the Indians up there consider me a reincarnated Jesuit of Tayopa - but which one?. snicker

Incidentally I have found that much of distant history is very flawed. Much was based upon the old women of the tribes who were the verbal keepers of the tribes history of achievements, travels, battles, and especially who begat who and from whom. This was from necessity, since most did not have a complex language at best.

Most of the early historians had only these old, verbal history keepers to work with, and as can be seen by BB's example, sometimes their memories were not too sharp, nor above remembering 'flavored' happenings

(Quarter master striker hehehehheh.) Join me in a true cuppa of real Navy coffee BB?



Don Jose de La Mancha .

 

[Blindbowman]

true navy is the art if chipping paint ...lol

your talking ealry tribiral .. the tribes i am talking about used cave drawings ,, they did not use spoken words .. and if they did we cant post them here ...lol


a whiteman goes to a mohawk to ask him where their tribe gets their gold .?. ....thats the end of the joke ,and the whitemen ....lol

remember if you found tayopa you also found the taxs that went with it ...

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Sigh BB, you posted-->remember if you found tayopa you also found the taxs that went with it ...
**********
Don't remind me, I just paid them today - not a dry towell in the house now. 1000 hect @ 9 Us , twice a year.

psst, I am a tiny bit Mohican - it was a long, cold winter, and they say that she was very cute, sigh. Do you think?

Can you spare a down and out of luck guy a cuppa ?-->

Speaking of which, any rumors on BETH, DOGGIES, & roy ?

Don Jose de La Mancha (el destitute, would be miner.)

 

[cactusjumper]

Jim,

"It was in the Superstitions that Major Brown's forces met and combined with the troops of Captain James Burns. Captain Burns had just returned from a skirmish in the Four Peaks area and had captured two prisoners, one a young Apache boy whom they renamed Mike Burns. Lieutenant John G. Bourke was also on this Apache chase and documented the ensuing fight which came to be known as the Battle of Skull Cave. Skull Cave is located high above what is now Canyon Lake at the north end of the Superstitions. This particular encounter had disastrous results for the Apaches."

As you know, I am a great fan of Apache history. In that vein, can you tell me who the other person was that the troops captured along with Hoomothya? Also, Why did the Skull Cave battle have a "disastrous results for the Apache."? Since it was Kwevkepaya Yavapai who were in the cave, how were the Apache even affected.

I look forward to your reply, as I know you are one smart cookie when it comes to all things related to the Superstition Mountains.

Joe Ribaudo

 

[silent hunter]

Joe The discusion is over. You are a day late with your reply. No one wants to get into Apache history. Go back and read your own post. You said there was no apache in the supe's and we know you are wrong about that. Now you are trying to change my discusion to suit some history magazine you just put down. If you want to debate Apache Indians maybe you should set down with my Dad and uncles and tell them what you told me about the apache.>HAHAHA.

bEST wISHES
Kurt Painter

 

[cactusjumper]

Mr. Nalzheehi,

"You said there was no apache in the supe's and we know you are wrong about that."

I suppose you could be right. Seems to me there have been quite a few posts concerning the Apache in the Superstitions, so there must be a little interest in the subject.

Perhaps you can copy and paste the post where I write that there were NO Apache in the Superstitions.

Does this mean I was mistaken about Skull Cave? Perhaps you, your dad, or your uncles would like to answer my questions to Jim. If you are Apache, can we assume you know your own people's history?

Joe Ribaudo

 

[Jim Hatt]

Jim,


As you know, I am a great fan of Apache history. In that vein, can you tell me who the other person was that the troops captured along with Hoomothya? Also, Why did the Skull Cave battle have a "disastrous results for the Apache."? Since it was Kwevkepaya Yavapai who were in the cave, how were the Apache even affected.

I look forward to your reply, as I know you are one smart cookie when it comes to all things related to the Superstition Mountains.

Joe Ribaudo

Joe,

If you will look back... I supplied the sources and EVERYTHING I quoted came from the works of Tom Kollenborn.

I am not accountable for what other authors write. (Even when I quote them) If you wish to dispute what is in Tom's books, I suggest you dispute it with him.

Best,

Jim

 

[cactusjumper]

Jim,

Tom will be the first to tell you that he is not always correct. He will also tell you that he and I do not always agree, but we disagree with respect. That has worked very well for our friendship. There has never been a time when we disagree, and felt it necessary to phone the other and curse them out, or call them names.

For instance, when I told him my theory about his being involved in creating the Stone Maps, he laughed and said he was flatterd. On the other hand, we both agree they are modern-day creations.

No doubt you have the same kind of relationship with the Kollenborn's, knowing them as long as you have.

Are you saying I am wrong about the Skull Cave Battle?

Thanks for your reply,

Joe Ribaudo

 

[silent hunter]

Cactus Jumper HAHAHA Why would you call me by that name? Do you think I seek power? It's NALZHEEHÍ LANOHWILE. I have a saying and it goes like this "Silence is a privalage" I know what you are trying to get me to say or do and it will never happen!

Best Wishes
Kurt Painter

 

[Jim Hatt]

Joe,

I am not saying you are either right or wrong about skull cave. I just posted what Tom Kollenborn wrote about Apaches in the Superstition Mountains. If any of it conflicts with your opinions, that would be an issue to be resolved between you and Tom.

There has never been a time when we disagree, and felt it necessary to phone the other and curse them out, or call them names.

As I told you the last time you brought it up... There has never been a time when I have resorted to such childish behavior my self either, and if I ever did get upset with anyone enough to "curse them out"... I would be man enough to do it to their face, and not over the phone.

In case you missed it... Tom had a lot to say about the Apache presence in the Superstition Mountains. Here it all is again.

The following quotes concerning the Apache presense in the Superstitions come from Tom Kollenborn's book: "CHRONOLOGICAL HISTORY OF THE SUPERSTITION WILDERNESS".


1450 A.D.
The predatory Apache made their appearance in the region about 1450 A.D.


1864
May 11, 1864, the Rancheria Campaign against the hostile Apaches in the Sierra Supersticiones and Sierra Pinals. The first raids were lead by Brevet Lt. John D. Walkers and his 1st Arizona Volunteers. The Volunteers were made up of farmers and Pima Indians.

1867
May 11, 1867, elements of the U.S. 23rd Infantry encountered hostile Yavapai-Apaches in a Rancheria near Picacho (Weaver's Needle). Several hostile Indians were killed by a surprise attack.



1872
Major John Brown, with elements of the 5th and 10th U.S. Cavalry led campaigns against Apaches in the Superstition Mountain area near Reavis Ranch.


1784
Captain Don Pedro de Allande led several campaigns against the Apaches in the Gila country. Allande planned a mass invasion of the Apacheria.

The 5th United States Cavalry conducted their Pinal Mountain Campaign against the Apaches from March 8 –15, 1874. This campaign included several skirmishes near the Reavis Ranch in the Superstition Wilderness Area.

1879
June 30, 1879, King S. Woolsey died at 3:00 a.m. at the Lyle Ranch, southeast of Phoenix, Arizona Territory. Woolsey had pursued Apaches in the Superstition Mountains.

December 5, 1879, a Mexican reported to the Phoenix Weekly Herald that he and his partner were attack by Indians while prospecting in the Superstition Mountains. The Apaches killed one of the partners.

1893
June 15, 1893, Apache Kid reported seen near the Bark-Criswell Ranch.

1897
September 16, 1897, Apaches from San Carlos scatter cattle near Superstition Mountain.



And Finally... 1907
September 2, 1907, John D. Walker's daughter, Juana Walker, is suing for the Vekol Mine. Walker lead the 1st Arizona Volunteers against the hostile Apache in the Superstition Mountains between 1864-68.


Some will continue to argue that the Apaches were not in the Superstitions, but I don't think they would have been able to convince Captain Don Pedro de Allande, King S. Woolsey, Dr. Walker and the 1st Arizona Volunteers, or the U.S. 23rd Infantry.




And from Tom Kollenborn's book - "A RIDE THROUGH TIME" comes the following quotes concerning the Apache presence in the Superstition Mountains:

Arizona is a fascinating state with diversity in its culture, land, and people. Unique to Arizona is the Superstition Wilderness Area, a land of some 124,120 acres of adventure, tantalizing legends and unbelievable tales. First there were the Salado, then the hostile Apache, followed by Elisha M. Reavis "Hermit of Superstition Mountain," and then came Jacob Waltz of Lost Dutchman Mine fame.



Following the departure of the Salado from the Superstitions, the Apaches inherited the high, mountain fortresses to which they retreated from their raids in the low deserts. The Superstitions provide many high bluffs which can be easily defended and many canyons which make pursuit of a fleeing enemy impossible. This "hit-and-run" tactic proved very successful for the Apaches until the 1800s when cavalry units from the U.S. Army, led by Apache scouts, began to seriously threaten the Indians' mountain stronghold. The Apache era in the Superstitions provides a host of intriguing chronicles which have been the basis for factual history and tall tale alike.


After the American Civil War, soldiers from Fort McDowell, located in the Salt River Valley, chased marauding Apaches into and through the Superstition wilderness. One of these blue-coated soldiers was Major William Brown who, with two companies of 5th Cavalry, combed the Mescal, Pinal, Superstition, Sierra Ancha and Mazatzal ranges in December of 1872.

It was in the Superstitions that Major Brown's forces met and combined with the troops of Captain James Burns. Captain Burns had just returned from a skirmish in the Four Peaks area and had captured two prisoners, one a young Apache boy whom they renamed Mike Burns. Lieutenant John G. Bourke was also on this Apache chase and documented the ensuing fight which came to be known as the Battle of Skull Cave. Skull Cave is located high above what is now Canyon Lake at the north end of the Superstitions. This particular encounter had disastrous results for the Apaches.


Weapons and men for these outposts did not begin to flow immediately, however, but by 1869 men and equipment began to arrive. The old sergeant claimed that a shipment of Colt .44 Dragoon pistols were shipped to Tucson (Fort Lowell) for distribution among the military outposts. He had documents (photostatic copies) which revealed a consignment of Whitneyville-Walker Colt .44 Dragoons being shipped from Fort Lowell via Camp Pinal to Fort McDowell in April of 1871 or 1872. He further claimed these pistols were freighted by pack animals from Camp Pinal through the Superstitions to Fort McDowell. His documents also revealed that this pack train included a packer, a junior grade officer, a sergeant and six enlisted men. There were two mules carrying feed for the Army mounts, two mules packing camp gear and one mule carrying twenty-four Dragoon pistols. Somewhere between Camp Pinal and the Salt River, this pack train was ambushed by hostile Apaches.


One of the legends most often associated with the Apaches in the Superstitions is the story of Dr. Abram Thorne's gold. According to the legend, Dr. Thorne was a medical doctor assigned to Fort McDowell. He saved a young Indian boy who, as it turned out, was the son of an Apache chief. To reward Dr. Thorne for this act of kindness, the Apaches took him on a horseback trip, but, following the instincts of the curious, he peeked from time to time. Thorne later related that they had crossed two rivers, the Verde and the Salt, and wound their way into the mountains until they reached a point at which the peeking Thorne saw a pointed peak. The Apaches then filled his saddlebags with gold and returned him to Fort McDowell. In actuality, military records of Fort McDowell do not list a Dr. Thorne as ever having been assigned to that post or even in the Army. The Thorne story, however, has become well known through the years and has been recounted in many books written on the Superstitions.


All that now remains of the early Indian groups who once inhabited the Superstitions are the dwellings, petroglyphs and burial grounds which provide the evidence for anthropologists and archeologists to piece together the history of these people. Because of their marauding ways, all the Apaches left behind in the Superstitions are stories of bloody encounters with everyone else who ventured into the area and some legends of Apache thunder gods.


Although other Spaniards, such as Father Garces and Juan Bautista de Anza, traveled extensively through what is now Arizona, the desolate region of the Superstitions remained relatively untouched until the early 1800s. It was then that miners from Mexico invaded the Superstition wilderness in search of gold.

The name always associated with the early mining history of the Superstitions is the name Peralta. There are several theories as to just who the Peraltas were and exactly how much gold, if any, they recovered in the Superstition Mountains. The most popular story has Don Miguel Peralta, a wealthy miner and land owner from northern Mexico, initiating gold mining expeditions into the Superstitions in 1847-48. Several trips were made, and vast quantities of gold were returned to Mexico. The Apaches, however, became irritated with these uninvited "guests" in their mountain sanctuary. This resulted in the famed episode at Massacre Grounds, located at the western end of the mountains. Here, according to legend, the Peralta-led mining expedition was exterminated. At least one Peralta survived, however, and returned to Mexico with maps to the gold mines and a tale of terror.


This story of the Peraltas in the Superstitions is the basis for many of the later expeditions which have ventured into the Superstitions to search for gold. Glenn Magill, a private investigator from Oklahoma, traced the ancestry of the Peralta family to the town of Arizpe in Mexico. In an interview with Maria Peralta, Magill discovered that "the grandfather of her husband had been named Don Miguel Peralta. And his father, who was named Don Miguel Peralta also, had been killed in Arizona by the Apaches, along with several of his sons. They were miners also."'

Now... If you find something else in there (this time) that you disagree with. That would still be an issue to be settled between you and Tom. I have no personal interest in, or opinions about the accuracy of the information either way.

Best,

Jim

 

[Blindbowman]

Jim,

Tom will be the first to tell you that he is not always correct. He will also tell you that he and I do not always agree, but we disagree with respect. That has worked very well for our friendship. There has never been a time when we disagree, and felt it necessary to phone the other and curse them out, or call them names.

For instance, when I told him my theory about his being involved in creating the Stone Maps, he laughed and said he was flatterd. On the other hand, we both agree they are modern-day creations.

No doubt you have the same kind of relationship with the Kollenborn's, knowing them as long as you have.

Are you saying I am wrong about the Skull Cave Battle?

Thanks for your reply,

Joe Ribaudo

"For instance, when I told him my theory about his being involved in creating the Stone Maps, he laughed and said he was flatterd. On the other hand, we both agree they are modern-day creations"

then you would both be wrong ....they are out right not modern-day creations.. thats totall foolish to even draw that concluetion ,

ok you want to play .. how did the Peralta camp site end up on the stones /? come on you know so much about them joe lets here it .. how did the peralta camp site end up on the Tayopa /Peralta stones .

lets here a clear answer ...

yes the Peralta camp site is on the stones .... so the stones are at lest 1877 and the only problem with them being made then is the tayopa letters and the stones are coded together as one puzzle .. and the tayopa letters were writern in 1640-1646 .. i can prove it ... so where dose that leave your theory of the stones being modern day creations .. i can tell you right where that leave your theory .... in the out going fools box ....


i am totally sorry that so many work so hard on therir opioions and theories just to be wrong .. but thats the way the bell tolls ...

i think your just trying to misleed people joe .. you have been trying from day one .. i just dont care what you say any more your wrong and i could care if you waste your time and breath trying to misleed every one or not .. i dont buy it and i know why you keep pokeing at jim ... same old games ...

i could end all this in 5 mins .. but its funny to watch you think you know what your doing when its clear your acting sucks ...

 

[cactusjumper]

Cactus Jumper HAHAHA Why would you call me by that name? Do you think I seek power? It's NALZHEEHÍ LANOHWILE. I have a saying and it goes like this "Silence is a privalage" I know what you are trying to get me to say or do and it will never happen!

Best Wishes
Kurt Painter

I have no idea what you are talking about, when you write "LANOHWILE" in relation to my calling you "Nalzheehi", which simply means hunter. I don't know if you are seeking "power". Are you? "Lanohwile" does not mean one who is seaking power. In the Apache culture, one does not seek power, it seeks them.

I also have no idea what you mean when you write, "I know what you are trying to get me to say or do and it will never happen!" If you will clue me in, I will avoid the subject.

I understand the Apache silence, or "to give up on words". Because you give up on words doesn't mean you have nothing to say. Do you?

I am here to exchange ideas with you, aashcho. If that seems a little too suggestive, we can substitute shilt'iye or simply ash. I could also just write shiich'oonii if you prefer. In that same vein, I will close with,

Nzhogo nandago,

Joe Ribuado

 

[Javaone]

<some of the quotes below have been edited for space.>

Bill,

I know you weren't addressing me, but I have done a lot of searching trying to place the Apache in the Superstitions. Other than the Tonto Apache and those that came off San Carlos to find a little excitement and goodies, there is not much out there.

Take care,
Joe

Joe, I thought it to be quite nice of Jim to help you with references.

People can make arguments against an Apache presence in the Superstition Mountains all day long as long as they are pulling them off the top of their heads and not quoting from reliable references.

Even the earliest maps of the area which include the superstition Mountains call them Apacheria all the way back to Kino's time.

And from Tom Kollenborn's book - "A RIDE THROUGH TIME" comes the following quotes concerning the Apache presence in the Superstition Mountains:

It was in the Superstitions that Major Brown's forces met and combined with the troops of Captain James Burns. Captain Burns had just returned from a skirmish in the Four Peaks area and had captured two prisoners, one a young Apache boy whom they renamed Mike Burns. Lieutenant John G. Bourke was also on this Apache chase and documented the ensuing fight which came to be known as the Battle of Skull Cave. Skull Cave is located high above what is now Canyon Lake at the north end of the Superstitions. This particular encounter had disastrous results for the Apaches.
Best,

Jim

In fairness – Jim merely quoted Tom Ks book. Don’t believe he was looking to debate whether or not they were Apache or Yavapai.

Mr. Nalzheehi,

"You said there was no apache in the supe's and we know you are wrong about that."

I suppose you could be right. Seems to me there have been quite a few posts concerning the Apache in the Superstitions, so there must be a little interest in the subject.

Perhaps you can copy and paste the post where I write that there were NO Apache in the Superstitions.

Joe Ribaudo

Kurt, to be fair to Joe – I cannot find where he said that either.

Jim,

As you know, I am a great fan of Apache history. In that vein, can you tell me who the other person was that the troops captured along with Hoomothya?

I look forward to your reply, as I know you are one smart cookie when it comes to all things related to the Superstition Mountains.

Joe Ribaudo

Interesting question Joe – Wonder if Jim can answer that…

 

[Jim Hatt]

re: Interesting question Joe – Wonder if Jim can answer that…


Wish I could Jerry, but again... Those are Tom's words. He is the only one who could answer that question if anyone could.

Best,

Jim

 

[Blindbowman]

is this the dead end part ,,,lol

 

[Javaone]

re: Interesting question Joe – Wonder if Jim can answer that…


Wish I could Jerry, but again... Those are Tom's words. He is the only one who could answer that question if anyone could.

Best,

Jim

Fair enough Jim...

Hey, what happened to Kurt's reply/post - It was just there...

 

[Jim Hatt]

Jerry,

I was just wondering the same thing.
It must have been one of those "Violation of Terms" things.

Jim

 

[Javaone]

Jerry,

I was just wondering the same thing.
It must have been one of those "Violation of Terms" things.

Jim

I just can't imagine Kurt doing that - I know I would never do such a thing.