Diversions,Dead Ends and Wild Cards

[cactusjumper]

It seems to me that someone recently posted that Father Jacobo Sedelmayr traveled through the Superstitions on his expedition from Tubutama in 1744. Looking back for that post, I couldn't find it.

I thought it was Hal's post, but I could be wrong. Does anyone think Father Sedelmayr described seeing or entering the Superstitions?

Joe Ribaudo

 

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[silent hunter]

Joe I am a bit impressed that you attempted to research a wild card like the LDS. I am from the peterson family myself. Lonnie Peterson is my grandfather.

bEST wISHES
Kurt Painter

 

[silent hunter]

Father Jacobo Sedelmayr was in the valley,but I haven't read anything about his trip's into the superstitions. Quote "Father Sedelmayr came upon broad savannas of reed grass and clumps of willow and a beautiful spring with good land for pasture.” He gave it the name Santa Teresa; it later became known as Maricopa Wells."

bEST wISHES
Kurt Painter

 

[cactusjumper]

Hal,

It was the land of the Tohono O'odham (Papago Indians) and Father Kino had visited them 50 years before Father Sedelmayr. Even though Kino had camped near the place, he did not give it a name.

It would seem you needed to read more than one of my posts to get to know me. I have done extensive research into the Mormon Church, including it's history. I'm no fan of the religion, but have family who are "Temple Worthy".

On my own, and with a number of like minded others, I have tried to find whatever truth exists concerning the history of the LDM and other legends of the Superstitions. That has led me far afield and into a wide range of topics.

In, almost, all cases, I have shared my findings, as have my partners. Many people, like Tom Kollenborn, Bob Corbin, Gene Reynolds and others, had searched for Eleanor Clark for years, without finding a trace of her. Because of our efforts, a window into the history of Adolph Ruth was opened for all Dutch Hunters.

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~gcundiff/LostDutchman/ruth/clark/Clark.htm

The same team debunked the Frank Alkire/Jacob Waltz story. That took a great deal of research and personal cost to find the truth. I assume you are aware of our findings, as we made them public.

There are many, many stories that surround the LDM legend. We believe that, taking them one at a time, it's possible to clear the field for the true stories.

I feel that I have made serious contributions to the Dutch Hunting Comunity, not the least of which is starting the Dutch Hunter's Rendezvous.

I would like to think there is more to me than one post.

Joe Ribaudo

 

[jimb]

I wonder if Fr. Kino had any personal notes on the area? I use to work with his only living relative. And about 15 or so years ago he was invited to go out West to a celebration for Fr Kino to give a talk. If I get to see Joe again I will ask him if Fr. Kino left him any personel writings.

 

[Cubfan64]

I wonder if Fr. Kino had any personal notes on the area? I use to work with his only living relative. And about 15 or so years ago he was invited to go out West to a celebration for Fr Kino to give a talk. If I get to see Joe again I will ask him if Fr. Kino left him any personel writings.

That would be fascinating.

 

[silent hunter]

Joe HAHAHA don't feel bad that I said I know you from one post. Your arrogance makes you a easy target. Your Post's seem to just tapered off, after piquing my curiosity. It's your wrong and I am going to prove it with book information attitude that makes everything you say a gray area. Your personal views on things that pertain to the topic, for instance. In your reply to my post on Mormons why did you have to include your negative statement about the LDS? Also my name is Kurt not Hal my friend. You have either made a mistake by addressing me as Hal or maybe you think that I am Hal?
Joe's quote "I'm no fan of the religion," Joe what the heck are you infusing history with your own opinion? And how often does this happen with you?
bEST wISHES
Kurt Painter

 

[cactusjumper]

Joe HAHAHA don't feel bad that I said I know you from one post. Your arrogance makes you a easy target. Your Post's seem to just tapered off, after piquing my curiosity. It's your wrong and I am going to prove it with book information attitude that makes everything you say a gray area. Your personal views on things that pertain to the topic, for instance. In your reply to my post on Mormons why did you have to include your negative statement about the LDS? Also my name is Kurt not Hal my friend. You have either made a mistake by addressing me as Hal or maybe you think that I am Hal?
Joe's quote "I'm no fan of the religion," Joe what the heck are you infusing history with your own opinion? And how often does this happen with you?
bEST wISHES
Kurt Painter

Kurt,

I made a couple of mistakes there. Calling you Hal was one. My appologies to Hal, as I had no intention of insulting him. My other mistake was thinking I could have some kind of reasonable exchange of information with you.

My personal opinion has nothing to do with Mormon history, which I know very well.

Have a nice life,

Joe Ribaudo

 

[cactusjumper]

I wonder if Fr. Kino had any personal notes on the area? I use to work with his only living relative. And about 15 or so years ago he was invited to go out West to a celebration for Fr Kino to give a talk. If I get to see Joe again I will ask him if Fr. Kino left him any personel writings.

That would be fascinating.

Jimb & Paul,

Both Father Kino and Juan Mateo Manje mention the village of Santa Teresa in their writings. Both men give a short description of the area.

Take care,

Joe

 

[Blindbowman]

Hal,

It was the land of the Tohono O'odham (Papago Indians) and Father Kino had visited them 50 years before Father Sedelmayr. Even though Kino had camped near the place, he did not give it a name.

It would seem you needed to read more than one of my posts to get to know me. I have done extensive research into the Mormon Church, including it's history. I'm no fan of the religion, but have family who are "Temple Worthy".

On my own, and with a number of like minded others, I have tried to find whatever truth exists concerning the history of the LDM and other legends of the Superstitions. That has led me far afield and into a wide range of topics.

In, almost, all cases, I have shared my findings, as have my partners. Many people, like Tom Kollenborn, Bob Corbin, Gene Reynolds and others, had searched for Eleanor Clark for years, without finding a trace of her. Because of our efforts, a window into the history of Adolph Ruth was opened for all Dutch Hunters.

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~gcundiff/LostDutchman/ruth/clark/Clark.htm

The same team debunked the Frank Alkire/Jacob Waltz story. That took a great deal of research and personal cost to find the truth. I assume you are aware of our findings, as we made them public.

There are many, many stories that surround the LDM legend. We believe that, taking them one at a time, it's possible to clear the field for the true stories.

I feel that I have made serious contributions to the Dutch Hunting Comunity, not the least of which is starting the Dutch Hunter's Rendezvous.

I would like to think there is more to me than one post.

Joe Ribaudo

has anyone got a shovel . ...wow ....

joe:
i find my self careing for a stroke victum and its a 24 /7 job right now .. but dude .. you better hope i never make the redenous you are so wrong you dont even under stand why ..

at this point i feel sorry for you ...

just keep talking your at lest good at that ...lol

 

[jimb]

I wonder if Fr. Kino had any personal notes on the area? I use to work with his only living relative. And about 15 or so years ago he was invited to go out West to a celebration for Fr Kino to give a talk. If I get to see Joe again I will ask him if Fr. Kino left him any personel writings.

That would be fascinating.

Jimb & Paul,

Both Father Kino and Juan Mateo Manje mention the village of Santa Teresa in their writings. Both men give a short description of the area.

Take care,

Joe

Joe, I do not mean official notes. I mean private unofficial notes. Jim

 

[cactusjumper]

Jim,

I'm not sure that there are "private unofficial notes" that have not been used and published by the various historians who put many years of research into their history.

Not knowing the answer to your question, I would need to ask some of my sources for the real answer.

It may take a little time, but I will see what's out there.

Take care,

Joe

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

G'morning Joe: Historian's Private notes often are not used or published, especially if they do not fit into their published version - convenient of course.

As for treasure hunters, they normally do not come out with all of their versions / data, either, naturally.


Then again, some have soo much data that they will freely give it away to the members of the brotherhood, just to help others and realizing that they will never begin to cover them in their lifetime.

In my case, I have hundreds, but almost all are in Mexico. They run from mines, ships, to Treasures. No-one wants them or will do anything about them, and I am too lazy to put them down in organized form. I should, since much of this information will be gone forever when I, err, ah, leave.

Being 87 now, I only have some 63 years left to my 150 th birthday party. After that I think that I may retire from treasure and lost mine hunting, and concentrate of well flung together, human females, to show my appreciation of the Lord's magnificent work in creating them just for me.

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[Javaone]

G'morning Joe: Historian's Private notes often are not used or published, especially if they do not fit into their published version - convenient of course.

As for treasure hunters, they normally do not come out with all of their versions / data, either, naturally.


Then again, some have soo much data that they will freely give it away to the members of the brotherhood, just to help others and realizing that they will never begin to cover them in their lifetime.

In my case, I have hundreds, but almost all are in Mexico. They run from mines, ships, to Treasures. No-one wants them or will do anything about them, and I am too lazy to put them down in organized form. I should, since much of this information will be gone forever when I, err, ah, leave.

Being 87 now, I only have some 63 years left to my 150 th birthday party. After that I think that I may retire from treasure and lost mine hunting, and concentrate of well flung together, human females, to show my appreciation of the Lord's magnificent work in creating them just for me.

Don Jose de La Mancha

Real,

Throughout all of your years treasure hunting, you must have obviously found the fountian of youth... Care to share??

 

[Cubfan64]

Jim,

I'm not sure that there are "private unofficial notes" that have not been used and published by the various historians who spent many years of research into their history.

Not knowing the answer to your question, I would need to ask some of my sources for the real answer.

It may take a little time, but I will see what's out there.

Take care,

Joe

Joe,

You may be misreading jimb's question/statement...

jimb was just suggesting that Kino's relative (another person named Joe) who he used to work with, may have some of Kino's "private" notes that have never been published, and he was hoping to ask him if/when he sees him again.

 

[Cubfan64]

G'morning Joe: Historian's Private notes often are not used or published, especially if they do not fit into their published version - convenient of course.

As for treasure hunters, they normally do not come out with all of their versions / data, either, naturally.


Then again, some have soo much data that they will freely give it away to the members of the brotherhood, just to help others and realizing that they will never begin to cover them in their lifetime.

In my case, I have hundreds, but almost all are in Mexico. They run from mines, ships, to Treasures. No-one wants them or will do anything about them, and I am too lazy to put them down in organized form. I should, since much of this information will be gone forever when I, err, ah, leave.

Being 87 now, I only have some 63 years left to my 150 th birthday party. After that I think that I may retire from treasure and lost mine hunting, and concentrate of well flung together, human females, to show my appreciation of the Lord's magnificent work in creating them just for me.

Don Jose de La Mancha

Real,

You REALLY should put your notes together sometime and figure out a way to pass them on to someone before you go searching for treasures in the skies . You're being quite presumptuous when you say no-one wants them or will do anything about them...

Odds are quite high that there is a young "Don Jose" out there reading about Lost Treasures from his grade school library and dreaming about one day going on his own searches.

 

[silent hunter]

Why wouldn't have Keno sent out people to search the area Joe? Jim I for one can't wait for any information you can get that pertains to Keno. I will be looking forward to your next post.

bEST wISHES
Kurt Painter

 

[cactusjumper]

Jim,

I'm not sure that there are "private unofficial notes" that have not been used and published by the various historians who spent many years of research into their history.

Not knowing the answer to your question, I would need to ask some of my sources for the real answer.

It may take a little time, but I will see what's out there.

Take care,

Joe

Joe,

You may be misreading jimb's question/statement...

jimb was just suggesting that Kino's relative (another person named Joe) who he used to work with, may have some of Kino's "private" notes that have never been published, and he was hoping to ask him if/when he sees him again.

Paul,

I understood Jim's post. It's possible that some private notes are being held in secret, but I have my doubts.......in this case. Father Kino's private writings are prolific and include letters, manuscripts and diaries.

The search for any small scrap of original work has been extensive and was carried on for many years. It's possible that something may have been missed, but it seems unlikely that anything of importance was left uncovered.

It would be a great find if something else were discovered in someone's private collection or stuffed in the corner of a celler or attic. Let's hope that Joe has something new.

Take care,

Joe

 

[Cubfan64]

Jim,

I'm not sure that there are "private unofficial notes" that have not been used and published by the various historians who spent many years of research into their history.

Not knowing the answer to your question, I would need to ask some of my sources for the real answer.

It may take a little time, but I will see what's out there.

Take care,

Joe

Joe,

You may be misreading jimb's question/statement...

jimb was just suggesting that Kino's relative (another person named Joe) who he used to work with, may have some of Kino's "private" notes that have never been published, and he was hoping to ask him if/when he sees him again.

Paul,

I understood Jim's post. It's possible that some private notes are being held in secret, but I have my doubts.......in this case. Father Kino's private writings are prolific and include letters, manuscripts and diaries.

The search for any small scrap of original work has been extensive and was carried on for many years. It's possible that something may have been missed, but it seems unlikely that anything of importance was left uncovered.

It would be a great find if something else were discovered in someone's private collection or stuffed in the corner of a celler or attic. Let's hope that Joe has something new.

Take care,

Joe

Looks like I was the one misinterpretting

Anyways - either way, it would be interesting to have any previously undocumented items from Kino show up oneday. Stuff still shows up like that now and then in a trunk or tucked in a book or something - one never knows.

 

[somehiker]

There is likely to be a large amount of written material out there,yet to be translated and/or made public.
One such example,once owned by Athanasias Kircher,and recently studied and dated by ASU is the Voynich Manuscript.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voynich_manuscript

Regards:SH.