Copper tool

[Mintberrycrunch]

Found on a river near known Indian mounds I was hoping copper culture probably wishful thinking any thoughts. Update after sending out a few emails to people dealing in bronze artifacts I may have a lead I'll post the email

 

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[Mintberrycrunch]

Several red brasses have 4 of those elements, Cu, Zn, Sn, and Pb although not in the exact percentages but fairly close. I looked at Wikipedia at the last table on the page. Of course, those are modern alloys listed. Before alloy standards came in use, every foundry had their own recipes for metal alloys that varied a little from what the next foundry used. The Fe (iron) in the analysis could be either contamination from the crucible or a deliberate "recipe" addition. We may never know, unless someone comes up with a matching part with known history to it.

Also, did you get a chance to re analyze it with 3 tests in different locations? Just curious.

No I never tested it 3 times. I will if you are interested but will it change anything really? It's more similar to ancient compositions than anything modern. But if getting an average would be helpful I will. Let me know but I'll get it tested at the same place 3 times.

 

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[DCMatt]

Came across this recently. It may be of some interest:

Composition Analysis of Michigan Copper | ancient america

 

[tamrock]

If only the great library of Alexandra was preserved for us all today. Who knows what all may have been recorded within it to the point of its destruction.

 

[Mintberrycrunch]

Came across this recently. It may be of some interest:

Composition Analysis of Michigan Copper | ancient america

That's a good link Crazy that it's pretty much excepted that copper mining in Michigan was going on sometime BC. And that copper fueled the Bronze Age for the rest of the world. But other than native Americans we have no ancient past in North America? All though there is plenty of evidence proving otherwise. Just like this link talks about

 

[oldsilver]

Ok try this one... a fireplace damper /flue adjustment knob , broken in the normal way they twist when they break? my .02
Nice find, whatever it turns out to be. Keep swinging!!!

 

[Mintberrycrunch]

Ok try this one... a fireplace damper /flue adjustment knob , broken in the normal way they twist when they break? my .02
Nice find, whatever it turns out to be. Keep swinging!!!

Until I get a positive id it's a paper weight. Have you found any fireplace damper keys that were similar? If that is such a thing? I don't think it's anything modern if it is should be pretty easy to prove

 

[Kiros32]

Have you considered the possibility of this being an Entoptic artifact? Cave paintings have been found and are thought to have been forms and shapes "seen" as eye floaters. Perhaps rather than a painting, someone decided to form it from copper.

Entoptic artifacts as universal trance phenomena

 

[CRUSADER]

One year and one day since I posted this. I'm waiting to hear back from the BM before I contact any other museums. So happy one year anniversary

Sometime ago I told you your be waiting a long time to get anything from the BM.

No point waiting, fire off as many emails to as many Museums as possible.

 

[Mintberrycrunch]

Have you considered the possibility of this being an Entoptic artifact? Cave paintings have been found and are thought to have been forms and shapes "seen" as eye floaters. Perhaps rather than a painting, someone decided to form it from copper.

Entoptic artifacts as universal trance phenomena

Very interesting theory I've never heard of that before. I might just have to try it out could be a good time. Thanks for the information I love hearing new ideas

 

[MadTom]

Looks like a hand held candle holder.

 

[Bruce R]

Was watching a show yesterday about the copper culture in early America, turns out they never had smelting knowledge or skills, that came with the European settlers. Early American copper artifacts are beaten copper as opposed to cast. Mintey's piece sure looks cast.

 

[mcl]

Was watching a show yesterday about the copper culture in early America, turns out they never had smelting knowledge or skills, that came with the European settlers. Early American copper artifacts are beaten copper as opposed to cast. Mintey's piece sure looks cast.

M-dog won't believe this statement

 

[releventchair]

Was watching a show yesterday about the copper culture in early America, turns out they never had smelting knowledge or skills, that came with the European settlers. Early American copper artifacts are beaten copper as opposed to cast. Mintey's piece sure looks cast.

Through South America into Mexico smelting was used.
In the great lakes region ,with wholesome/ solid mass copper deposits ( vs copper " dust" for example in Arizona ,where at least one mine shows or did show a while back samples of Mi. Copper to folks on a tour) , smelting was not needed for the majority of it' s use.
Beating and folding and annealing were however employed to reach a preferred ductile state.
All metal working skills than can be argued as learned from elsewhere ( and who all mined copper in Michigan?) ...Or learned by trial and error.
Ancient trade routes existed. Items traded ,or gifted turn up far from their origins.
Some skills too might be expected to ,in time be transferred . More so when practical and they apply to resources at hand.
Where smelting did not reach a high level ( as in it' s late compared to farther south arrival but performed in mass in Mexico) it is usually not recognised as " advanced" enough to note.

 

[Mintberrycrunch]

Sometime ago I told you your be waiting a long time to get anything from the BM.

No point waiting, fire off as many emails to as many Museums as possible.

Thanks do you have an in at any place in particular?

 

[CRUSADER]

Thanks do you have an in at any place in particular?

I have lots of contacts. None of them are going to be able to help on this one.

 

[coinman123]

Sometime ago I told you your be waiting a long time to get anything from the BM.

No point waiting, fire off as many emails to as many Museums as possible.

I sent an email in got one three days later. I guess it all involves luck.

I bumped this thread so there is a better hope of it getting solved, new people will hopefully look at it.

 

[Mintberrycrunch]

I sent an email in got one three days later. I guess it all involves luck.

I bumped this thread so there is a better hope of it getting solved, new people will hopefully look at it.

Thank you. They hit me back within a day I guess it just takes a while to get that follow up. To me just says they don't have answer either way. I'll stick with no news is good news as of now. If they thought it was anything modern I'm sure I would have heard back since October.

 

[TiredIron]

I read the first 10-11 pages and decided to just throw in my best guess like everybody else. Due to the material...size...complexity of design...and the fact that the arms on the open end look like they've been mildly torqued due to a twisting motion...I think this object has something to do with "Gas devices of some sort". Something to do with "Gas Valves" like used in lighting from the 1750-1920's. Look at all these items on this Google Search Page. I don't know what it is or how it was used....it just looks familiar to these other Gas items. It looks like its used for reaching into a hole a few inches and turning something. Or maybe used on an oil or kerosene lamp.....something that didn't require a lot of leverage.
TiredIron

NAHHH....Scratch everything I've said. I'm back to thinking (or agreeing with others) that its a drawer pull. Something like this. That's my final guess....

https://www.google.com/search?q=Gas...UIBygC&biw=1280&bih=621#imgrc=-ucPSsQU8c_BdM:

 

[Mintberrycrunch]

I read the first 10-11 pages and decided to just throw in my best guess like everybody else. Due to the material...size...complexity of design...and the fact that the arms on the open end look like they've been mildly torqued due to a twisting motion...I think this object has something to do with "Gas devices of some sort". Something to do with "Gas Valves" like used in lighting from the 1750-1920's. Look at all these items on this Google Search Page. I don't know what it is or how it was used....it just looks familiar to these other Gas items. It looks like its used for reaching into a hole a few inches and turning something. Or maybe used on an oil or kerosene lamp.....something that didn't require a lot of leverage.
TiredIron

NAHHH....Scratch everything I've said. I'm back to thinking (or agreeing with others) that its a drawer pull. Something like this. That's my final guess....

https://www.google.com/search?q=Gas...UIBygC&biw=1280&bih=621#imgrc=-ucPSsQU8c_BdM:

That's 3 for door knocker I better mark this solved thanks for input. So sad you had to go with the masses on door knocker. Plz prove your argument I've seen some pretty obscure objects get IDed here if it's just a door knocker plz enlighten us.

 

[relic lover]

If it makes you feel any better I no longer think it's a door knocker LOL

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