COIN EXPERT NEEDED - Coral encrusted coins!!!!

[BVI Hunter]

posted this on TODAYS FINDS as I was excited!

http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/today-s-finds/355763-does-coral-beep-yes-when-its-full-coins.html




can anyone identify??

thanks!!!

 

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[Mackaydon]

Spanish coins (from Mexico) during the reign of Felipe V used the spelling PHILIPPVS V during the following periods; all beginning in 1701--till 1732 for 1Rs; to 1733 for 2Rs; for 1734 for 4Rs and 8Rs. Thereafter, till the end of his reign (1746) he used the spelling PHILIP V. The larger coin obviously used the PHILIPPVS legend. No telling what the other dates of the larger coins may be. BTW, those coins of P. V (1s, 2s 4s and 8s) ranged from .916 to .931 pure silver depending on denomination and year.
Don....

 

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[cudamark]

Cudamark,
Edward V of England ruled for just a few days during the year 1483. Was there another Edward V of (??) who ruled "around the turn of the 20th century"?
Don........

Sorry, I meant Edward VII, I forgot the two lines. After looking closer, the lettering is similar but not as close as the Spanish pieces shown.

 

[ivan salis]

yep the brits in florida regularly used spainish money * heck it was the "common trading money" of the day for everyone

 

[Bum Luck]

yep the brits in florida regularly used spainish money * heck it was the "common trading money" of the day for everyone

Yup. they had more of it than anybody, obviously.

 

[WildDigger]

If you found them anywhere near Norman island you have pirate treasure for sure. Possible some of Blackbeards treasure. Congrats and pound the area hit the water deeper.

 

[Mackaydon]

The fact that coins of various denominations are in the same stack indicates that the coins were not part of a government transfer; more likely, owned by an individual (or pirate group).
Don.......

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Maybe they forgot to check his pockets when they made him walk the plank.

 

[Mackaydon]

Johnsas,
Can you give it another shot at measuring the diameter of the largest coin. You had mentioned the diameter was "about an inch". An inch is 25.4 mm. The coins of Felipe V measured about 17 mm for a 1/2R, 20 and 27 mm for a 1R, 28 mm for a 2R, 34 and 36 mm for a 4R and 40 mm for an 8R. Thanks,
BTW, there may be enough legend and design on the 'bottoms up' pic of the largest coin to at least partially ID that coin. Turn the pic 180 degrees and increase the magnification and you'll see the 'cross' side along with a couple of letters.
Don.....

 

[woodstock]

I agree , so they should go try to find more before the make any attempt to remove them . Now my question is this . Many coin finds have to have the coral and other clinging debris removed before they can be identified . And it also helps then to identify the wreck they came from identified and those coins seemed to come out of cleaning undamaged , then sold for big bucks at auctions . How much damage can be done that hasn't been done by the coral and debris already ? I understand if a novice tries to remove the incrustation but if a expert does this won't the risk be worth it ? HH. Woodstock

Like I posted on the other forum: Right now you have something from a Spanish shipwreck thats very unique and desirable. If you seperate them, all you will have is a handful of damaged coins with no shipwreck connection.

I hope I am not too late with the advice. Im sure Mackaydon can ID them with the size and more pic.

 

[BVI Hunter]

Johnsas,
Can you give it another shot at measuring the diameter of the largest coin. You had mentioned the diameter was "about an inch". An inch is 25.4 mm. The coins of Felipe V measured about 17 mm for a 1/2R, 20 and 27 mm for a 1R, 28 mm for a 2R, 34 and 36 mm for a 4R and 40 mm for an 8R. Thanks,
BTW, there may be enough legend and design on the 'bottoms up' pic of the largest coin to at least partially ID that coin. Turn the pic 180 degrees and increase the magnification and you'll see the 'cross' side along with a couple of letters.
Don.....

the largest coin is a FRACTION over an inch - so 27mm??
the smaller coin with the "crown" is 5/8 so 16mm??

hope this helps!!

 

[ivan salis]

well by size -- a 1 real at 27 mm or 2 reale's at 28 mm are in the running * *28 mm because it could have had slight wear on it) -- the 15 mm one could clearly be a heavily worn 1/2 real (normally 17 mm) -- these are smaller ever day use type silver coins that were commonly used --much like a 1 , 5 and 10 dollar bill of todays time frame -- these could have easily been "stacked up" in a leather pouch when lost--- basically a very old form of "pocket spill" * but what "event" caused the event of loss to occur? --soldier killed during fighting, indain spear fishing attacked by shark , shipwreck --one has to wonder if there is more about

 

[BVI Hunter]

OK, so after a day or two in distilled water, a little grime came off - tried to get a close up of the small coin underneath which appears to have a crown?
Did not come out much clearer but the silver one just below seems to have markings of some sort?

Also another close up of the letter on one of the upper silver coins??

hope this helps!!

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

I think its a date. Looks like 29 and after that HIS.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

I got it. I think its 1729*HIS The coins are all Spanish milled not cobs. Cobs were made in the New World, milled were made in the old (Spain). Spanish Silver Milled Coinage

 

[BVI Hunter]

I got it. I think its 1729*HIS The coins are all Spanish milled not cobs. Cobs were made in the New World, milled were made in the old (Spain). Spanish Silver Milled Coinage

WOW! you da man!!!

any difference (or known) value in the two types of coin, or the one i have??

thanks again for identifying this one!!!

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

I think this may be the coin. 1729. Mack will verify. 1729 Mint Coins from Spain ordered by Denomination - The Coin Database

 

[BuckleBoy]

Nice ID. The smaller coin is also spanish, with the coat of arms and crown above.

I'd leave 'em together, and search like hell for more!


Best Wishes,

Buck

 

[Mackaydon]

'Regular' and 'royal'cobs and milled coins were each manufactured in the New World; specifically, in Mexico City, for one. Milled coins in Mexico started in 1732 (1/2s, 1s, 2s, 4s and 8s); 1796 for 1/4Rs and 1814 for 1/16th and 1/8th real coins. My guess is that the stack contains denominations of 1, 2 and 4R based on the OPs statement that the largest coin was just a 'FRACTION' greater than an inch. Unfortunately, the largest diameter coins in the stack (in the 20s mm) precludes the largest coins being 'pieces of eight' (Spanish dollars) at 40 mm.
Don....

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

'Regular' and 'royal'cobs and milled coins were each manufactured in the New World; specifically, in Mexico City, for one. Milled coins in Mexico started in 1732 (1/2s, 1s, 2s, 4s and 8s); 1796 for 1/4Rs and 1814 for 1/16th and 1/8th real coins. My guess is that the stack contains denominations of 1, 2 and 4R based on the OPs statement that the largest coin was just a 'FRACTION' greater than an inch. Unfortunately, the largest diameter coins in the stack (in the 20s mm) precludes the largest coins being 'pieces of eight' (Spanish dollars) at 40 mm.
Don....

Yes of course I realize eventually milled coins were minted in the New World that we now live in. I was trying to refer to the heyday of cobs; to the colonial period in 1729 and prior. But thanks for the exact dateline.


We dont yet know the dates of any other coins but my bet is that these are not New World minted coins and I seriously doubt they are Royals..

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

I think these are Old World Pistareens just like I guessed back in the beginning reply #14. http://numismatics.org/wikiuploads/CNL/Pistareens.pdf

"...pistereens were familiar coins in common usage throughout colonial America. Pistareens traveled west by sea from Spain into the Windward Islands of the Caribbean, to the Sugar Colony of Barbados, and beyond to America where they washed ashore with seagoing wayfarers at colonial seaports and river landings."


If Im wrong, Im sure someone will tell me.
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