CODEBREAKER COMMENTS ABOUT BEALE CIPHERS

[franklin]

So you now agree with Franklin? So are we to understand that you now believe that Benjamin Cooper was the guide of the Beale party? Franklin said that's what he believes.

I think I said if the Beale Party actually did exist and went to Sante Fe they could have been the Benjamin Cooper party. When TJB left St. Louis in mid-May 1822, he and his party would have been about at the location where Jacob Fowler in tow with James Pursley now released after 17 years of imprisonment by the Spanish. This was around the 5th of July on the plains of Kansas. Yes I said it could have been the Beale Party but there is no documented proof as no proof whatsoever has ever been found. I used John Bell's daily journal to find where they camped and how many days it took them to travel. You can also use his return trip down the Red River for campsites. Nothing has been nailed down. But, if one forgets all history, all stories that could relate and concentrate only on the 23 page Job Print Pamphlet. Work on the author's story and the author's deciphering C2, you will find that the author made the entire story up.

By the way the un-named party would have been the De Muin and Chateou Party out of St. Louis they were captured SW of Denver I believe it was Great Camp Creek or something like that. They were eventually released but their stores were kept by the Spanish.

 

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[Rebel - KGC]

I will "focus" SOON, on the "decoded" section from BC # 2...

Henceforth... from PV's book, THE BEALE TREASURE: NEW History of a MYSTERY, Chapt. 3 (pg 22-44; pg. 20-21 of the Beale Papers Pamphlet... pg 41-42 of PV's book); " I have deposited (why not WE?)...in the county of Bedford, about four miles from Buford's (WHAT? Tavern, Depot, Fancy Farm?), in an excavation or vault (Prepared?)... six feet below the surface of the ground (sounds like a GRAVE!)... the following articles, belonging jointly to the parties whose names are given in number "3",..." More later.

 

[bigscoop]

Did someone say, "Milk and cookies?" So while I was away you guys were eating cookies!!!!
What kind were they? Better not say those peanut butter cookies with the chocolate kisses on top.

 

[releventchair]

I think I said if the Beale Party actually did exist and went to Sante Fe they could have been the Benjamin Cooper party. When TJB left St. Louis in mid-May 1822, he and his party would have been about at the location where Jacob Fowler in tow with James Pursley now released after 17 years of imprisonment by the Spanish. This was around the 5th of July on the plains of Kansas. Yes I said it could have been the Beale Party but there is no documented proof as no proof whatsoever has ever been found. I used John Bell's daily journal to find where they camped and how many days it took them to travel. You can also use his return trip down the Red River for campsites. Nothing has been nailed down. But, if one forgets all history, all stories that could relate and concentrate only on the 23 page Job Print Pamphlet. Work on the author's story and the author's deciphering C2, you will find that the author made the entire story up.

By the way the un-named party would have been the De Muin and Chateou Party out of St. Louis they were captured SW of Denver I believe it was Great Camp Creek or something like that. They were eventually released but their stores were kept by the Spanish.

Was Auguste Chouteau connected to De Muin /Chateou party?

(Sorry ,computer is still down and research takes a hit as a result; or I'd look.)

 

[TN_Guest1523]

In looking at the Beale Papers in a lower critical form .

1. Only look at the letters from Beale as misguiding information as not to incriminate himself .
a. 250-300 miles North of Santa Fe would put him in US Territory, this statement as not to incriminate himself .
1a. Why give the location of the place the gold was from, if not a misdirect .
b. Time needed to mine the amount of gold from an area that he said he was in does not coincide with a mining operation, but that of a recovery attempt .
c. If Santa Fe was the city were they stayed why have a hunting party going 250-300 miles north for game ?

2. If we only look at the first person to verify the person Beale in the Papers, Mr Morriss . We can see that Jan 1820 seems to be the first date of an outside reference to Beale in the Papers .
a. The letters to Morriss ( two not in the box ) are misleading as to the true nature of the mission Beale was on .
b. The letters to Morriss in the box possibly are also misleading as to the purpose of the mission Beale was on .
c. Beale would not incriminate himself by writing the true nature of his mission in the letters not in cipher .
d. Beale had 8-10 weeks in the two time he was with Mr Morriss to give inside information to him we do not have in the Papers .

 

[franklin]

Was Auguste Chouteau connected to De Muin /Chateou party?

(Sorry ,computer is still down and research takes a hit as a result; or I'd look.)

Yes he was and so were several expeditions out west to trade with the Indians. The President of the United States every year would send out supplies to Pueblo, Co. to trade with the Indians. Sometimes there would be 25,000 Indians and upwards but for some reason supplies were not sent in 1822. It could have been because of the Mexican Revolution and expulsion of the Spanish or some other reason but that sent some of the Indians on a killing rampage which could have included the Beale Party. If they were actually in the area. Augusta Chouteau and Pierre Chouteau had been actively trading with the Indians out west every since they came to St. Louis in it's early years. I wish I could remember the creek where they were captured it was something like "Bear Camp Creek" or Grand Camp Creek it was on the northside of the Platte River just southwest of Denver not too far from Cherry Creek.

 

[franklin]

In looking at the Beale Papers in a lower critical form .

1. Only look at the letters from Beale as misguiding information as not to incriminate himself .
a. 250-300 miles North of Santa Fe would put him in US Territory, this statement as not to incriminate himself .
1a. Why give the location of the place the gold was from, if not a misdirect .
b. Time needed to mine the amount of gold from an area that he said he was in does not coincide with a mining operation, but that of a recovery attempt .
c. If Santa Fe was the city were they stayed why have a hunting party going 250-300 miles north for game ?

2. If we only look at the first person to verify the person Beale in the Papers, Mr Morriss . We can see that Jan 1820 seems to be the first date of an outside reference to Beale in the Papers .
a. The letters to Morriss ( two not in the box ) are misleading as to the true nature of the mission Beale was on .
b. The letters to Morriss in the box possibly are also misleading as to the purpose of the mission Beale was on .
c. Beale would not incriminate himself by writing the true nature of his mission in the letters not in cipher .
d. Beale had 8-10 weeks in the two time he was with Mr Morriss to give inside information to him we do not have in the Papers .

With all of your reasons for everything in the Job Print Pamphlet to be secret and cancelled it is a wonder you believe the story at all. But when you try to make a story match what you believe to have happened then that is what you would do-------------make excuses for what you have found and why it does not match the original story. 101 posters who claim they have deciphered C1 and C3 do this, with the only exception and that being myself. I solved it by letter substitution and letter frequency. So my decipherment has nothing to do with thoughts, prayers and wishes like so many others. If the Beale Story is true then I have deciphered them. I have a complete train of thought from where the treasure was kept and to where it was buried. I also have all 31 associates and their names including Robert Morris and Thomas Beale. Where is your proof. I forgot you can't tell or show anyone because you are the only person that believes he has the correct solution. Good Luck with that.

 

[TN_Guest1523]

With all of your reasons for everything in the Job Print Pamphlet to be secret and cancelled it is a wonder you believe the story at all. But when you try to make a story match what you believe to have happened then that is what you would do-------------make excuses for what you have found and why it does not match the original story. 101 posters who claim they have deciphered C1 and C3 do this, with the only exception and that being myself. I solved it by letter substitution and letter frequency. So my decipherment has nothing to do with thoughts, prayers and wishes like so many others. If the Beale Story is true then I have deciphered them. I have a complete train of thought from where the treasure was kept and to where it was buried. I also have all 31 associates and their names including Robert Morris and Thomas Beale. Where is your proof. I forgot you can't tell or show anyone because you are the only person that believes he has the correct solution. Good Luck with that.

Thank you for your support, all I am doing here is looking at the whole with what can be verified by Mr Morriss only . The Beale letters have not been verified by a second outside source as you have mentioned many times with others here too . If we only look at what has been verified by Morriss we can see that we have 3 ciphers and a story from Beale explaining them . But with no one to verify that the Beale story is in fact true we just can not add that part to the verified rest of what is told to us by Mr Morriss . I am not saying Beale's story is not true, but lacks verification by a second source at this time . So if your decoding is based on that story from Beale it is possible you or anyone is in error .

 

[franklin]

Including yourself

 

[releventchair]

Yes he was and so were several expeditions out west to trade with the Indians. The President of the United States every year would send out supplies to Pueblo, Co. to trade with the Indians. Sometimes there would be 25,000 Indians and upwards but for some reason supplies were not sent in 1822. It could have been because of the Mexican Revolution and expulsion of the Spanish or some other reason but that sent some of the Indians on a killing rampage which could have included the Beale Party. If they were actually in the area. Augusta Chouteau and Pierre Chouteau had been actively trading with the Indians out west every since they came to St. Louis in it's early years. I wish I could remember the creek where they were captured it was something like "Bear Camp Creek" or Grand Camp Creek it was on the northside of the Platte River just southwest of Denver not too far from Cherry Creek.

Scrambled memory has the "official" Santa Fe trail established by the government treaty with native permission around 1823(?).
About a year earlier a trader(Becknell (sp.?) had used the west ends route by kind of a first with a wagon on that section of route.
IF prior to 1822 government wagons were gifts/tribute rather than trade good stock...perhaps withholding 22's wagons was political to encourage future negotiation of the newer "discovered"western ends use?

 

[TN_Guest1523]

Including yourself

I really don't know how you got your decoding of the ciphers, and I do not wish to know either . But the ciphers can only tell you what they say if you have the key ! Its a no-brainier if you have the right document !

 

[bigscoop]

I really don't know how you got your decoding of the ciphers, and I do not wish to know either . But the ciphers can only tell you what they say if you have the key ! Its a no-brainier if you have the right document !

You do realize that many people have thought they had the right document, or in many cases, the right documents, yes? Remedies and solutions are now a dime a dozen due to everyone supposedly having the right documents, the correct equations and procedures, etc., etc., etc. These claims are starting to become routine events again even of late, what, something like four or five active claims of solve and remedy at present. In each of these cases the same general processes and procedures have been utilized in the manufacturing of these solutions and they are all still absent anything that can be directly connected to a Thomas J. Beale and/or the original narration. And we've not even heard anymore from most of the previous voices of solution and remedy who followed all of these same type of processes and procedures. This should tell folks quite a bit......

 

[TN_Guest1523]

You do realize that many people have thought they had the right document, or in many cases, the right documents, yes? Remedies and solutions are now a dime a dozen due to everyone supposedly having the right documents, the correct equations and procedures, etc., etc., etc. These claims are starting to become routine events again even of late, what, something like four or five active claims of solve and remedy at present. In each of these cases the same general processes and procedures have been utilized in the manufacturing of these solutions and they are all still absent anything that can be directly connected to a Thomas J. Beale and/or the original narration. And we've not even heard anymore from most of the previous voices of solution and remedy who followed all of these same type of processes and procedures. This should tell folks quite a bit......

Amazing, so I need to quit right now . Just because you said so right ? This should tell folks quite a bit......

 

[TN_Guest1523]

You do realize that many people have thought they had the right document, or in many cases, the right documents, yes? Remedies and solutions are now a dime a dozen due to everyone supposedly having the right documents, the correct equations and procedures, etc., etc., etc. These claims are starting to become routine events again even of late, what, something like four or five active claims of solve and remedy at present. In each of these cases the same general processes and procedures have been utilized in the manufacturing of these solutions and they are all still absent anything that can be directly connected to a Thomas J. Beale and/or the original narration. And we've not even heard anymore from most of the previous voices of solution and remedy who followed all of these same type of processes and procedures. This should tell folks quite a bit......

Yes, I know about the few that failed to get it right . But why do you care what I do, remember I am not writing a book here about the Beale Papers I'm just the guy that decoded them . Whats it too ya Bro ?

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

I recommend several stop the bickering or find you can't log in....

 

[ECS]

I think I said if the Beale Party actually did exist and went to Sante Fe they could have been the Benjamin Cooper party. When TJB left St. Louis in mid-May 1822, he and his party would have been about at the location where Jacob Fowler in tow with James Pursley now released after 17 years of imprisonment by the Spanish. This was around the 5th of July on the plains of Kansas. Yes I said it could have been the Beale Party but there is no documented proof as no proof whatsoever has ever been found. I used John Bell's daily journal to find where they camped and how many days it took them to travel. You can also use his return trip down the Red River for campsites. Nothing has been nailed down. But, if one forgets all history, all stories that could relate and concentrate only on the 23 page Job Print Pamphlet. Work on the author's story and the author's deciphering C2, you will find that the author made the entire story up.

By the way the un-named party would have been the De Muin and Chateou Party out of St. Louis they were captured SW of Denver I believe it was Great Camp Creek or something like that. They were eventually released but their stores were kept by the Spanish.

As Franklin noted, many parties of adventurers similar to what was depicted in Ward's 1885 Beale Papers, but NO Beale Party has ever been or will be confirmed, because this is a dime novel of fiction that was given a different life by the Hart Papers, Pauline Innis, and all those treasure magazine articles and authored books.
With all that, no ciphers have been solves and no no Beale treasure vault has ever been found.

 

[Cryptography]

As Franklin noted, many parties of adventurers similar to what was depicted in Ward's 1885 Beale Papers, but NO Beale Party has ever been or will be confirmed, because this is a dime novel of fiction that was given a different life by the Hart Papers, Pauline Innis, and all those treasure magazine articles and authored books.
With all that, no ciphers have been solves and no no Beale treasure vault has ever been found.

You keep saying the same line all the time! Once was enough! Sometimers??

 

[tad10]

As Franklin noted, many parties of adventurers similar to what was depicted in Ward's 1885 Beale Papers, but NO Beale Party has ever been or will be confirmed, because this is a dime novel of fiction that was given a different life by the Hart Papers, Pauline Innis, and all those treasure magazine articles and authored books.
With all that, no ciphers have been solves and no no Beale treasure vault has ever been found.

The ciphers have been solved, possibly multiple times. If you've solved the ciphers you would not talk about it. Quite possible that the vault was dug up years ago.

 

[ECS]

It is quite possible that the perilous adventure, meeting with Morriss and the letters, staying at Buford's Tavern, the vault, never happened as the lack of evidence indicates, but only the creation of the "unknown author".
As with other codebreakers who are mentioned on this thread, Carl Hammer of Sperry Rand concluded that C1 & C3 " have statistical characteristics that are not actually encryptions of an English plaintext, and are not words in English".

 

[tad10]

It is quite possible that the perilous adventure, meeting with Morriss and the letters, staying at Buford's Tavern, the vault, never happened as the lack of evidence indicates, but only the creation of the "unknown author".
As with other codebreakers who are mentioned on this thread, Carl Hammer of Sperry Rand concluded that C1 & C3 " have statistical characteristics that are not actually encryptions of an English plaintext, and are not words in English".

Carl would be wrong but you'll have to wait for my book. No spoilers.