Civil War Payroll gold may have been found in Elk County PA

[etex]

T-23 and counting

 

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[FinderKeeper]

Can you post the documentation that this expert gave you after he identified this bullett as Civil War.

In a previous thread you said you took it to Grice Gun Shop and the guy working the counter(who's name you don't remember) said it was Civil War.

Edit coming up with exact link as soon as I find it.....

http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/t...-chamber-located-new-ross-nova-scotia-64.html

It is in this mess of posts.......the expert who identified this as a Civil War artifact was Gil from Grice Gun shop.

Also if anyone does click on that link take notice how many times FK said he was done answering questions there also.....a news conference usually involves a lot of questions.I really have trouble trying to envision how this news conference on CNN FK has talked about is going to go down.

I did post it at #924 but I can do it again. Lets get the story straight, George Gill worked at Hublers Gun Shop not Grices Gun Shop. I took the shell to Hublers gun shop and George and his partner looked at it and said it was close to civil war period. Later he went to the DCNR office in Emporium ,Pa, and did this report on it again because he wanted to be sure of the date. I took it to Grices Gun Shop in Clearfield and they were busy but they had the head person look at it and he said it looked to be from the civil war period ( I did not get his name )but they said he was the best at civil war artifacts. Now the shell may not be from the 1860's but there is no way its from WW1 or newer. This is what I been trying to tell you. This proves if the museum got this shell date wrong what about the rest of what I sent them. Lock Haven University looked at all the bones, Ms Dixon was from Penn State Uni. and was the best at bones. She said both ends were gone and it was hard to be sure BUT she was thinking more HUMAN and said I need to do a DNA test on it . The St Mary's Corner Office at the Lynch Radkowski Funeral Home said it looked human so he called the State Police and they said they did not have any people missing in that area so they didn't want to spend the money on it unless something came up. Yet the museum said it was deer bone. I will have everything tested again if I get my hands on the artifacts, to see if they did this to hold me back from searching the area.

 

[NewAge]

I did post it at #924 but I can do it again. Lets get the story straight, George Gill worked at Hublers Gun Shop not Grices Gun Shop. Itook the shell to the gun shop and George and his partner looked at it and said it was close to civil war period. Later he went to the DCNR office in Emporium ,Pa, and did this report on it again because he wanted to be sure of the date. I took it to Grices Gun Shop in Clearfield and they were busy but they had the head person look at it and he said it looked to be from the civil war period ( I did not get his name )but they said he was the best at civil war artifacts. Now the shell may not be from the 1860's but there is no way its from WW1 or newer. This is what I been trying to tell you. This proves if the museum got this shell date wrong what about the rest of what I sent them. Lock Haven University looked at all the bones, Ms Dixon was from Penn State Uni. and was the best at bones. She said both ends were gone and it was hard to be sure BUT she was thinking more HUMAN and said I need to do a DNA test on it . The St Mary's Corner Office at the Lynch Radkowski Funeral Home said it looked human so he called the State Police and they said they did not have any people missing in that area so they didn't want to spend the money on it unless something came up. Yet the museum said it was deer bone. I will have everything tested again if I get my hands on the artifacts, to see if they did this to hold me back from searching the area.View attachment 1582045

It is not WW1 because a guy who works the gun counters said so ......and drew a sketch.
The bone is human even thought the museum says it is not because you took it to a funeral home/coroner.

We went thru Gil's qualifications a while ago so I will skip that this time.

Do you have any idea what qualifications you need to become a coroner in PA.
https://www.cdc.gov/phlp/publications/coroner/pennsylvania.html
All you have to do is pass a test after you get elected.

I do not know what kind of experience or qualifications the one you talked to had but since you used funeral home and coroner in same sentence I will guess someone working in the funeral home was the coroner.I will also fancy a guess if they actually called the police over a bone fragment they couldn't positively ID and tied to a treasure hunting story.They had very little experience.

You should have taken it to the medical examiner......I think they have to be a doctor.And would be considered a little more of an expert on human bones.

To be honest here you could have found just as qualified experts asking random people off the street to identify your shell and bone.This is not how the big boys get artifacts dated or identified.

I do not know Ms.Dixon from PSU .....what dept did she work in.Maybe we can find at least one person who was somewhat qualified to identify or date those items.But she didn't ID it anyhow and told you to get it tested.

I don't know why I take time to point out these problems anyhow........it is a Civil War bullet and a human bone and you had already decided that before you had them completely out of the ground.I will say if it was a human bone that explains the FBI dig and makes me feel better about our tax dollars being spent on that site.

 

[FinderKeeper]

It is not WW1 because a guy who works the gun counters said so ......and drew a sketch.
The bone is human even thought the museum says it is not because you took it to a funeral home/coroner.

We went thru Gil's qualifications a while ago so I will skip that this time.

Do you have any idea what qualifications you need to become a coroner in PA.
https://www.cdc.gov/phlp/publications/coroner/pennsylvania.html
All you have to do is pass a test after you get elected.

I do not know what kind of experience or qualifications the one you talked to had but since you used funeral home and coroner in same sentence I will guess someone working in the funeral home was the coroner.I will also fancy a guess if they actually called the police over a bone fragment they couldn't positively ID and tied to a treasure hunting story.They had very little experience.

You should have taken it to the medical examiner......I think they have to be a doctor.And would be considered a little more of an expert on human bones.

To be honest here you could have found just as qualified experts asking random people off the street to identify your shell and bone.This is not how the big boys get artifacts dated or identified.

I do not know Ms.Dixon from PSU .....what dept did she work in.Maybe we can find at least one person who was somewhat qualified to identify or date those items.But she didn't ID it anyhow and told you to get it tested.

I don't know why I take time to point out these problems anyhow........it is a Civil War bullet and a human bone and you had already decided that before you had them completely out of the ground.I will say if it was a human bone that explains the FBI dig and makes me feel better about our tax dollars being spent on that site.

This report is just a small part of what we went through over the years before we had major gold readings. We found rooms and walls inside the cave just were our map said they would be. Many burn marks on the celling. We found a lot of gray blue clay going back in the cave wall towards the area we later got major iron, gold, silver readings. We knew we had some kind of pig iron in that area but could not get to it because of the danger of the celling falling in. It took 5 yrs to go 40' back in the cave. Why 5yrs , we could not dig but when we open a wall and removed the stones water started running. It did not take long to figure out this would be a legal slow way for it to open its self. WE were allowed to drill holes to place our 8' copper rods into the back wall to get GPL readings. AS the water removed the back wall we got closer to the gray blue clay. We spent 2yrs on top of the cave drilling holes . Drill hole map attached in #911 this is what we showed the FBI to get them on site with some video of us working with the GPL. This is about all I can say at this point. Below is more drill records.

 

[etex]

T-22 and counting

 

[pepperj]

Having read this long winded defence on why things are/aren't there a memory pops up in my mind of a salesman/dealer of detection equipment 30yrs ago.

This man believed that his long ranged detection device had in fact detected a buried treasure, and this was located in the middle of the parking lot in front of the busiest mall in Toronto.
He gave every plausible reason known to treasure hunting, graphs, readings, even a very entertaining story of a possible hoard of riches that was to have been buried by a 6th removed family to the riches.
Basically the thread was really thin to the point where one would question the validity of the whole legend.
After listening to him go on every morning for months about this, and throwing sensible questions out he would become more defensive so I would just say that was interesting.
I started to question(to myself) his sanity or his concept of reality in his believing this said treasure was there.
It was his passion driven belief-his money spent on frivolous reports, legal documents, and time.
Still to this day the treasure still rests buried beneath in a parking lot of a shopping mall and a man never came to rest with this belief.

 

[Worm-Slicer]

This question I am about to ask should probably be another thread, but has any treasure legend tale (other than factually proven ones like sunken ships) ever been found? Most (Beale treasure, Oak Island, this one lol) I don't believe and is all based on tales that can never be proven. I would, however, love to read about any that have actually been found and see what they located. I'll be willing to bet that none have ever been found that don't have some kind of factual basis. Oh, just wanted to add, I forgot to mention that the Goonies treasure doesn't count.

 

[FinderKeeper]

Having read this long winded defence on why things are/aren't there a memory pops up in my mind of a salesman/dealer of detection equipment 30yrs ago.

This man believed that his long ranged detection device had in fact detected a buried treasure, and this was located in the middle of the parking lot in front of the busiest mall in Toronto.
He gave every plausible reason known to treasure hunting, graphs, readings, even a very entertaining story of a possible hoard of riches that was to have been buried by a 6th removed family to the riches.
Basically the thread was really thin to the point where one would question the validity of the whole legend.
After listening to him go on every morning for months about this, and throwing sensible questions out he would become more defensive so I would just say that was interesting.
I started to question(to myself) his sanity or his concept of reality in his believing this said treasure was there.
It was his passion driven belief-his money spent on frivolous reports, legal documents, and time.
Still to this day the treasure still rests buried beneath in a parking lot of a shopping mall and a man never came to rest with this belief.

That was 30yrs ago and they have a lot better equipment today that will prove whats down under. Someone should try again. Thank You

 

[releventchair]

View attachment 1581819View attachment 1581821View attachment 1581823 There are two bullets ( one piece of bullet ) in photo. It looks like it hit a big stone as the rest of them did. The bullets are dated from the civil war , its the shell and other things we have a problem with . NOT WW1 . There was no trail or road in this site back then. Snooks Trail was 150' below this site.

I have not squinted at your site.
The artifacts hint of riverine/ delta areas .

The trap ( a double longspring) is datable ,as far as when originally introduced for sale. One I recovered( a different brand/ manufacturer than yours) from a 3 foot depth crumbled except for jaws. A 1920' s or 40' s era release date and could have been " set" where recovered anytime after. The three foot of sediment from spring floods over the years translated to time would give a estimated time of placement.

Bone needs a d.n.a. test to confirm specie - but a question arises first. Why is it split lengthwise?
A cervid femur and lower leg bone( or human)is tough. To fracture lengthwise is a deliberate task. Yet ,worth it for marrow. Also the bone could be crafted for multiple purposes after either abrading ,or softening in boiling water. Splitting lengthwise was done to craft with them. Knock knuckles off before splitting to increase efficiency/ accuracy. ( Most old bone shows at least hints of knuckles).
Lacking rodent knaw marks causing it's shape , an early era human is suggested.

IF the site is riverine ,stuff could have been moved along it and settled in a variety of ways. If a gully or ravine it could have been a dump site.
And one time wagon bed dumps are / were not rare. Just dump where folks don't ride their horses seemed a theme on some sites I dug.
A waterway attracts deer,and humans and their relics. As does it's edges.

When you mention a lack of egress ingress by road , I wonder again about a waterway. A mule trail is not impossible ,unless terrain prohibits such. And mules can climb and descend grades to a point.

What depth / layers relics were in matters more to you than I. But you might have varied era's reflected. Without knowing if flooding or earth slides or later fills were added ,what relics were scrambled and how ,vs if they were layered undisturbed since placement factors.

 

[releventchair]

Hitting gold, Found, was I on site If you ask a good question I will answer it.

Lets get back to your question , or I will stop answering them. Did you see #8 and what it said and do you agree with it. WW1 or newer ( the shell ) do you think its newer. I posted what Hublers Gun shop reported and they say its not close to WW1. So who is telling the truth. ​

Fitting relics to a sites context ,or vice versa are very different. And both can result in futility if done wrong.

You brought the sites potential to our attention.
Spent brass is scattered worldwide.
How it ties to what we want to see ....is thin.

What , if anything was recently there in gold value remains to be seen ,but brass it is not!

 

[FinderKeeper]

Fitting relics to a sites context ,or vice versa are very different. And both can result in futility if done wrong.

You brought the sites potential to our attention.
Spent brass is scattered worldwide.
How it ties to what we want to see ....is thin.

What , if anything was recently there in gold value remains to be seen ,but brass it is not!

Hi Thanks for the post, Ya we remove all metal artifacts from our sites and we had a lot of them from this site. We have 1 or 2 skeleton's still inside this cave and many bones we turned over to DCNR. I found stone tools inside the cave and again turned them over but the museum said they were junk and threw them away. So I stopped giving them JUNK and now I will have it checked out first then give it to them. I know humans lived or stayed in this cave for many years but the state will do nothing about it. I could not talk about some things because I did not want other hunters on site digging. Now I can talk about some things that happen before March 12th. and soon I will tell it all. What we found fits with the story, 1 medicine bottle and Castleton was sick. 1 whiskey bottle and Conners was a drunk, 5 lead bullets from the civil war period found at the spot were all the bottles we found broken. Bones that when dropped shattered into pieces. I fruit jar and many tin cans. A lot of old metal and a lot of Blue Gray Clay that was worth more than gold to the people down in south America . Not sure if this was a mine for clay or a just a place to stay over night. The bones in this picture were 10" long but one fell and shattered. The bone you talked about is 6" long . Not sure if DCNR will throw out everything they are holding when this is over or if they will let someone check it out. I want it all back.​

 

[Honest Samuel]

Gold or No Gold.

 

[releventchair]

Hi Thanks for the post, Ya we remove all metal artifacts from our sites and we had a lot of them from this site. We have 1 or 2 skeleton's still inside this cave and many bones we turned over to DCNR. I found stone tools inside the cave and again turned them over but the museum said they were junk and threw them away. So I stopped giving them JUNK and now I will have it checked out first then give it to them. I know humans lived or stayed in this cave for many years but the state will do nothing about it. I could not talk about some things because I did not want other hunters on site digging. Now I can talk about some things that happen before March 12th. and soon I will tell it all. What we found fits with the story, 1 medicine bottle and Castleton was sick. 1 whiskey bottle and Conners was a drunk, 5 lead bullets from the civil war period found at the spot were all the bottles we found broken. Bones that when dropped shattered into pieces. I fruit jar and many tin cans. A lot of old metal and a lot of Blue Gray Clay that was worth more than gold to the people down in south America . Not sure if this was a mine for clay or a just a place to stay over night. The bones in this picture were 10" long but one fell and shattered. The bone you talked about is 6" long . Not sure if DCNR will throw out everything they are holding when this is over or if they will let someone check it out. I want it all back.View attachment 1582308​

Ring and chain pieces for/with the trap in the picture too.

Your glass and such might have been near top of floor detritus? Would make sense to be above previous occupation layer(s).

 

[FinderKeeper]

Ring and chain pieces for/with the trap in the picture too.

Your glass and such might have been near top of floor detritus? Would make sense to be above previous occupation layer(s).

The two rings in with the trap picture have what we think is BATE for the trap. Not sure what else it could be. They would need a way to attach the bate to the trap. It looks like we have enough to make 2 traps, Not Sure. It would be good if a member here could help date this trap, it was found with the clear bottle in the camp fire pit 6" down under. The pit was covered with sand and the edges of the bottle are sharp so it was easy to put it back together. So the bottle was not in heat and was broken after the fire was out , then covered with sand. HELP US DATE this trap. Thank You

 

[releventchair]

View attachment 1582357View attachment 1582358
The two rings in with the trap picture have what we think is BATE for the trap. Not sure what else it could be. They would need a way to attach the bate to the trap. It looks like we have enough to make 2 traps, Not Sure. It would be good if a member here could help date this trap, it was found with the clear bottle in the camp fire pit 6" down under. The pit was covered with sand and the edges of the bottle are sharp so it was easy to put it back together. So the bottle was not in heat and was broken after the fire was out , then covered with sand. HELP US DATE this trap. Thank You

The ring with the blob of rust ,is where the wire was turned on itself by the manufacturer to secure it . Ring was through end of chain to secure it,or attach to a drag. ( Not sure what other ring was.) The other end of chain was secured to trap " frame".
Bait does not go on trap. Trap is placed where foot ( not nose) would be placed while investigating a bait or scent or lure. Think the threshold of your home ,and where your feet are placed in relation when you reach for the door handle. With the door handle the bait ( if used) with your focus on it ,not the welcome mat.

Your traps " pan" ,the round piece that is your target for a foot to depress , needs a closer look. It is round which eliminates squarish ones that have been used ( though traps can be modified). If it has a V notch in it's center we know it is likely a Victor.
In comparing the frame to others ,a better idea might arise.
I'm not good using photo's to see clearly ,compared to at hand objects.
Wild guess has the trap in the 1900' s era. Maybe(?) 1950 +- a couple decades. But environment and acidity of site ,moisture, all factor.

 

[1320]

As promised, attached is the FBI’s reply to my request. Best I can tell, they were never there, like it never even happened! Lol. Damn cover up folks!!

 

[pepperj]

That was 30yrs ago and they have a lot better equipment today that will prove whats down under. Someone should try again. Thank You

What is under the Parking lot is the bloody subway tunnel. The equipment today doesn't matter as this just a fantasy in an old man's mind.

 

[releventchair]

A couple former Oneida employees started Triumph trap company in 1912.
Those pre Victor Oneida and Triumph pans did not have the V cut out in the pan center.(?) If a makers mark is on a trap ,it is usually stamped on the pan.

Oneida has a very interesting history ,as does trap manufacturing on the East coast/Pa. and other areas. Onieda having a religious harmonious community that produced several million traps . Newhouse was a blacksmith of theirs and the traps were named after him until Victor became the name in 1886.
There should be collectors near you to give a better idea of what size ,style ,and manufacturer. The jaws will need a closer look ,and chain type determined at that point too. Some are jack chain ,yours might not be from what little is left to view.

 

[NewAge]

The state called in the FBI

Post #939

 

[NewAge]

this is what we showed the FBI to get them on site

Post # 944

It took exactly 5 posts in this thread for it to change from the State brought in the FBI to FK got them.

Now all we need is some type of word salad combined with some smoke and mirrors to explain this discrepency.