Buckle Button And Axe

[artyfacts]

Spent five hours on a new site today with a large cellar hole, on a hill, in the woods, along the shoreline. I think the site was worked by someone with an older machine. All of iron was left behind, big stuff and small between 8 and 15 inches deep. The non ferrous items were found next to the iron. When I walked up to the site the first thing I dug was a broken axe head and found the button in the same hole I thought the place was going to be loaded. I was wrong it was already picked. I'm still happy with the iron and the few other items I found. The buckle was found on the top of the log splitter in the same hole. The buzzer is the third I have dug in two different sites in the last month. The suspender buckle still has some gilt left on it and its a little on the fancy side. The brass item is two inches long. I know it was nailed to the tip of something. Any Ideas? The little iron spike could it be to a spear or is it a awl? The full axe was sweet, 7 1/2 inches long. Its going to clean up nice, I like finding axes. Lantern parts, scythe, draw knife and -----the ticks are out. Arty

 

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[{Sentinel}]

Nice Finds Arty. I agree, there's probably some nice goodies hiding in that site!

 

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[artyfacts]

Not at all. Your plates were found with relics from what era. Fieldslayers plates came from a revolutionary site, WHAT!!! The plate I found was mixed in with relics from two hundred years of clutter, any old guess will do. I know it was attached to leather, canvas or cloth. A leather lock flap with a plate the only one viewed. The four hooked version described by Marvins trunks was lead backed. The leather lock flaps came in around 1840. Were they six hooked, maybe four, what size were they, how thick, American made? More to come on this matter. The plates have gone from being attached through the wood of a trunk to a leather lock flap on a trunk. Different hook systems, different size plates, sand casting being around for how long, clipped corner plates on trunks, on leather lock covers, on sword sashes, on leather cross belts, on cartridge boxes, as buckles and maybe the occasional lunch box. Speculation is all that's left along with a little common sense. After many responses and long conversations with some of the biggest restorers about these plates being associated with a trunk from the top trunk restorers in New England a big 0, even on the lock flaps. Where would be the best place to find one of these rare clipped corner plates attached to a trunk? Not a one anywhere in the world, not even a picture. Where did the trunk plate theory start? Does this mean that every clipped corner plate of every size and hook arrangement is associated with a trunk? I think any one making a statement like that should get a time out. Arty

You are probably going to be told its a trunk plate, hold all bets, more to come... Arty

But are you saying it's a Confederate plate found on Canada's east coast? Plus likeyou said it's not a match anyway.

I wish they were plates. We found two on the same site.

 

[artyfacts]

Yes I will be back after the first freeze looking for an oldie.

Nice Finds Arty. I agree, there's probably some nice goodies hiding in that site!

 

[artyfacts]

Wow Urmgolf, you pulled that reply off before I had a chance to reply. What was viewed by Mr. Freede the trunk maker is a leather lock flap with a clipped corner plate as a stiffener I believe, he stated, "we have seen plates like these on trunks". I guess he has seen more then one. I did not respond to what Mr Freede has viewed. But I probably will...

 

[umrgolf]

Wow Urmgolf, you pulled that off before I had a chance to reply. What was viewed by Mr. Freede the trunk maker is a leather lock flap with a clipped corner plate as a stiffener I believe, he stated, "we have seen plates like these on trunks". I guess he has seen more then one. I did not respond to what Mr Freede has viewed. But I probably will...

After reading your reply to Iron Patch, I've decided that I've said enough in this conversation since it seems you won't be swayed. I hope it gets solved.

 

[artyfacts]

No I have not been swayed to the dark side as yet. (The meaning of dark side.) One who cannot have a open mind to new possibilities, the ability not to reason and use common sense, to not investigate thoroughly before inserting foot in mouth, not willing to speculate and add to the old ways of thinking. No gum stuck to my shoes. Hopefully with the help of other t-neters willing to put some time in a answer or answers will be forth coming. Thanks for the positive feedback its always welcome...

After reading your reply to Iron Patch, I've decided that I've said enough in this conversation since it seems you won't be swayed. I hope it gets solved.

Steve, that is a beauty of a plate you found and still has one hook attachement. What other artifacts did you find with your plate? Thanks for the added possibilities and places this type of plate has visited it makes for great research and another angle into discovering timelines and uses. Looking forward to the hunt. Arty

Well here is mine. I dug it on the island of Antigua many years ago. When I found it my friends and I all thought it was a cross belt plate. I sent pictures of mine to Mark Parker of Western & Eastern Treasures magazine which he forwarded to George Juno, who identified it as an 18th century trunk plate. While doing an internet search looking for examples of 18th century trunks with these plates attached, I ran across Steve Freede of The Trunk Shoppe, who makes authentic reproductions of 18th century trunks. Mr Freede has studied many examples of 18th century trunks. I explained that most relic hunters want to believe they have a cross belt plate, while most "authorities" say they are trunk plates. Here is his response......

 

[CRUSADER]

No I have not been swayed to the dark side as yet. (The meaning of dark side.) One who cannot have a open mind to new possibilities, the ability not to reason and use common sense, to not investigate thoroughly before inserting foot in mouth, not willing to speculate and add to the old ways of thinking. No gum stuck to my shoes. Hopefully with the help of other t-neters willing to put some time in a answer or answers will be forth coming. Thanks for the positive feedback its always welcome...

After reading your reply to Iron Patch, I've decided that I've said enough in this conversation since it seems you won't be swayed. I hope it gets solved.

Steve, that is a beauty of a plate you found and still has one hook attachement. What other artifacts did you find with your plate? Thanks for the added possibilities and places this type of plate has visited it makes for great research and another angle into discovering timelines and uses. Looking forward to the hunt. Arty

Well here is mine. I dug it on the island of Antigua many years ago. When I found it my friends and I all thought it was a cross belt plate. I sent pictures of mine to Mark Parker of Western & Eastern Treasures magazine which he forwarded to George Juno, who identified it as an 18th century trunk plate. While doing an internet search looking for examples of 18th century trunks with these plates attached, I ran across Steve Freede of The Trunk Shoppe, who makes authentic reproductions of 18th century trunks. Mr Freede has studied many examples of 18th century trunks. I explained that most relic hunters want to believe they have a cross belt plate, while most "authorities" say they are trunk plates. Here is his response......

Interesting, mine wasn't positive because my opinion didn't match yours, who has the closed mind I'm lost, lets start again

PS. If I'm wrong, I don't care...

 

[Iron Patch]

I'd like to add I have a very nice 6 attachment one of these for sale for $450 if anyone is interested.

 

[Steve in PA]

No I have not been swayed to the dark side as yet. (The meaning of dark side.) One who cannot have a open mind to new possibilities, the ability not to reason and use common sense, to not investigate thoroughly before inserting foot in mouth, not willing to speculate and add to the old ways of thinking. No gum stuck to my shoes. Hopefully with the help of other t-neters willing to put some time in a answer or answers will be forth coming. Thanks for the positive feedback its always welcome...

After reading your reply to Iron Patch, I've decided that I've said enough in this conversation since it seems you won't be swayed. I hope it gets solved.

Steve, that is a beauty of a plate you found and still has one hook attachement. What other artifacts did you find with your plate? Thanks for the added possibilities and places this type of plate has visited it makes for great research and another angle into discovering timelines and uses. Looking forward to the hunt. Arty

Well here is mine. I dug it on the island of Antigua many years ago. When I found it my friends and I all thought it was a cross belt plate. I sent pictures of mine to Mark Parker of Western & Eastern Treasures magazine which he forwarded to George Juno, who identified it as an 18th century trunk plate. While doing an internet search looking for examples of 18th century trunks with these plates attached, I ran across Steve Freede of The Trunk Shoppe, who makes authentic reproductions of 18th century trunks. Mr Freede has studied many examples of 18th century trunks. I explained that most relic hunters want to believe they have a cross belt plate, while most "authorities" say they are trunk plates. Here is his response......

Here is another nice artifact I found at the site where the plate was found. This rosette is about 1.75 inches in diameter. The site was a little town that was destroyed by a hurricane. Some of the artifacts went back to the 1600s, based on the buckle types we found. However, it was almost entirely civilian artifacts from this spot.

 

[artyfacts]

I'd like to add I have a very nice 6 attachment one of these for sale for $450 if anyone is interested.

I think that comes to seventy five dollars a attachment. I think your asking way to much without the hooks. Good luck to you on your selling venture.

 

[artyfacts]

Thanks Steve,

Beautiful place to detect along with some really nice finds. Would you say early or late 1600's to ?

Here is another nice artifact I found at the site where the plate was found. This rosette is about 1.75 inches in diameter. The site was a little town that was destroyed by a hurricane. Some of the artifacts went back to the 1600s, based on the buckle types we found. However, it was almost entirely civilian artifacts from this spot.

 

[artyfacts]

Interesting, mine wasn't positive because my opinion didn't match yours, who has the closed mind I'm lost, lets start again

PS. If I'm wrong, I don't care...

Any feedback is positive, open mind...

 

[Steve in PA]

Thanks Steve,

Beautiful place to detect along with some really nice finds. Would you say early or late 1600's to ?

Here is another nice artifact I found at the site where the plate was found. This rosette is about 1.75 inches in diameter. The site was a little town that was destroyed by a hurricane. Some of the artifacts went back to the 1600s, based on the buckle types we found. However, it was almost entirely civilian artifacts from this spot.

I would say late 1600's to early 1800's.

 

[Iron Patch]

Thanks Steve,

Beautiful place to detect along with some really nice finds. Would you say early or late 1600's to ?

Here is another nice artifact I found at the site where the plate was found. This rosette is about 1.75 inches in diameter. The site was a little town that was destroyed by a hurricane. Some of the artifacts went back to the 1600s, based on the buckle types we found. However, it was almost entirely civilian artifacts from this spot.

I would say late 1600's to early 1800's.

They are quite common in the UK. I've always thought they are early but don't know that for sure.

 

[Steve in PA]

Thanks Steve,

Beautiful place to detect along with some really nice finds. Would you say early or late 1600's to ?

Here is another nice artifact I found at the site where the plate was found. This rosette is about 1.75 inches in diameter. The site was a little town that was destroyed by a hurricane. Some of the artifacts went back to the 1600s, based on the buckle types we found. However, it was almost entirely civilian artifacts from this spot.

I would say late 1600's to early 1800's.

They are quite common in the UK. I've always thought they are early but don't know that for sure.

Are you talking about the rosette? It heavy and crude, a neat artifact, but I am unsure as to dating. If I were to guess, I would say first half of the 18th century. I am guessing the site itself dated to the late 1600's based on some of the early buckle styles we found, and was occupied maybe as late as 1850.

 

[Iron Patch]

Thanks Steve,

Beautiful place to detect along with some really nice finds. Would you say early or late 1600's to ?

Here is another nice artifact I found at the site where the plate was found. This rosette is about 1.75 inches in diameter. The site was a little town that was destroyed by a hurricane. Some of the artifacts went back to the 1600s, based on the buckle types we found. However, it was almost entirely civilian artifacts from this spot.

I would say late 1600's to early 1800's.

They are quite common in the UK. I've always thought they are early but don't know that for sure.

Are you talking about the rosette? It heavy and crude, a neat artifact, but I am unsure as to dating. If I were to guess, I would say first half of the 18th century. I am guessing the site itself dated to the late 1600's based on some of the early buckle styles we found, and was occupied maybe as late as 1850.

yes the rosette and the early side of the 1700s is also my thinking.

 

[fieldslayer]

Agreed gentlemen. Super find Steve ! As cool as anything I've dug off a bridal in my 35 years of colonial hunting! This closely resembles the popular royal English Tudor Rose motif often seen on various early British buttons, makers touchmarks, artifacts and such. The true royal Tudor rose emblem has the overlapping sets of 5 squared off petals > (to see this, simply look at the reverse of the "Rosa Americana" coinage pictured in the red book.) It became a very popular decorative design that lasted quite some time. I have seen many different decorative stylized versions ; sometimes with 6 petal sets , such as yours. ....as Iron Patch noted , fairly often found in England where it began. You guys already seem pretty well read , so forgive me if you already knew all this. Insomnia tonight..........

 

[CRUSADER]

No I have not been swayed to the dark side as yet. (The meaning of dark side.) One who cannot have a open mind to new possibilities, the ability not to reason and use common sense, to not investigate thoroughly before inserting foot in mouth, not willing to speculate and add to the old ways of thinking. No gum stuck to my shoes. Hopefully with the help of other t-neters willing to put some time in a answer or answers will be forth coming. Thanks for the positive feedback its always welcome...

After reading your reply to Iron Patch, I've decided that I've said enough in this conversation since it seems you won't be swayed. I hope it gets solved.

Steve, that is a beauty of a plate you found and still has one hook attachement. What other artifacts did you find with your plate? Thanks for the added possibilities and places this type of plate has visited it makes for great research and another angle into discovering timelines and uses. Looking forward to the hunt. Arty

Well here is mine. I dug it on the island of Antigua many years ago. When I found it my friends and I all thought it was a cross belt plate. I sent pictures of mine to Mark Parker of Western & Eastern Treasures magazine which he forwarded to George Juno, who identified it as an 18th century trunk plate. While doing an internet search looking for examples of 18th century trunks with these plates attached, I ran across Steve Freede of The Trunk Shoppe, who makes authentic reproductions of 18th century trunks. Mr Freede has studied many examples of 18th century trunks. I explained that most relic hunters want to believe they have a cross belt plate, while most "authorities" say they are trunk plates. Here is his response......

Here is another nice artifact I found at the site where the plate was found. This rosette is about 1.75 inches in diameter. The site was a little town that was destroyed by a hurricane. Some of the artifacts went back to the 1600s, based on the buckle types we found. However, it was almost entirely civilian artifacts from this spot.

http://www.ukdfd.co.uk/ukdfddata/showrecords.php?product=3368&cat=all
Not a perfect match but these leather mounts, went on belts & horses are 17th C. (I find quite a lot of that type & hundreds of other designs)

 

[Steve in PA]

http://www.ukdfd.co.uk/ukdfddata/showrecords.php?product=3368&cat=all
Not a perfect match but these leather mounts, went on belts & horses are 17th C. (I find quite a lot of that type & hundreds of other designs)
[/quote]

Thanks Cru, the English certainly were present on Antigua by the mid 17th century, and the first sugar cane plantations were in existance there by the 1670's. The rosette is obviously English and I'm sure the clipped corner plate is too.

 

[Iron Patch]

http://www.ukdfd.co.uk/ukdfddata/showrecords.php?product=3368&cat=all
Not a perfect match but these leather mounts, went on belts & horses are 17th C. (I find quite a lot of that type & hundreds of other designs)

The rosette is obviously English and I'm sure the clipped corner plate is too.
[/quote]

You mean the plate is English Confederate right?