Real de Tayopa said:
Good evening Gentlemen: Try Yaqui, the same word can be utilized in many different configurations and depending upon it's accompanying and inflective / tonal qualities gave 180 degree meanings. They say you have to be born a Yaqui to actually understand it. Quien sabe.
Our Yankee language has a 'somewhat' similar situation such as ---
OH, OH? oh, OH! or Yes! Yes? yes, Yes.
OH, is that correct?
oh, that is correct.
OH! and on.
So unfortunately we cannot know precisely what the originator had in mind when he first put it down on paper. We can only second guess later by the way things progressed, following his written statement.
As for Jesuits being involved in mining sigh.
Why was the resident Jesuit at Yecora so agitated upon seeing the Tayopa logo on my truck
What was the lone Jesuit doing climbing around the Tayopa area where he eventually fell to his death? There was only one Indian Family living within 20 miles at that time? The cliff where he fell to his death, is still known as
"El Cero de la Cura"
Why were the three young Jesuits looking for the Gold mine in that iron rich area near Chinapas, Chih.?
I can go on for quite a bit, but the above are sufficient to show my point.
As ORO has stated, perhaps it was illegal for an individual to possess riches, but otherwise anything was accepted to further the Order, even to furnishing some Churches lavishly under the thought of showing greater adoration and futher impressing the Indians more positively and so aquirng more converts..
Mineral wealth was almost to be considered as a gift from the Above, perhaps even as an order to utilize it. The Indians in the area of Tayopa were ordered to never show any minerals to anyone else but a Jesuit, that minerals were from the Above, and only the Jesuits were supposed to touch them .
Don Jose de La Mancha
Dear Real de Tayopa;
OK, my friend, I'll bite. First, nobody and I mean this sincerely, NOBODY really knows what the Yaqui language comprises as so much of the language has been lost or heavily modified by Spanish throughout the preceeding centuries. What little that is known about the Yaqui language when the colonists arrived was recorded by the Jesuits, who were the only ones who showed even a slight interest in the preservation and study of indigenous dialects. That they recorded, studied and even attempterd to communicate in the native dialects speaks much of their intellect and strategies.
Next, how did you know for a fact that the person was a card-carrying Jesuit? (Just a figure of speech, as Catholics don't carry membership cards) Did he announce himself to you as a Jesuit? How did you even know for a fact that he was a Roman Catholic priest? Many Protestant ministers affect the same dress habits as our Roman Catholic clergy, and also, as a point of fact, the Society of Jesus has never prescribed a particular habit for the Order. As a point of fact, the Roman Catholic Church does not prescribe any particular form of dress for an of it's clergy, including both it's Ordered members and secular ones. Therefore, how did you know that the person was a Jesuit?
In regards to the person who fell to his unfortunate death, AVM, once again, how did anyone ascertain that the deceased was a member of the Society of Jesus? Perhaps the person in question was an historian? This is quite possible as there are a great many Jesuit historians within the Society and most of those are of the amateur class. Highly educated amateurs, but amatuers never the less, my friend.
Once again, how did anyone know that the 3 young men were Jesuits and how were they able to tell that the young men were searching for gold? Perhaps they were geology students and were on a field trip? This is a likely possibilty, as it is a well known fact that the best geologists are the ones who've seen the most rocks.
As far as wealth of the missions is concerned, no one can state that any single mission had an overabundance of wealth in the form of hard currency, my friend. One can point to the churches and churches of the New World settlements and state "See all of that lavish wealth adorning the church? This PROVES that the Jesuits were illegally mining gold and/or silver!" A statement such as that one is patently untrue and it shows ignor@nce of the Roman Catholic faith and the beliefs of Her members.
All one needs to do is to study the oppulent churches and cathedrals situated throughout Spain and then one soon realizes that it was the wealthy parish patrons who footed the bills for all of that oppulence and lavishment. Those self-same beliefs went with the colonists to the New World settlements and it was quite fashionable for wealthy parish patrons to attempt to *outdo* other parish members as far as donating to the adornment and maintenance of the churches.
In fact, it has been commented a few times by various clergy that some of the New World settlers were tending to go a bit overboard on donating adornments and overlooking the plight of the poor, which was a far greater consideration, especially for the missionaries.
That the chapels, churches and cathedrals were so richly adorned was NOT to impress ANYONE. This is a very common fallacy among non-Catholics and one which I feel needs addressing. The Roman Catholic Church has been adorning Her holy places of worship for at least 1,000 years prior to the Spaniards settling the New World, my friend and it has nothing to do with impressing anyone or trying to keep up with the Joneses.
It was written as early as the 3rd century AD that all churches should be adorned as lavishly as possible in order to greater please our Lord. This tradtion stems from the earlier Jewish tradition and it has been written in early Roman Catholic documents that a person shall remain humble and modest in all things and to not display wealth, except for God's house. I still follow this custom and affect a robe and sandals(boots during the cold months) when I attend Mass as a sign of humility and modesty as did a great many medieval Roman Catholic worshippers.
Therefore, the church adornments did not come from any type of illicit mining activity on the part of the Jesuits, rather the adornments stemmed from donations by wealthy patrons of the mission. In fact, it's a common custom for the patron to pay for a single portion of the churchs' construction directly from their own pocket, without the clergy ever touching the money. For example, if I pledged to burden the expense of a stained glass window, it would be my responsibility to pay the builder(s) directly without using an intermediary. In other words, I would make all the arrangements myself without any intervention from the parish priest, except to plan the time and date of the construction. This is typically how it's done and it avoids any unecessary accusations of mismanagement at a later date.
I hope this clears up a few misconceptions about the Roman Catholic church and our customs, traditions and beliefs.
Your friend;
LAMAR
