Book: Treasure Secrets of the LD by Kenworthy , 1997

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Ladies & gentlemen: It was stated that my data was unsupported by Historical works? Unfortunately I 'am' the source for the 'new' history reference books to be soon rewritten. Remember, history is always being rewritten as new data is uncovered, or the new data is simply buried if inconvenient.

As for the reference book on the Yaqui, may I mention that I intimately lived with them for over 5 years?

That I recovered a huge parcel of land that the Mexicans were taking away from them? Since it included parts of the ciudad of Obregon, it was a legal nightmare to return it, so the gov't built them a large irrigation system instead.

Does the referenced book mention that one of their patron saints, was a Negro? And why? Or the fact that they descended from a race of people only 1 meter tall?

Does any of your reference materiel show how the Jesuits set up a system of small missions to be utilized in leap frogging precious metals across northen Mexico to just below Matamorros for trans shipment to Rome?

As for the Jesuit that fell to his death, he was dressed in ordinary clothing, but documents found, showed that he was associated with the Jesuit society.

The Guayajiro Indians that worked the Tayopa mines for the Jesuits, called them the Black robes, but that generally the ones actually working the Tayopas, or other mines, wore ordinary Mexican clothing.

They also said that when the Jesuits were leaving Tayopa, they descended and went to a ranch one days mule travel to the East and placed a large no of documents, church ornaments, and bars of both gold & Silver in a prepared depository, then covered it with perhaps 10 ft of soil? ORO will open this up later.

As for the three young men, they were dressed in plain clothing, but after establishing confidence - I really am a nice guy - confided that they were looking for a small Gold Mine. I was working with the Local Priest in Chinapas at that time, which helped.

It has been stated in TN else where, that I have found supporting evidence of the Jesuit involvement, in collaboration with the Dutch, to take the Northern Americas away from Spain. This was the true reason that they were simultaneously expelled from all of North America on the same date and time.. An ordinary expulsion would not have required such precise timing.

This will do for a start, but a word of caution, remember history is constantly being rewritten.

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

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[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

My apologies Gullum: what I started out to show was that all books, including history books, are subject to errors. Since I am intimately involved with Tayopa, having found it, I naturally use it, and it's associated search to back my posts.

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[lamar]

Dear Real de Tayopa;
In other words, the supposed Jesuits were most likely not Jesuits at all, were they?
Your friend;
LAMAR

 

[SANTA FE NEW MEXICAN]

 

[SANTA FE NEW MEXICAN]

 

[Oroblanco]

Lamar wrote

the supposed Jesuits were most likely not Jesuits at all, were they?

 

[SANTA FE NEW MEXICAN]

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[mrs.oroblanco]

Lamar,

Our knowlege of history changes - is what Jose is saying - when new things come up, it may change what we think we know. (that includes you too, Lamar).

It could also mean that there were many more Jesuits involved.................................


Here is where there is a snag - Not all Jesuits were bad, not all Jesuits were good. (much like every other religious orders). The very fact that you refuse to acknowledge even ONE instance of misconduct - is, at best - suspect. It is a very high indication that you are the victim of one of two things - either you don't want to know - or, you have a very important dog in the fight. I'm truly wondering which it is.

B

 

[lamar]

Dear mrs.oroblanco;
I agree wholeheartedly that perceptions change when the arrival of new information!
Your friend;
LAMAR

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Good evening: Last intended post on Tayopa and the Jesuits.

I don't suppose that my X assoc., that was Jesuit trained, but never Ordained, who had an Audience with the no. 2 in the hierarchy of the Jesuits in Rome, in which he impudently asked "If My discovery of the Jesuit Plot to take North America away from Spain had any basis"? was rewarded with a laugh, and "Yes, but We don't do such things any more", has any value?

The resident Jesuit Priest in Yecora was wearing brown robes, but introduced himself as a Jesuit and said that whenever I managed to get to Yecora we were to spend the night drinking coffee discussing Tayopa etc.

He was with a truckload of kiddies from Yecora on a sight seeing tour of Alamos in a big old truck. He was filling the truck with gasoline for the return trip.

Why would an acknowledged Jesuit wish to talk about Tayopa and other data that I had about the Jesuits' past activities in the region?

There is much more, but for various reasons, I do not wish to go into it any further, since it may jeopardize my project of locating all of the string of small missions proving the existence of their method of clandestinely moving Precious metals from the Tayopa mines to Rome.

Some were located where there were no Indian populations of any size, if at all, at that time Just the required one day's passage apart for loaded mules and burros.

They never shipped any metal aboard Spanish ships for obvious reasons.

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[lamar]

Dear Real de Tayopa;
If you've actually spoken to a Jesuit wearing a brown robe, then you should consider yourself fortunate, my friend, as seeing a robe-wearing Jesuit is akin to seeing Bigfoot. Did you by chance happen to take a photo or two of the auspicious event? I've never actually seen a real Jesuit wearing a robe of any color, much less a brown one!
Your friend;
LAMAR

 

[mrs.oroblanco]

Gee, I wonder if that is the VERY reason why our own United States has, on record, the Secret Treaty of Verona in its archives.

I think it is far from over.

B

 

[Curtis]

Amen Brother!

For those that are skeptics about the Spanish treasure trails and Kenworthy’s Signs and Symbols book:

Now I don't give heck where he got the signs, they helped me find a Spanish Silver Mine in Kentucky! If you look at the picture you will see that there is a rock map, if you look at it real good you will see several figures right out of the book. Oh yea, I photographed these in 1983 ( a friend and I started looking but put it on hold for 25 years) which is why I didn't know what it was trying to tell me. This past year I got Kenworthy’s book on signs and symbols, and well…..the map then made sense. I found the mine and then went backwards and guess what I found? Several Spanish style markings, each one is reproduced on the large rock map…oh and the rock map is on the back of a turtle shaped rock! The person I believe was the engraver had his name carved near it (no I cannot prove it). Does this go to the credibility of Kenworthy? I think so. I have not read anything of his other than the signs and symbols. I am glad I did and have written the exploits down and will soon try to post a summary of it all. Oh, thank goodness one of the other forum contributors had found some for the signs and posted photos a long time ago or I would have been accused of making them myself. Why am I posting this? To show that the signs and symbols are a valuable contribution to at least the armatures like me in Thing. We have not attained the higher elevations of intellect that these criticmasters have but we are not doing too bad. We could do a lot more if they would share!

The notorious hijacking team just loves to do this stuff. If you didn't know they do it on a lot of threads. They always claim to have this mystic knowledge and access to things you cannot find. Well hogwash! They change the topic because they don't want a full discussion on the subject…maybe the reason is they don't want you to put any store in the topic because others might do it to and someone may just find what they are looking for, and they couldn't stand that. Disinformation is their game. Just tell them to put up or shut up and place some money on it.

Let see the last posts they made with any information we could use was….hmmm well yes it had to be…well, oh my just when was it?

I do have to agree with some of the criticism, and we should welcome that as it keeps us stating the truth and not just conjecture when we post. As for former Treasure Hunters that were writers, most of those legends were based on some facts; they were embellished and caused many people to dream the dream that has brought most of us into this TH thing. So even if they did stretch things a little as long as it wasn't and out and out lie maybe it didn't hurt anything.
As for us, we have a great number of readers who will hold us to the highest accountability and I for one welcome that. It's the on and on bantering that irks me. State your opinion and the facts, with documentation and photos, and discuss them but don't call each other liars and go thru this list again of point and counter point (it's been done time and time again). Get that chip of your shoulder and post some good stuff I can use! If you spent half the time sharing some info on what the Jesuits really did (and named the research sources like maybe Parkman or someone) then you would be doing more good than the harm your criticism does. And it might get you a lot more credibility. Oh I know you'll say “I don't need your credibility, we know this whole thing is a game to you. For most of us it isn't. Now post something I can use about the Spaniards that may have been the ones who were in Kentucky near the town of Grayson! I don't need "spoon fed" or "led around" as you have previously mentioned, just give me some resources/places to look! Its new to me, (a year or so) and i don't know where to start ......did you when you first started? Come on have compassion on these guys like the Jesuits would have! Help us out! They were pretty free with most of their stuff, at least the French ones were, they wrote neat stuff on day to day happenings, battles, places of interest, conversions, debt, inventory, etc.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Top post Curtis my friend. You have done correctly, ignoring the negativity and found your goal. congrats my friend.

Let Curtis stand as an example my friends, he used the book for help and despite of pages of data, even books proving that his object didn't exist, he found it.

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Lamar sigh: He was tall with a magnificent black beard.

No I didn't take any pictures, demand documents signed by the Pope, nor go for a strip search to see what he might be wearing underneath. I still have no idea if he was wearing shoes or sandals since the robe reached to the ground, as a matter of fact it wouldn't have made any difference.

Another point, most of the priests here in Alamos do wear robes and normal business clothes interchangeably. Most of the robes are black, symbolic, and thin.

I never saw Fr Charles Polzer in anything but normal civilian clothing.

So where is your big foot picture?? I have done my part, now you do yours'.

Don Jose de La Mancha

P.S how about congrats for Curtis, Lamar my friend?

 

[lamar]

Dear Curtis;
You are the man, my friend! Congratulations and salutations!!!! Hear, hear!!!
Your friend;
LAMAR

 

[Oroblanco]

Lamar wrote

Dear Real de Tayopa;
If you've actually spoken to a Jesuit wearing a brown robe, then you should consider yourself fortunate, my friend, as seeing a robe-wearing Jesuit is akin to seeing Bigfoot. Did you by chance happen to take a photo or two of the auspicious event? I've never actually seen a real Jesuit wearing a robe of any color, much less a brown one!

So now you call our mutual amigo Don Jose a liar? What a courteous response. What did you expect the man to be wearing, his birthday suit? Do you make such a claim of authority on the Jesuits, that you can say for a certainty that no Jesuit ever wore a brown robe?

Curtis wrote

For those that are skeptics about the Spanish treasure trails and Kenworthy’s Signs and Symbols book:

Now I don't give heck where he got the signs, they helped me find a Spanish Silver Mine in Kentucky!

That sort of makes the issue of whether Kenworthy was telling the truth a moot point - how could one claim Kenworthy was wrong, when his information worked? Congratulations Curtis!

Don Jose', Dueno de Real y Minas de Tayopa wrote

<LAMAR> So where is your big foot picture? I have done my part, now you do yours'.

I would also love to see your photo of Bigfoot, Lamar - and have many questions which will naturally arise!
Oroblanco

 

[lamar]

Lamar wrote

Dear Real de Tayopa;
If you've actually spoken to a Jesuit wearing a brown robe, then you should consider yourself fortunate, my friend, as seeing a robe-wearing Jesuit is akin to seeing Bigfoot. Did you by chance happen to take a photo or two of the auspicious event? I've never actually seen a real Jesuit wearing a robe of any color, much less a brown one!

So now you call our mutual amigo Don Jose a liar? What a courteous response. What did you expect the man to be wearing, his birthday suit? Do you make such a claim of authority on the Jesuits, that you can say for a certainty that no Jesuit ever wore a brown robe?

Curtis wrote

For those that are skeptics about the Spanish treasure trails and Kenworthy’s Signs and Symbols book:

Now I don't give heck where he got the signs, they helped me find a Spanish Silver Mine in Kentucky!

That sort of makes the issue of whether Kenworthy was telling the truth a moot point - how could one claim Kenworthy was wrong, when his information worked? Congratulations Curtis!

Don Jose', Dueno de Real y Minas de Tayopa wrote

<LAMAR> So where is your big foot picture? I have done my part, now you do yours'.

I would also love to see your photo of Bigfoot, Lamar - and have many questions which will naturally arise!
Oroblanco

Dear Oroblanco;
Oh, ye of little faith!
http://wdtprs.com/blog/2009/12/10/
Your friend;
LAMAR

 

[Oroblanco]

Muchas gracias amigo Lamar, very interesting photo for sure!
Oroblanco

 

[Springfield]

Muchas gracias amigo Lamar, very interesting photo for sure!
Oroblanco

I see that cabin fever has struck the north woods again - time for a little fun amongst the locals. Interesting pic, yes - pretty bad bigfoot costume though. Way too much slack in the leggings. I tend to be open-minded about BF (my best friend had a harrowing experience with one near Weaverville, CA in the '60's), but I wouldn't post this photo on my bulletin board.