Blowing The Cast Iron Lids Off Of Beale

[bigscoop]

Is this a thread about the Beale Papers, or is it about Jean Lafitte?

It's about "a lot" of things but I fully understand why you're lost enough to ask. I told you in the beginning, it's complex, especially if you don't already possess a fair amount of knowledge about all of these various elements and complexities. The only way anyone can possible begin to pull it all in is to dive into all of it for themselves. Some are, some never will. You can't help those who refuse to help themselves.

 

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[Rebel - KGC]

And waste time...? Heh...

 

[ECS]

THE FIFTH GENERATION REDUX.

 

[bigscoop]

THE FIFTH GENERATION REDUX.

This is what's so comical....that fact that some of you can't get past those romantic characters who were but just pawns in the much bigger game. Sure, I reference their activities.....but only because they played important roles. You're just completely lost, aren't you.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

This is what's so comical....that fact that some of you can't get past those romantic characters who were but just pawns in the much bigger game. Sure, I reference their activities.....but only because they played important roles. You're just completely lost, aren't you.

LOL! NOT in YOUR fantasies...

 

[bigscoop]

LOL! NOT in YOUR fantasies...

You're correct. It isn't fantasy. And I completely understand why you've decided to speak for ECS.

 

[bigscoop]

You know, one of the common problems with genealogical research is that it is often highly inaccurate, sometimes to the fault of the curator and sometimes simply the fault of existing circumstances. Take Thomas J. Beale of Richmond, for instance, and that reported visit by his son and daughter-in-law from Texas. When one dives into this they will encounter a curious problem....one that I'm certain ECS is aware of by now.

 

[bigscoop]

You know, one of the common problems with genealogical research is that it is often highly inaccurate, sometimes to the fault of the curator and sometimes simply the fault of existing circumstances. Take Thomas J. Beale of Richmond, for instance, and that reported visit by his son and daughter-in-law from Texas. When one dives into this they will encounter a curious problem....one that I'm certain ECS is aware of by now.

Yes Rick and Dave, you are both correct, the Thomas J. Beale of Richmond is a direct descendant of the Thomas Beale that took part in the Mexican rebel struggle for Independence. Thomas J. Beale of Richmond, while a freeman of color was not black, but rather he had Mexican blood, his mother most likely being Dolores de Soto Beales, wife of John Charles Beale, actually Beales, who acquired a land grant next to the grant of Steven F. Austin.


In 1886 John T. Beale and his wife traveled from Texas to visit John's father, Thomas J. Beale of Richmond. This was the critical link that everyone was missing.


Now back to John Charles Beale/Beales, and his wife Dolores de Soto Beale/Beales. John Chalres Beale had associates named Mariano Dominguez (brother of Jose Dominguez, Mexican Congress representative, letters to Clay in 1827) and his sister was;



Doña Josefa Ortiz de Dominguez, a Mexican patriot as well as a heroine of Mexico’s Independence War, made her name in history for her bravery when she risked her own life alerting the rebel insurgents about the discovery of the Queretaro Conspiracy for Independence.


Thanks to her, Father Miguel Hidalgo moved forward the date in which the Independence movement would start to the early hours of September 16th, 1810. Without her timely notice, the struggle for independence would have been discovered and the efforts of the conspirators would never have achieved their ultimate purpose: Mexico’s Independence from the Spanish Crown.


What all of this establishes, as you have now discovered, is that the Beales were directly tied to the liberation efforts of the Mexican rebels, which in turn directly ties them to the activities at Galveston Island and Bolivar Point, which also directly ties them “with intimate interest and investment” in the outcome of the Adams Onis Treaty affairs, which is why the Thomas Beale deposit dates fall in perfect chronological order to both the signing and ratification dates of that treaty.


And now you know the true nature and source behind the Beale pamphlet. Good Job!


So where does this leave us? Well, once we consider all of the other details posted in this thread it leaves without being 100% certain where the wealth actually came from, be it directly from Galveston Island or the Mexican rebels or Bolivar point, or all of the above, the later being the most probable. What we do know is that this had all been arranged sometime prior to April 15[SUP]th[/SUP], 1817, and that it is all directly related to George Graham's secret mission to Galveston Island, Graham being president of the Washington branch of the Second Bank of America at that time.

 

[ECS]

...
[/SIZE]
What all of this establishes, as you have now discovered, is that the Beales were directly tied to the liberation efforts of the Mexican rebels, which in turn directly ties them to the activities at Galveston Island and Bolivar Point, which also directly ties them “with intimate interest and investment” in the outcome of the Adams Onis Treaty affairs, which is why the Thomas Beale deposit dates fall in perfect chronological order to both the signing and ratification dates of that treaty.


And now you know the true nature and source behind the Beale pamphlet. Good Job!

Not so fast, Bigscoop!
If this is the "true nature and source behind the Beale pamphlet", why would an "unknown author" contact James Beverly Ward with a manuscript that has nothing to do with this "true nature" and convince him to spend his own money to publish this fraudulent tale of events that never actually happened?
It appears that you got stranded and lost in all your rabbit hole yellow brick road lost highway theories that anything you write down looks right up until this finial "connection" which you conveniently ignore in you presentations.

 

[ECS]

... the Thomas J. Beale of Richmond is a direct descendant of the Thomas Beale that took part in the Mexican rebel struggle for Independence. Thomas J. Beale of Richmond, while a freeman of color was not black, but rather he had Mexican blood, his mother most likely being Dolores de Soto Beales, wife of John Charles Beale, actually Beales, who acquired a land grant next to the grant of Steven F. Austin.


In 1886 John T. Beale and his wife traveled from Texas to visit John's father, Thomas J. Beale of Richmond. This was the critical link that everyone was missing.


Now back to John Charles Beale/Beales, and his wife Dolores de Soto Beale/Beales. John Chalres Beale had associates named Mariano Dominguez (brother of Jose Dominguez, Mexican Congress representative, letters to Clay in 1827)
...

It needs to be noted that Dr John Charles Beale received close to 80 million acres of Texas land in the Rio Grande valley under the Mexican empressano system in 1832, and his Papers (1832-1855) are online at The University of Texas at Austin/ Briscoe Center.
Once again, this is misrepresentation of history to force fit into a pet theory.

 

[bigscoop]

It needs to be noted that Dr John Charles Beale received close to 80 million acres of Texas land in the Rio Grande valley under the Mexican empressano system in 1832, and his Papers (1832-1855) are online at The University of Texas at Austin/ Briscoe Center.
Once again, this is misrepresentation of history to force fit into a pet theory.

Am I? Well let me present something else to you that I'm certain you are also 100% clueless of..........Beale had several land grants, one of these involving 55 million acres in the Coahuila region of Mexico, this same region also being one of the largest producers of silver, mining being one of the major areas Beale was hoping to profit from. Question is, how did he know this area was richly laden with silver and that it had been the location of several existing rich Mexican mining operations for decades? Do you suppose his partners and Mexican connections had anything to do providing him this "long known" knowledge? Also, when we speak of the actual Beale deposits and the insurgents/rebels/Mexican independence, etc., and the possible sources of those deposits,......... I know, you're at a complete loss again and still trying desperately to pursue debate/argument on a most threatening subject matter that you've not even bothered to research beyond grabbing and quoting from a few quick internet sources. Maybe you should, or either stick to all of that local lore and romance which is your niche.

 

[ECS]

Am I?...

Yes you are.
Tell us what became of Dr John Charles Beales Mexican land grants when it became the REPUBLIC OF TEXAS, and how that relates to the Beale Papers story?
Then tell us how all this became the 1885 Beale Papers copyrighted by Ward after he received a manuscript from an author who wished to be unknown with a story and ciphers that has nothing to do with Mexican land grants, Lafitte, Galveston, New Orleans, the slave trade and any other unrelated bit of history that you can force fit for your pet theory.

 

[ECS]

... Maybe you should... stick to all of that local lore and romance which is your niche.

No local lore or romance , just facts concerning those Lynchburg Virginians that were involved in the creation, copyrighting, printing , publishing, advertising, and sale of the 1885 Beale Papers.
After all, the job pamphlet is and always will be a Virginia adventure/treasure story sold for a very short time period in the Lynchburg area market.
Maybe you should stick to writing fictional conspiracy stories, oh wait, you already are!

 

[bigscoop]

Yes you are.
Tell us what became of Dr John Charles Beales Mexican land grants when it became the REPUBLIC OF TEXAS, and how that relates to the Beale Papers story?
Then tell us how all this became the 1885 Beale Papers copyrighted by Ward after he received a manuscript from an author who wished to be unknown with a story and ciphers that has nothing to do with Mexican land grants, Lafitte, Galveston, New Orleans, the slave trade and any other unrelated bit of history that you can force fit for your pet theory.

....you are so lost. Apparently you think the land grants themselves played a role in the events of 1817-1821....

 

[ECS]

I don't think they had a role in anything that has to do with Ward's 1885 copyrighted Beale Papers, and it seems you can not produce any evidence that connects any of this current behind the Beale story real story that has anything to do with that job pamphlet.
Once again, Bigscoop, why would Ward spend his money on copyrighting and publishing a manuscript that has nothing to do with the "REAL" story that you presented with a fiction with ciphers?
You keep avoiding this most important question.
WHY?

 

[ECS]

....you are so lost. Apparently you think the land grants themselves played a role in the events of 1817-1821....

Apparently you are rewriting history to fit a pet theory.

 

[bigscoop]

Apparently you are rewriting history to fit a pet theory.

Am I? Given that you are such a local lore/romance guy, how many folks in the Lynchburg region have you discovered to have taken active interest or participation in the Mexico/Texas events of 1817-1821, and even before? No clue?

 

[franklin]

Am I? Given that you are such a local lore/romance guy, how many folks in the Lynchburg region have you discovered to have taken active interest or participation in the Mexico/Texas events of 1817-1821, and even before? No clue?

How many grains of sand are there on the beach. How many stones in the ocean. How about how much water in the ocean. Questions that don't need asked just like your question. Why ask a question when you know there are no facts to answer it?

 

[ECS]

Am I?...

Yes, you are avoiding the question of connecting all this random history to Ward and the Beale Papers.
PS: Jackson Ward Alderman Thomas J Beale was born in 1823 in Richmond, Virginia as a freeman of color.
Dr John Charles Beales and Dolores de Soto Beales (Beales was her 2nd husband) were never in Richmond or Virginia.
I am sure you knew that but forgot to mention that fact.

 

[bigscoop]

How many grains of sand are there on the beach. How many stones in the ocean. How about how much water in the ocean. Questions that don't need asked just like your question. Why ask a question when you know there are no facts to answer it?

We're up to 7 now. Start looking into the businesses affairs of those in the region, etc. You might be surprised what you find.