Blowing The Cast Iron Lids Off Of Beale

[bigscoop]

Over the years I have tried to be as open minded and as unbiased as i could possibly be, this being part of the reason why my research has often morphed and at times even been in full support of the fiction theory, etc. However, knew information has always continued to be sought by whatever means I could find it and I have never seen shame in the changing of opinions depending on the progresses made, which I have often exercised. Now there are many noted and respected historians and researchers whose opinions I fully understand and highly respect but even by their own admissions they will tell you that a great deal of those opinions have been based on "accumulated knowledge that often results in educated interpretation." This isn't to say that they can't be wrong in those interpretations/conclusions and I doubt that you will find one of them to stand firm that have never interpreted to wrong conclusion or continued research has never given them cause to change their opinions or conclusions. It's just the nature of the beast, which is why they too keep considering new avenues of research in their search for more answers. The biggest frauds are the one's who arrive at conclusions by limited resource and content and then forever stand on those limited claims. Eventually it will always catch up to them.

 

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[bigscoop]

My suggestion to anyone wanting to research the potential of this theory further is simply this, first, read "The Pirate Laffite" by William C. Davis" and then get your hands on as many of those "relevant" referenced source materials you possibly can. What you will discover is that there is a great deal of "personally educated interpretation" in the summations offered. At the same time, however, use the memoirs as another source of reference and then apply that information to these areas of interpretation as well. I think you'll discover a few things once you do all of this when you further research some of that information in the memoirs. There is a lot regarding the George Graham visit that has been omitted in most contemporary accounts/summations of his activities and purpose while at Galveston Island, and once all of the required source materials have been reviewed and compared and researched I think you'll discover the correct meaning behind the claim in the memoirs that "George Graham was more interested in the arranging of loans." These loans resulting in your two Beale deposits.

 

[franklin]

My suggestion to anyone wanting to research the potential of this theory further is simply this, first, read "The Pirate Laffite" by William C. Davis" and then get your hands on as many of those "relevant" referenced source materials you possibly can. What you will discover is that there is a great deal of "personally educated interpretation" in the summations offered. At the same time, however, use the memoirs as another source of reference and then apply that information to these areas of interpretation as well. I think you'll discover a few things once you do all of this when you further research some of that information in the memoirs. There is a lot regarding the George Graham visit that has been omitted in most contemporary accounts/summations of his activities and purpose while at Galveston Island, and once all of the required source materials have been reviewed and compared and researched I think you'll discover the correct meaning behind the claim in the memoirs that "George Graham was more interested in the arranging of loans." These loans resulting in your two Beale deposits.

William C. Davis if he is the author of books and stories of the Civil War? He only makes quotes that other authors have made over the years. William C. Davis never does any research of his own and everything he writes especially on the Civil War is bull crap. I will never pick up another book of his. I have talked to him on the telephone. The man knows nothing except how to copy other authors and most of those authors print nothing but bull crap either.

 

[bigscoop]

William C. Davis if he is the author of books and stories of the Civil War? He only makes quotes that other authors have made over the years. William C. Davis never does any research of his own and everything he writes especially on the Civil War is bull crap. I will never pick up another book of his. I have talked to him on the telephone. The man knows nothing except how to copy other authors and most of those authors print nothing but bull crap either.

"Source materials"....."research them yourself"....."draw your own conclusions." Having said this, these people can lead you to "a lot" of source materials that you might otherwise never know was even out there.

 

[bigscoop]

Henry Clay, he supported the privateers and insurgents, tried to get the United States to recognize the Buenos Aires and Venezuelan juntas so these privateers and insurgents had a source for letters of marque after the Mexican junta collapsed. Clay also tried to kill legislation outlawing the arming and fitting out of privateers and insurgent vessels in the United States. Now you know why he is referenced in the Beale narration.

Speaking of Buenos Aires, it was George Graham who put Laffite in contact with David C. DeForest, a representative of the insurgents in Buenos Aires, so Jean could pursue the possibility of attaining letters of Marque through the influence of DeForest.

And speaking of George Graham, of "Virginia",......well.......we just did.

 

[bigscoop]

The Second Bank of America was chartered in 1816 and George Graham served as the President of the Washington Branch from 1817 to 1823 (date ranges sound familiar?) "another reason why Laffite traveled to Washington and returned with arrangements for new ships."
Jackson, Clay, Chief Justice Marshall, all of them heavily involved in the circumstances of that bank;

Second Bank of the United States (1816-1836) < A Brief History of Central Banking in the United States - Edward Flaherty < General < Essays < American History From Revolution To Reconstruction and beyond

In Virginia, about four miles from Bufords, if one is so inclined to look, you will find Graham family property during the effected period.

also, in the link above, take note of issues with the bank's questionable operation during the effected period.......

Fellas, it's a done deal. Get over it!

 

[bigscoop]

"Coles" was a slave owner who eventually turned abolitionist, but more importantly, "Coles last public appointment was in 1841, when he served on a committee investigating the U.S. Bank, which ultimately led to the resignation of his friend Nicholas Biddle." This is why he is referenced in the Beale narration, the true nature of the narration involving both of the above subjects, the illegal slave trade and the U.S. Bank.

 

[bigscoop]

In the memoirs, when the author references the names of his captains and ships you have to realize that these captains and ships were not in the direct employ of Galveston Island, rather these are just names of captains and ships that the island did business with. One other thing to be realized, many of the ships that anchored at Galveston Island were doing business with those of Bolivar and the insurgent base that was stationed there, another Galveston Bay operation that we know far too little about other then they were a completely separate entity that also shared business with the Laffite enterprise and many of the same captains and ships. And just how big was all of this business.....

“One prize alone, the 450 ton Campeche, was brought in with a cargo estimated at a value of $360'000.” This is just one prize of hundreds of prizes, if not thousands of prizes that were captured from 1810 to 1821. Another account held a value of over $200'000 and many-many accounts in the $20'000 to $50'000 range. So quite clearly the Spanish commerce in the Gulf was providing absolutely HUGE reward for those involved in the privateering business, not to mention all of the illegal insurgent business that was also taking place, another source of income that was providing absolutely HUGE sources of revenue. When compared to the Beale deposits the Beale deposits become quite minuscule to the overall profits that were being captured and reaped during the era.

 

[releventchair]

A practice proven effective against the British earlier , simply continued against Spain.
Author notes that during revolutionary time ,Virginia did not see the trafficking of seized vessels/cargo's as did other sites.

Citizen sailors plunder British ships - Washington Times

 

[bigscoop]

A practice proven effective against the British earlier , simply continued against Spain.
Author notes that during revolutionary time ,Virginia did not see the trafficking of seized vessels/cargo's as did other sites.

Citizen sailors plunder British ships - Washington Times

That article is an absolute gem in its assessment of the same process that was being employed and outlined in this thread.

 

[releventchair]

When puzzling over a Robert Morris doing business with a Robert Morris....the one had an alleged over 2000 ships involved in profiteering (?).
About the same amount as the quoted total ships by all parties during the previous revolution....

 

[ECS]

...

Fellas, it's a done deal. Get over it!

If you say so, but none of this relates in any way directly to the Beale story presented in the 1885 Beale Papers.
AS with all your many theories, all you have accomplished is piling on different events of that time period, with the names and dates that were in the 1885 job pamphlet, and created this alternative fantasy story behind the Beale story presented in the job pamphlet.
As for the claim that the signing and ratification dates of the Adams-Onis Treaty match the vault deposit dates in the Beale Papers,
what is the connection, when no money was exchanged during those dates, and the spoliation payments were made at a later date by a committee.

 

[ECS]

"Coles" was a slave owner who eventually turned abolitionist, but more importantly, "Coles last public appointment was in 1841, when he served on a committee investigating the U.S. Bank, which ultimately led to the resignation of his friend Nicholas Biddle." This is why he is referenced in the Beale narration, the true nature of the narration involving both of the above subjects, the illegal slave trade and the U.S. Bank.

The Coles mentioned in the Beale Papers is Col Issac Coles (12/24/1745-6/3/1813) a Revolutionary War hero of Virginia who in the Beale Papers was said to have been a guest of Robert Morriss.
Fitting facts again to fit a pet theory.

 

[franklin]

"Source materials"....."research them yourself"....."draw your own conclusions." Having said this, these people can lead you to "a lot" of source materials that you might otherwise never know was even out there.

I do and I have done a lot of research I have volumes of my own. I have drawn my own conclusions as you have drawn yours. All though they are completely different. I went down the Adams-Onis Treaty road years ago. I found nothing there. I even helped do a video for a Cheyenne Indian that deciphered the Beale Code Papers using the Adams-Onis Treaty. Still I believe the story was made up. Until someone can prove that there was an actual group of men that went to Sante Fe and mined gold 300 miles North of there and how and when they carried it back to Virginia and buried it. I have seen no proof I mean Zero proof.

As for finding an alternate source for the treasure is something that is beyond reasoning. If the story was made up for a cover-up story then why the letters and why the code sheets. Also why bring Robert Morris into the story. Why was the 30 men making out codes with their names surely they had friends and neighbors they could have confided with and why place all of the gold and silver into one location. Why did not the ten men with TJB take their shares and cancel them near their homes where relatives could have watched it.

No proof in trapper journals, no proof in newspapers or letters of the time and no proof in the Spanish Archives. The story was made up by a 14 year old boy by the name of W.W. Watts. Look at the first ads placed in the Lynchburg Newspapers. It had at the bottom contact W. W. Watts. He was an apprentice at the newspaper. And who would need a grown up to be agent for the author someone under age enter James Beverly Ward and the rest is history.

 

[bigscoop]

I do and I have done a lot of research I have volumes of my own. I have drawn my own conclusions as you have drawn yours. All though they are completely different. I went down the Adams-Onis Treaty road years ago. I found nothing there. I even helped do a video for a Cheyenne Indian that deciphered the Beale Code Papers using the Adams-Onis Treaty. Still I believe the story was made up. Until someone can prove that there was an actual group of men that went to Sante Fe and mined gold 300 miles North of there and how and when they carried it back to Virginia and buried it. I have seen no proof I mean Zero proof.

As for finding an alternate source for the treasure is something that is beyond reasoning. If the story was made up for a cover-up story then why the letters and why the code sheets. Also why bring Robert Morris into the story. Why was the 30 men making out codes with their names surely they had friends and neighbors they could have confided with and why place all of the gold and silver into one location. Why did not the ten men with TJB take their shares and cancel them near their homes where relatives could have watched it.

No proof in trapper journals, no proof in newspapers or letters of the time and no proof in the Spanish Archives. The story was made up by a 14 year old boy by the name of W.W. Watts. Look at the first ads placed in the Lynchburg Newspapers. It had at the bottom contact W. W. Watts. He was an apprentice at the newspaper. And who would need a grown up to be agent for the author someone under age enter James Beverly Ward and the rest is history.

"Forget about taking the story verbatim!" You're still clinging to all the local lore and legend and romance. "GET ALL OF THAT OUT OF YOUR HEAD!" Or you will forever be researching in romantic circles that don't exist and never did.

 

[bigscoop]

The Coles mentioned in the Beale Papers is Col Issac Coles (12/24/1745-6/3/1813) a Revolutionary War hero of Virginia who in the Beale Papers was said to have been a guest of Robert Morriss.
Fitting facts again to fit a pet theory.

Yes you are! Finally we are in complete agreement. Thanks for finally admitting it.

 

[bigscoop]

but none of this relates in any way directly to the Beale story presented in the 1885 Beale Papers.

This is because you have ZERO personal knowledge of the subject matter of this thread. It's all here for you take in for yourself over the next few years. Up to you, or, you can keep trying to pursue pointless argument over what you personally know very little about.

 

[ECS]

That's because you seem to be making it up as you go along.

 

[bigscoop]

That's because you seem to be making it up as you go along.

That's because you know little to nothing about the actual subject matter so only natural that you would see it as such. Hard to understand what is so foreign to you.

 

[bigscoop]

A little history about the illegal slave trade and how the United States even passed legislation to turn those slaves into legal merchandise. In essence it worked like this......


Laffite sold his slaves, thousands of them, for 1 dollar a pound to select buyers. Because of passed legislation anyone who turned in illegal slaves was to earn 50% of each slave's value once they were confiscated and then sold by the state. The government passed this off as being a law to discourage illegal slaves sales, however, in reality this law allowed buyers to purchase slaves at 1 dollar a pound, take them straight to customs and turn them in, to which they received up 500% on their initial investment when these slaves were sold for several times their original value.


In other words lets say we bought a 170lb male slave for $170 off of Laffite then we took that slave straight to customs who eventually sold that same slave for $1500, which was common price for a healthy male slave of that age once this new legislation, and others, starved the legal slave market.. In the end the origin investment of $170 turns into $750 for the buyer. And on top of this, that slave, at the point of government sale, then becomes legal merchandise, complete with papers.


As for those select buyers, these were mostly partners with Laffite in the scheme, often buying these slaves at 1 dollar a pound “for Laffite himself” and then splitting the end profits with him. So in the above example Laffite was making anywhere from 200-300% return from every slave he sold with best estimates suggesting that he had sold “thousands of slaves” each year during his years as a slave smuggler. And this is just the profits/returns from the slave portion of his smuggling enterprise. And don't think for a second that officials were blind to all of this.

Obviously the profits and revenues were HUGE!