Ancient coin ? (Updated! more pics)

[history hunter]

I found this coin while metal detecting when I was a kid. I thought it was fake until I brought it to a coin show and a dealer said it was not necessarily fake. I was wondering if anyone knew anything about it?

 

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[Bigcypresshunter]

No I have not heard from him yet. Also in a a lot of the crevices, there is ether a green build up, or a darker build up.

I would expect it to have some discoloration esp. in the crevices because it may be from a 100 year old watch fob, but it is not apparent in the pic. Even my wheat pennies are not exactly the same color as when lost. But maybe I am putting too much emphasis on condition SS seems to be implying it means nothing and 2000 year old coins are found looking like the day they were lost.

Your pics are GREAT and even though they can be decieving, thats all we can go on.

 

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[testing123]

Nice find. I don't see any indication that this piece is an authentic ancient coin, though.

Just for kicks I'm going to post a picture of this "coin" in the World & Ancient coin forum over at PCGS to see what the members there say.

 

[CRUSADER]

I am not experienced

obviously.

We can turn this into a slanging match if you want, I personely don't want to fall out with you.

I am not the judge and jury, read the first 2 pages of the thread.

I don't ever like to take sides, I only state my own case.

I understand the point you are making, & my point is similar. You can tell from photo's with experience, because of the points you have just quoted. ie. I have handled many thousands of coins & have brought many fakes to compare them to, so I can tell the diffference, from a photo. You must be able to hedge your bets that it not real. (if not handle a few fakes & take pictures, it will become clearer). The coins the experts are talking abouts are very difficult to tell apart but this one is not. Please take this from someone willing to lose $1000

You never read the link also buying coins doesn't make you an expert, good judge maybe, there are plently of experienced dealers that have been fooled.

I've never called or wanted to be called an Expert. 1 of the below has indeed fooled a number of experienced dealers. I don't put myself in any of the following boxes: Expert or Dealer. However, I have sold alot & if I were to call myself anything it would be a keen collector, and yes collectors get caught out as well. So all you prove is we are all human.

SS,
Look at my picture & with some research, you might be able to tell me if any of them are fake. (from a picture). This one is difficult, but I could tell which one was fake from the picture.

 

[CRUSADER]

I find it rather odd there has been no replies from academia

reputation is everything to them

 

[IronSpike]

"In 1996, McMenamin presented groundbreaking evidence—that mariners of ancient Carthage made it to America long before Eriksson and Columbus, some time around 350 BC."

At this point in time one would think history hunter or bigcypresshunter would at least have received a response on the contact made to McMenamin and others

Maybe all on vacation or just don't want 1996 unsuccessful presentation of evidence to resurface

I do believe this one eventually will get a green check and either way of ID it's an awesome find history hunter

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Please post an ancient bronze coin that you dug exactly as it was when it came out of the ground with only water cleaning so we can compare to HHs coin. Thank you.

I haven't got one, do I have to I posted Ancient bronze coins with no corrosion, I will post another, it compares to HH coin, isn't the whole point to this about it being real or fake this one I am posting dates from 190bc, it looks as if was made yesterday(must be fake )

Im not upset SS nor am I bitter, but I have a question. If you have never dug a 2000 year old bronze, how do you know what it looks like coming out of the ground? How do you know the coin you posted with no link wasnt cleaned or non-dug?

 

[johnnyi]

"Then take a closer look at identical denticals on HH's and the Alabama coin. How would that be explained"

Absolutely right Iron Spike. This is the point I've been trying to make since this argument began. There is NO explaination for the misplaced identically placed "fading" denticals , other than these are modern cast fakes. I'd sure like to hear any explaination which would in the slightest way show otherwise.




"

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

"Then take a closer look at identical denticals on HH's and the Alabama coin. How would that be explained" quote Ironspike

Absolutely right Iron Spike. This is the point I've been trying to make since this argument began. There is NO explaination for the misplaced identically placed "fading" denticals , other than these are modern cast fakes. I'd sure like to hear any explaination which would in the slightest way show otherwise.




"

The explanation they give is the Alabama and Arkansas coins were stamped with the same die. (They havent commented on HHs Wisconsin coin yet).

 

[johnnyi]

"The explanation they give is the Alabama and Arkansas coins were stamped with the same die. (They havent commented on HHs Wisconsin coin yet)."

Ha! Right there you see their explaination to be nonsense! If these three identical coins (all in different states of "decay") were produced from a die, no one engraving that die would have any reason under the sun not to also engrave denticles around its perimeter. Even the two coins they had at their disposal had the faked denticals in the same location (though one was "worn")

 

[Silver Searcher]

I am not experienced

obviously.

We can turn this into a slanging match if you want, I personely don't want to fall out with you.

I am not the judge and jury, read the first 2 pages of the thread.

I don't ever like to take sides, I only state my own case.

I understand the point you are making, & my point is similar. You can tell from photo's with experience, because of the points you have just quoted. ie. I have handled many thousands of coins & have brought many fakes to compare them to, so I can tell the diffference, from a photo. You must be able to hedge your bets that it not real. (if not handle a few fakes & take pictures, it will become clearer). The coins the experts are talking abouts are very difficult to tell apart but this one is not. Please take this from someone willing to lose $1000

You never read the link also buying coins doesn't make you an expert, good judge maybe, there are plently of experienced dealers that have been fooled.

I've never called or wanted to be called an Expert. 1 of the below has indeed fooled a number of experienced dealers. I don't put myself in any of the following boxes: Expert or Dealer. However, I have sold alot & if I were to call myself anything it would be a keen collector, and yes collectors get caught out as well. So all you prove is we are all human.

SS,
Look at my picture & with some research, you might be able to tell me if any of them are fake. (from a picture). This one is difficult, but I could tell which one was fake from the picture.

Are you trying to put me on the spot after all I said about coin experts(which I am not) not giving a valid ID, by way of a picture, and with out handling the coin, you want me to make a wild guess, by a picture

send me the coins and I will tell you. if you want me to guess by your picture, to try and make me look wrong well OK....the one on the right.

 

[CRUSADER]

I am not experienced

obviously.

We can turn this into a slanging match if you want, I personely don't want to fall out with you.

I am not the judge and jury, read the first 2 pages of the thread.

I don't ever like to take sides, I only state my own case.

I understand the point you are making, & my point is similar. You can tell from photo's with experience, because of the points you have just quoted. ie. I have handled many thousands of coins & have brought many fakes to compare them to, so I can tell the diffference, from a photo. You must be able to hedge your bets that it not real. (if not handle a few fakes & take pictures, it will become clearer). The coins the experts are talking abouts are very difficult to tell apart but this one is not. Please take this from someone willing to lose $1000

You never read the link also buying coins doesn't make you an expert, good judge maybe, there are plently of experienced dealers that have been fooled.

I've never called or wanted to be called an Expert. 1 of the below has indeed fooled a number of experienced dealers. I don't put myself in any of the following boxes: Expert or Dealer. However, I have sold alot & if I were to call myself anything it would be a keen collector, and yes collectors get caught out as well. So all you prove is we are all human.

SS,
Look at my picture & with some research, you might be able to tell me if any of them are fake. (from a picture). This one is difficult, but I could tell which one was fake from the picture.

Are you trying to put me on the spot after all I said about coin experts(which I am not) not giving a valid ID, by way of a picture, and with out handling the coin, you want me to make a wild guess, by a picture

send me the coins and I will tell you. if you want me to guess by your picture, to try and make me look wrong well OK....the one on the right.

I'm not trying to make you look wrong, you missed the point. The one on the right is correct, I hoped you would do a little research & find identical ones on-line. Proving what we have here, which is that if you find identical looking coins with the same defects (or denticals), it has nothing to do with (for example) that it was struck from the same dies. Every coin in this period is going to come out slightly different, then throw in potential wear, time it was lost, soil it was lost in etc & you will never see an identical coin (unless its a modern copy)

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Proving what we have here, which is that if you find identical looking coins with the same defects (or denticals), it has nothing to do with (for example) that it was struck from the same dies. Every coin in this period is going to come out slightly different, then throw in potential wear, time it was lost, soil it was lost in etc & you will never see an identical coin (unless its a modern copy)

Ah. Good point. I collect pictures of Spanish cob fakes, copies, and replicas. I dont know ancients but I have IDed many fake cobs with these pictures. If I find 2 that are identical, they are not real because no 2 hammered cobs are alike.. In this case we now have 3 identical coins. The odds of this happening are astronomical. Throw in the point that the plating hasnt even worn off and the evidence is there.

It may be hard to judge from a picture, but that is all we have to go on. It can be done in most cases. We do it here at TN all the time.

 

[Dano Sverige]

Ah but...are you RIGHT "here all the time"?

 

[traderoftreasures]

oh boy.......

 

[Oroblanco]

Not to put a damper on the hammered coins debate, BUT some archaeologists think Carthage made at least some copper/bronze coins by casting rather than by hammering. At least one casting mould was found in a dig done in the city that I know of. Photos of it may be online by now.
Oroblanco

 

[CRUSADER]

Not to put a damper on the hammered coins debate, BUT some archaeologists think Carthage made at least some copper/bronze coins by casting rather than by hammering. At least one casting mould was found in a dig done in the city that I know of. Photos of it may be online by now.
Oroblanco

I would like to learn more about this process, because all Roman & Iron Age coins were moulded first before hammering. Is it this process you mean? The moulds were clay which would never produce a finish like the one pictured, or are you saying they were more advanced than the Romans & produced coins in high finish metal moulds? If they could produce a coin mould that would finish a coin like the one pictured, that would be extremely impressive. Where is the evidence? Pictures of moulds or museums with them in?

 

[CRUSADER]

Ah but...are you RIGHT "here all the time"?

Have you joined to help us? Comments like this are used when trying to inflame an agrument. No-one on here would say they are right all the time. If you had read my posts for example you would have noticed I wrong alot of time & the first to admit it (part of learning). Those that have the issues are those that don't want to accept they are wrong when the evidence shows otherwise.

Help us prove it either way or stop with the unhelpful comments. When you first joined I was glad to see another Brit onboard, so please stay positive & help.

Most of us here, are here to learn & share information, facts are welcome & so are debates on items which are tough to track down either in books or on-line.

 

[IronSpike]

Not to put a damper on the hammered coins debate, BUT some archaeologists think Carthage made at least some copper/bronze coins by casting rather than by hammering. At least one casting mould was found in a dig done in the city that I know of. Photos of it may be online by now.
Oroblanco

Here's a great link with Carthaginian coinage. Is the coin listed this link?

http://images.google.com/imgres?img...inian+coinange&hl=en&rlz=1G1ACGW_ENUS342&um=1

These coin experts may be able to give an unbiased opinion on history hunter's coin.

 

[IronSpike]

Just curious as whether Oroblanco's other referenced coin also not listed this great link?

 

[traderoftreasures]

please have a look at this similar, yet different coin. it contains no dolphins yet is authentic.