Ancient coin ? (Updated! more pics)

[history hunter]

I found this coin while metal detecting when I was a kid. I thought it was fake until I brought it to a coin show and a dealer said it was not necessarily fake. I was wondering if anyone knew anything about it?

 

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[Bigcypresshunter]

please have a look at this similar, yet different coin. it contains no dolphins yet is authentic.

It appears to be a Carthaginian bronze coin in very good condition. We dont know if it was plated or not. It may have all wore off.

HHs coin appears to still have plating in the lower spots. It appears to me that HHs plating has worn off on the high spots from wear and little change from being underground for 2000 years. Its just the way it appears to me.

Could you post the link so we can read it?

 

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[traderoftreasures]

here is the link. not to the exact coin, it's about 40 or 50 clicks to the next coin.
i saved it in favorites on this coin because i liked seeing the hook in the coin hole.
http://www.forumancientcoins.com/moonmoth/coins/valens_011.html

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

The coloration does seem similar. ...maybe not as shiny.

SS says bronze coins can come out of the ground looking like the day they were lost 2000 years ago. I dont know because I never dug one and have been asking for someone that has dug one or a link to prove it. Simply a picture could be a museum piece or it could have been cleaned or it may have been found in some kind of preserved environment.

The only thing it may prove is that Carthage minted bronze coins.

 

[johnnyi]

Not to put a damper on the hammered coins debate, BUT some archaeologists think Carthage made at least some copper/bronze coins by casting rather than by hammering. At least one casting mould was found in a dig done in the city that I know of. Photos of it may be online by now.
Oroblanco

Oroblanco, hardly a damper, but instead enlightening, at least to me who knows very little about ancient coins. I couldn't find the Carthage cast coin, but I found a couple Roman cast counterfeits which also show denticals intentionally misaligned to give the illusion of a struck coin. I doubt if it means much regarding this particular coin being discussed, except for the fact that people used the same tricks 2000 years ago to fool others as they use them today. http://images.google.com/imgres?img...=/images?q=ancient+cast+coins&hl=en&sa=G&um=1

 

[Dano Sverige]

Ah but...are you RIGHT "here all the time"?

Have you joined to help us? Comments like this are used when trying to inflame an agrument. No-one on here would say they are right all the time. If you had read my posts for example you would have noticed I wrong alot of time & the first to admit it (part of learning). Those that have the issues are those that don't want to accept they are wrong when the evidence shows otherwise.

Help us prove it either way or stop with the unhelpful comments. When you first joined I was glad to see another Brit onboard, so please stay positive & help.

Most of us here, are here to learn & share information, facts are welcome & so are debates on items which are tough to track down either in books or on-line.

Apparently a sense of humour's not welcome here? Ok as of now i'll try to lose it and keep things all scientific and above board.
I expect this from Americans,but as a Brit you should know full well how we have a penchant for having a bit of a laugh now and then!
Carry on.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

I agree that the denticals are faked and it is the key to solving this. They may not have seen the HH Wisconsin coin yet but they have been invited to view it. Here they are side by side to compare the EXACT denticals.


I dont know if this helps but I tried to draw a complete circle of where the denticals would be on this die if it where real. I did it by tracing a bowl on the screen because my photoshop capabilities are limited.

 

[history hunter]

Seems like the roots are slightly lower in the black and white pic than it is on my coin.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Seems like the roots are slightly lower in the black and white pic than it is on my coin.

I agree the roots look a little lower.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Seems like the roots are slightly lower in the black and white pic than it is on my coin.

I agree the roots look a little lower.

It is an illusion because of the color difference in the photos. The only thing different is the shape of the flan

Yes that is what I meant that the flan/blank is different. The roots in relation to the horse are the same.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Nobody has mentioned the side view. Does this mean anything? Is the bottom flat? Is that a seam?

 

[CRUSADER]

Ah but...are you RIGHT "here all the time"?

Have you joined to help us? Comments like this are used when trying to inflame an agrument. No-one on here would say they are right all the time. If you had read my posts for example you would have noticed I wrong alot of time & the first to admit it (part of learning). Those that have the issues are those that don't want to accept they are wrong when the evidence shows otherwise.

Help us prove it either way or stop with the unhelpful comments. When you first joined I was glad to see another Brit onboard, so please stay positive & help.

Most of us here, are here to learn & share information, facts are welcome & so are debates on items which are tough to track down either in books or on-line.

Apparently a sense of humour's not welcome here? Ok as of now i'll try to lose it and keep things all scientific and above board.
I expect this from Americans,but as a Brit you should know full well how we have a penchant for having a bit of a laugh now and then!
Carry on.

Humours fine, your find plenty of it on here, & lots from me as well. 'RIGHT' in uppercase is shouting, didn't see the funny side myself maybe others did

 

[traderoftreasures]

Guarantee thats all you get from me. I'm the class clown. You can tell me to sit in the hall, but i won't listen.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Ah but...are you RIGHT "here all the time"?

The only member that is right here all the time is PBK. Collectively we usually end up with the right ID. If its not right we will change it. I agree with Cru that your comments are usually unhelpful as you are constantly criticizing or jokingly criticizing. Try to mix it up a little with some serious posts.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Guarantee thats all you get from me. I'm the class clown. You can tell me to sit in the hall, but i won't listen.

Thanks for posting the bronze coin. You asked us to take a look but I dont know what you want us to see.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

I took the time to trace a bowl on my screen again more carefully and it appears the denticals would cut off the roots with this curvature. If anyone can draw a more perfect circle with photoshop, please try.

 

[johnnyi]

Yeah Cy, I tried this the other day (and wasted half my printer ink in the process because I didn't know how to isolate the one picture and printed the whole thread!) Anyway I used a compass and straight edge. I blew it up, marked off a triangle with two equal sides from the top dot and botton dot to a random point near the middle of the coin. I kept moving the point of the compass wider (backwards from the arc of denticles) along the line from the mid point of the compass and the mid point of the arc until I perfectly bisected each one of the dots with the other end of the compass. My circle , like your's, went out into space on the left side, but it managed to include the whole design fairly believably which surprised me. It surprised me because I had a bet with myself that that line of denticals was too straight (too great an arc) and the circle would be much larger than it was.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

I just kept trying different size bowls on my screen in Paint. Its a bit close to the roots but possible.

What do you think about the side view johnnyi?

 

[johnnyi]

"What do you think about the side view johnnyi?"

Cy, I don't know anything about ancient coins so I can only tell you what I see. I don't see a seam, but I see even wear around the visible edge, and it seems to stay at a clean 90% angle. Don't know if that's the way edges of ancient coins appear or not. The most obvious thing I see is the denticals standing up like the Swiss Alps, yet again, the edge shows even uniform wear.

Considering how high the dentical are, it might be fun to flip the coin and compare the image of the corresponding place where they are high. The flip side should be highest there also (unless the manufacturer forgot that pressure from a blow would show on both top and bottom in the same quadrant of both sides)

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

I dont know enough about ancients either so I cant comment too much, but the thing that jumps out at me is the height. This thing has a huge height almost as if cast or added on somehow.. I think we are looking at the face side that also has missing denticals.. I wonder if the other side is flat?

 

[traderoftreasures]

Yeah Cy, I tried this the other day (and wasted half my printer ink in the process because I didn't know how to isolate the one picture and printed the whole thread!) Anyway I used a compass and straight edge. I blew it up, marked off a triangle with two equal sides from the top dot and botton dot to a random point near the middle of the coin. I kept moving the point of the compass wider (backwards from the arc of denticles) along the line from the mid point of the compass and the mid point of the arc until I perfectly bisected each one of the dots with the other end of the compass. My circle , like your's, went out into space on the left side, but it managed to include the whole design fairly believably which surprised me. It surprised me because I had a bet with myself that that line of denticals was too straight (too great an arc) and the circle would be much larger than it was.

Johnnie, try going to start
all programs
accessories
snipping tool ...... to isolate pictures, if you have it you will love it