???????????????

Hey af…I can’t say that I have never dug any coins or gold found with a metal detector. I have dug a lot of coins using a metal detector. When I use my rods I can expect to find my target within ½ inch of the spot I marked. When I get down a foot and a half there is no longer any way to reference where that spot was. I have used a metal detector to test on gold signals to try and determine if it is micro-gold or flakes. So far it has not helped….Art
 

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Dowsing for me at least, is not a pinpoint accuracy thing yet. I can get oh within a foot or so of the object. In other words I can't mark a one inch X on the sand and say it's HERE.... and on that, you don't want to dig dead on an object anyways, why risk gashing it with your digging tool. Many times Ill dig a hole, and either hold the pendulum in the hole if need be but once i get close to where I know the depth is, Ill use the metal detector or a pinpointer to actually find where the object is so I can hone in on getting it out.

There have been a few times where a dowser has actually dug about 4 inches next to the item, and once their hole is 3 feet deep and they run the detector down, find that it's in the wall, then they excavate a much smaller hole in the wall of the big hole to fetch their item. Some of them actually do this on purpose so they CAN actually pinpoint the object with a machine and know exactly where it is so they don't hit it and ruin it.

Again it's not an extremely exact art, (for me at least) I can't say it's X here on this tiny little spot and 47 and 3/4 inches down. Ahh theres a coin down here, within 2 to 4 feet. dig a bit look, dig a bit more, look, dig abit, bingo there it is.

Aaron
 

This flat earth is very similar to the un-discovered science defense. Just the ancient persons had "un-discovered science" that would one day proove the world was round, so too do dowsers have "un-discovered science" that will one day proove their practice is scientific, follows natural laws, etc....

But this assumption ASSUMES from the get-go, that dowsing is scientific and natural. Unlike the round earth vs flat earth, they were simply wrong then, but didn't know it. So, since neither side can depend on future presently un-proven things, how can either side depend on this crutch for their defense?

On the contrary, just as true science eventually proved the world was round, I believe that true science has also proven that dowsing can not work. You can connect your body parts all you want as being similar to metal detector parts (sending signals, receiving signals, body energy being the battery/energy, etc..), but it will no more make your body a metal/treasure finder, than I can become a micro-wave oven, just by naming parts of my body that I believe are similar to micro-wave oven parts.
 

Hey Aaron…I can estimate the depth of the object within 6 inches. When I start digging the top of the hole gets larger as I go down. Trying to hang my heels over the edge of the hole will tell you which side of the hole the object is closest to. But then you may have little cave in’s and that means more dirt to get out of the hole. It is much easier to stick a metal detector in the hole to pinpoint the object. There is some information at http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,19537.0.html... This may help you get closer and judge the depth better…Art
 

Art i probably can get closer if I work on it, in fact I am pretty sure I can, but generally by the time I am 'on the spot' I am exited to the point I don't concentrate as much as i should and it might throw it off. Then again, i never really did say, ok is it between 4 and 4 1/2 feet yes or no. type thing.... perhaps its just my discipline and / or me needing to think through my thought pattern a bit more carefully as I delve but i do good at a foot. Granted it's in fairly loose sand on the beach so that's what, an extra two minutes of digging BFD.. now if i was digging through hard ass august packed clay in chicago it would be a big difference ;D
Im going to go read the thread you posted now.

thanks and good fortune in your future endeavors.

aaron

Oh and PS you can't help it but make the hole wider as you go deeper, it'd just collapse and fill in otherwise heh...
 

Morning TOM: your quote--->

But the minute a dowser tries to explain it as a natural ability (like heightened smell) or science (whether explained or not explained), is where I differ."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Why? As for a heightened ability either learned or developed by an incident or practice, I was hit with cyanaide poisoning. As a result I can now smell an open container or area where cyanaide has been used up to 30 + metres.

I have won a bit of money on this since Cyanide is supposedly undetectable to a human. It gives me a very disagreeable sickly sweet odor.

Incidentally, just what is your basis for saying that dowsing "isn't" just an undeveloped ability?

I investigated the para-normal for years and used hypnotism. as an aid. I brought out many abilities that could be considered supernatural but obviously were not. Hypnosis cannot give you anything that you do not have, but which may be simply undeveloped or dormant abilities.

Don Jose de La Mancha
 

[Af: HI bk again for more sapring. yuor quote_>

Dowsing is contrary to elementary scientific rules and principals, and something so grievously wrong can't be left in public view for long before someone calls you out on it
~~~~~~~~~~~~~

What elementary scientific rules etc?

Don Jose de La Mancha
 

AF: your quote-->

Can you tell me any other activity that someone can only do if they believe it will work?
~~~~~~~~~`
Silly you, a crude example would be the olympic sports. If you don't believe that you can win, you won't..


Don Jose de La Mancha
 

HI AF: this is fun, you quoted ___>

Science can explain most everything that is going on this planet, and a lot of others as well, but when science can't come up with an explanation then you begin to drift off into a number of realms that most people don't consider themselves associated with, ie. supernatural, religion, dark arts, voodoo, you name it.
~~~~~~~~~
Is this your reason for denying then? Hmmm.

Don Jose de La Mancha
 

HI TOM: your quote-->

The minute someone says it's naturally explainable as an elevated bodily function, as if you're body were a human metal detector, is when you will get challenged that that is impossible
~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Why? Just look at the things that you take for granted daily which your body and mind indicate. Incidentally why do you say metal detector?

Don Jose de La Mancha
 

AF: your quote--->

As I recall, Bob attempted to do the test anyway, and failed miserably, with or without Carl being present.
~~~~~~~~~~~

Can you post the details of the actual test, I would like very much to see them.

Don Jose de La Mancha
 

aF: Again, y9u quoted --->

if I practiced, I could walk a tightrope, whether I believed in tightrope walking or not.
~~~~~~~~~

Hmmm isn't that precisely what most of the dowsers, and myself are saying?

Don Jose de L Mancha
 

HIO ASCHOLTEN: your quote-->

Why do you folks keep trying to convince the other side of your belief
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Because debates, or even arguments, are fun . Brain food. Beats TV. Personally I could care less in converting them.

Don Jose de La Mancha
 

you might as well try to have an intelligent conversation with a parakeet then for what it's worth... but given the last rash of posts. it seems you already started that...

Aaron
 

HIO ASc" You got it ! Of course it might be more credit to you if you agree or disagree with what I have been saying.

Don Jose de La Mancha

p.s. the series of posts were simply to catch up and to address the points brought up. on the previous posts. I presume that you noticed?
 

Real de Tayopa said:
aF: Hmmm your quote -->

And, pray tell, where have I been incorrect in the past

~~~~~~~~~~~~

You "are" joking of course?

Don Jose de La Mancha
Click to expand...
No joke. Dowsers are fond of telling us skeptics that we are incorrect, but have a nasty habit of failing to point out these errors, and instead reverting back to their standard platforms of "I don't have to prove anything," and "you can't dowse so you couldn't possibly understand," and, my personal favorite, "science will prove dowsing works someday."
 

Real De Tayopa, you say: "I was hit with cyanaide poisoning. As a result I can now smell an open container or area where cyanaide has been used up to 30 + metres." Great, you have a keen sense to sniff out a particular compound. Therefore, this keen sense IS within the realms of human acheivability. Ie.: it is within the realms of normal, since you have attained to it.

But let's say that I claimed to you, that I could talk to the dead, see into the future, cast spells, etc... If I tried to tell you those things were merely naturally attainable, scientifically explainable, etc... You would tell me "Nope, it is occult. Those are not "natural things" at all.

I mean c'mon Real, pick ANYTHING you would truly call superstition, occult, etc... Now, get that practice in your mind. Got it there? Ok, now, go apply all your same defenses about dowsing, and see how they too can also be used to prop up the very practices that even you would call occult. How can you deny those practioners the same lines that you use?

No I'm not saying you don't sincerely believe that it's natural and scientific. I'm not saying you're on par with the trouble-maker goth kid who wants to get into spooky stuff. And yeah, spooky stuff can work! Weird things go on in this world.

There's no way a brass rod finding a coin a mile away can be supported from science or natural abilities (ala, like heightened smell). In the same way that other spiritual things are also not naturally occuring or scientific. They exceed and go beyond science (whether known or unknown science) and go beyond natural ability.
 

"You speak of the ability of a Brass rod to locate a coin a mile away? Two different subjects. Show me the actual event where a Brass rod located a coin a mile away, then you may have substance for intelligent discussion. Dell" Dell, no joke! This claim has been made. Heck, even 2 miles away. Or do they mean "coins" in general? (as in, a cache or jar)? In any case, even if it's 1 ft. away, I don't believe dowsing has any scientific or natural merit to point to objects. Yes, supernatural maybe, but not scientific or natural in occurance.
 

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