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[Urban Prospector]

I see your point about drawing with a pencil. If we were talking about walking a tight rope would your belief in yourself make a difference?

 

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[ClonedSIM]

I see your point about drawing with a pencil. If we were talking about walking a tight rope would your belief in yourself make a difference?

Belief would make no difference. If I practiced, I could walk a tightrope, whether I believed in tightrope walking or not.

Imagine this; Same scenario, but the tightrope is only a foot off the ground. Whether or not you believed you could walk across the rope, it's been done and you can do it, too.

I don't have to believe in any of the things I do each day in order for them to work. For someone to say, "This will only work if you believe in it," brings to mind the pixie dust from Peter Pan.

 

[Urban Prospector]

A bit of hair splitting but I said "would your belief in yourself make a difference?". Yes other humans can walk a tight rope but I'm relating it to you.Even 1 foot of the ground there's a sort of "leap of faith" involved that one can do it. Just you saying "it's been done and you can do it, too" is that belief or faith.If you were telling yourself "it's impossible to tightrope walk at any height, odds are it would be, for you, not others but you.

 

[ClonedSIM]

A bit of hair splitting but I said "would your belief in yourself make a difference?". Yes other humans can walk a tight rope but I'm relating it to you.Even 1 foot of the ground there's a sort of "leap of faith" involved that one can do it. Just you saying "it's been done and you can do it, too" is that belief or faith.If you were telling yourself "it's impossible to tightrope walk at any height, odds are it would be, for you, not others but you.

Ahh, but belief in oneself is not the issue at hand here. The question is the belief in dowsing.

Of course, in this particular instance, they are essentially interchangeable. If I were to say "I believe I can dowse," it's logical to assume that I believed in dowsing in the first place. Therein lies a conundrum, it seems.

 

[Urban Prospector]

Yup

 

[ivan salis]

fact -- read up on the meaning of it -- "a commonly held belief" -- thus once it was a "fact" that the world was flat-- be careful of which facts you belive in -- Ivan

 

[ClonedSIM]

fact -- read up on the meaning of it -- "a commonly held belief" -- thus once it was a "fact" that the world was flat-- be careful of which facts you belive in -- Ivan

Why do dowsers refer back to the whole "flat-earth" concept as some sort of proof that dowsing will someday be proven out scientifically?

Also, I'm curious where you got your definition of fact, because I found this:

"Generally, a fact is something that is the case, something that actually exists, or something that can be verified according to an established standard of evaluation."

Or, if you prefer:

" something that actually exists; reality; truth: "

How about one more?

"Knowledge or information based on real occurrences."

Where did you find "a commonly held belief?"

 

[ClonedSIM]

Therein lies a conundrum, it seems.

Yup! Only for the errononous assumptions from the mind of Aft. Enjoy your fantasy. Dell

Dell, I would love for you to show me where I've made an errononous assumption. I can only make assumptions, in fact, because you can't give me a straight answer or even one that makes sense.

And where is Aft coming from anyway? Can I call you Dellt?

 

[ivan salis]

type in "flat earth" you will find that at one time in history almost all people thought the earth was flat was so it was an accepted "fact" that the earth was flat in the middle ages --ie what we think is "fact" is indeed "fact" --thus it was accepted as the "truth" until proven totally wrong -- there is nobody today who would say the world is flat outside of a few folks in the loony bins. --- point being--- mankinds "veiws" on matters and subjects and what can and can not be done are constantly changing over time --- what would have been "witchcraft" 200 years ago is common place stuff today -- Ivan

 

[ClonedSIM]

type in "flat earth" you will find that at one time in history almost all people thought the earth was flat was so it was an accepted "fact" that the earth was flat in the middle ages --ie what we think is "fact" is indeed "fact" --thus it was accepted as the "truth" until proven totally wrong -- there is nobody today who would say the world is flat outside of a few folks in the loony bins. --- point being--- mankinds "veiws" on matters and subjects and what can and can not be done are constantly changing over time --- what would have been "witchcraft" 200 years ago is common place stuff today -- Ivan

Okay, so I guess this is my question.

Why is it that dowsers believe that dowsing is equilivent to the flat-earth belief in the way that someday dowsing will be proven right as the flat-earth theory was proven wrong?

Doesn't it make sense that the long held belief that dowsing works will be proven wrong, just as the "flat-earth" theory was proven wrong?

Science has taken the incorrect beliefs of the past and proven the opposite was true. Shouldn't this be the case for dowsing as well?

 

[Urban Prospector]

According to "an established standard of evaluation." the Earth at one time was factually flat. Few lived to argue otherwise.

 

[Urban Prospector]

" something that actually exists; reality; truth: "
"Knowledge or information based on real occurrences."

Because something hasn't been proven to you to your satisfaction doesn't make it untrue, just as a dowsers success doesn't prove it true. There are noted sucsesses,information based on real occurrences, that actually exist.Reality stranger then fiction.

 

[ClonedSIM]

According to "an established standard of evaluation." the Earth at one time was factually flat. Few lived to argue otherwise.

Oh, no argument here. But, since that old theory was proven to be incorrect, why can't the old theory of finding gold with coathangers be incorrect as well?

Doesn't it make more sense to believe that an old treasure-seeking method would be proven incorrect, just as so many other old beliefs were?

 

[Urban Prospector]

There were no coathangers.

Seriously tho there is no reason the old theory of finding gold with coathangers can't be incorrect. Just as there is no reason it can be incorrect based on the shape of the Earth.
The old theory of finding water and petroleum with a rod, staff, or Y'ed switch is very well substantiated however. If black gold then why not other valuebales such as gold.Missing persons livestock corpses and criminals have documented successful finds through divining.

 

[ivan salis]

only if you think it flawed to begin with does it seem flawed -- what you think is fact is to you --fact ---- just as the flat earth folks said "I know the earth is flat for a fact" -- if you disagree with me your a fool --burn him at the stake for heresy--

the same went for the "fact" the the solar system revolved around the earth -- to say otherwize could get you killed

in the old days thinking "outside the box" was often a death sentance

 

[aarthrj3811]

only if you think it flawed to begin with does it seem flawed -- what you think is fact is to you --fact ---- just as the flat earth folks said "I know the earth is flat for a fact" -- if you disagree with me your a fool --burn him at the stake for heresy—

Very good….I know Dowsing is a FACT. I prove it repeatedly to myself and others….I don’t really care if Science proves it. Why you ask…Because I don’t have a bunch of people finding the deep stuff before I get there. I like to check spots where the Metal Detectors have been and get what they missed and believe me they miss a lot of good stuff by a few inches….Art

 

[ClonedSIM]

only if you think it flawed to begin with does it seem flawed -- what you think is fact is to you --fact ---- just as the flat earth folks said "I know the earth is flat for a fact" -- if you disagree with me your a fool --burn him at the stake for heresy—

Very good….I know Dowsing is a FACT. I prove it repeatedly to myself and others….I don’t really care if Science proves it. Why you ask…Because I don’t have a bunch of people finding the deep stuff before I get there. I like to check spots where the Metal Detectors have been and get what they missed and believe me they miss a lot of good stuff by a few inches….Art

Why Art. You've told me many times you use a metal detector to pinpoint the locations of your treasures. Are you saying this isn't the case now?

 

[aarthrj3811]

Wrong again af ...I sometimes use a metal detector in my deeper holes so I can widen the hole if I am not digging straight down. Art

 

[ClonedSIM]

Wrong again af ...I sometimes use a metal detector in my deeper holes so I can widen the hole if I am not digging straight down. Art

Don't make me go back and find the posts, Art. You've told me directly more than once you use your rods to get you to an area then you break out the detector to "pinpoint" the coins and retrieve them.

And, pray tell, where have I been incorrect in the past?

 

[aarthrj3811]

And, pray tell, where have I been incorrect in the past?

That is funny…Art