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17 Tons of gold in New Mexico

Clayton there is nothing to admire, my ability to do the research while in the states was only possible due to my inability to do anything else. I did get to see some amazing places and things though, in that I feel blessed.

As for Nixon, well the watergate saga is the only time his name was associated with any treasure in NM and was specific in that the treasure was located on the whitesands missile base.
F.Lee Bailey claimed that with a chopper and 1/2 hour he could locate 200+ bars of gold on whitesands. of course he never did take that chopper ride and other than that which was mentioned during watergate there is no evidence to yet add another Presidents name to the 17 tons cache.
The only president who would in all likelyhood have had any dealings with the 17tons story would be Truman, he was a personal friend of George Luckey and Prentiss Moore. And I have shown evidence of them meeting with the president in 1951 this was 1 year before the grandjury hearing and 1 year after the group had met at Moores offices
http://www.trumanlibrary.org/calendar/main.php?currYear=1951&currMonth=9&currDay=4

The only other President who played a distant part was FDR who implimented the gold order.

I have also heard the theory about Nixon and misleading information. Here is my take on that, as you know I have writen you with the name of an employee which I will not mention here as is would not be right.
However I will say this, and it is a matter of fact and I would be happy for anyone to check this for themselves.

The Grand Jury hearings were held in 1952, there were 4 subpeonas issued in LA. there were no indictments. I have seen with my own 2 eyes the sealed box file for that hearing, it is not availiable for public viewing, the box has a seal on it which is unbroken and obviously very old.
When a Grand Jury hearing takes place it is behind closed doors, if no one is found guilty of a crime and there is no subsequent court case or any indictments issued that case remains privilaged and private.
The only persons with access to that file would be lawyers, and there is a great deal of legal paperwork and a court hearing before it can be released. That has not happened in this case since 1952.
I have also seen the 4 subpeonas, Klepper, Hougan, Nobel and Clews. And none for a mexican national in connection with this case within a 6 month period before and after september 1952.

As for the Hougen pushing the barrow claim, the only evidence I have is that of someone who worked with the group, I only have his statement, I do not have a photograph or video evidence of the event taking place.
However in support of that claim I have a newspaper article and court document that do indeed show that the group had leased that property from the father of the guy who told me about the barrow. (could these documents be construed as physical evidence?)
Further more I was given the name of the pilot who landed his stearman biplane at the location, and indeed there is an obvious overgrown runway on the property. I also checked out the pilot and the profile is perfect.
Walter F (Bud) Fountain owner of a crop spraying company and a stunt flyer, but not even his 450hp stearman could lift 1 and a half tons of gold at a time lol.

I am actually looking for some trustworthy people to carry out a search of the area I believe the gold is/was hidden in 1956, personally Id be happy with a single bar for posperity.


Blackfoot I saw that post you put up, greed seems the way of the world today, karma will bite them back, your honesty will pay off in the long run. good luck
 

Gary

With the Nixon take. At this point. We will just leave it where it is.
I really should not have brought that up. As for the man pushing the barrel
claim. I have no doubt someone did tell you that. The point I was making.
Simply was that almost any statement made. By you, me or anyone else.
can be made to seem to have a flaw in it. If a person wanted to push the point
enough.

There was also a son of a president that was interested in treasure hunting, and he
mentioned the 17 tons of gold, But, I don't know that he ever had the chance to search
for it. I did check your Truman link, and can't get it come up.

I wish you luck with your search. Like you, I also could use an investor. I have been to
my project site. And saw some things, that needed futher looking into. unfortunately
I had my brother with me at the time, And he became a little overwhelmed by the project.
I had to bring him back to Virginia. I think my site has good potential. I have the equipment
needed for the project. And the vehicles to get the job done. I need investors to help finance
the road trip and lodging. Looking at around three thousand dollar. If anyone is interested.
You can contact me at: OverLandDriver@aol.com 804-638-8651 Clayton Ramey

I want to add this: Don't invest in this or any other project of this type, unless you can afford
to lose the money. Not to say that you will. But, these type of projects are High Risk High Return.

Clayton..Roadquest
 

Thats correct Gary. Does anyone else have any information they would share with me on Alberti-o Terrazas?

Tiene mas cualquiera cualquier informacion en Alberti-o Terrazas
que ellos compartiran conmigo.

Roadquest
 

video removed




Chest high 4 feet? x 60 feet around... 17 tons of gold ingots would take up approx 1 cubic yard of space 3x3x3
17 tons of gold would be worth a bit over half a billion at todays prices.
20 billion dollars worth of gold would be 40 times the size of the 17 tons 40 cubic yards of gold :o :o
Don Leon Trabuco never did exist

But look on the bright side he only wants $20,000 from a single investor, so he can bring it out on a bike?

This is why its so hard to get investors Clayton, because of these scantless people.


PS sorry about the videos I dont know how to post them correctly
 

Gary, I want to let you know I am going to delete the video of the crack pot dude in the video.
You and I have work very hard on the research we have, I don't believe this nut has earned a place
among people that are trying to do this the right way, and not rip others off.

Do you have information to prove Leon Trabucu did not exists. There had to be a specific person or
group that made his charterer up. And if that's true. The creation of a person of that magnitude would
leave some kind of paper trail.

Clayton
 

Roadquest said:
Gary, I want to let you know I am going to delete the video of the crack pot dude in the video.
You and I have work very hard on the research we have, I don't believe this nut has earned a place
among people that are trying to do this the right way, and not rip others off.

Do you have information to prove Leon Trabucu did not exists. There had to be a specific person or
group that made his charterer up. And if that's true. The creation of a person of that magnitude would
leave some kind of paper trail.

Clayton
Click to expand...

Clayton you will find many Leon Trabucos in mexico, even today, as well as carlos sepulvedas, and rafael boregas. But I can assure you that you will not find any with the kind of wealth needed to have taken part in the 17 tons story. To be honest you are much better off looking in to them for yourself, that way you will know first hand.
Why was he made up? well the group who were trying to sell the gold knew full well the government were not going to part with $20 million. They had been advised to deliver the gold to the San Francisco mint on 2 ocassions during 1951 and 1952 you can find these records at the mint archives.
So the Mexican connection was made up to throw the scent.
There was in all likelyhood a good chance that the gold was Mexican in origin, and most likely wealth from the terrazas and others who lived during the unrest in mexico. My own theory is that Emil Holmdahl had located the hidden loot of Pancho Villa. he then involved aquaintances Hougen and Nobel, which is where things took a turn for the worse as far as the selling of the gold went.

It is not normal practice, but I would suggest researching the story backward. For the purpose of a good starting point I suggest the Grand Jury hearings in 1952.
From there you will find all the names of those involved, including those not mentioned in the published tellings of the story.
You will soon realise that there is not 1 piece of evidence prior to 1950, that is the date the Escrow account was set up.
But you will also learn that this was a serious attempt to sell $20 million worth of gold ingots to the US treasury.
When you have all the names the research becomes a lot easier and there are plenty of clues as to what went on.
I know the published stories have a great plot, they would make a facinating movie, but they are seriously flawed. Its best to ignore 95% of what is written in those accounts.
The guys involved were "business men" of thier time, some of them ruthless, murderous even!!!
Every one of them were American, all from California without exception, some with VERY powerful connections.
I will tell you there are 4 missing names from the published stories, again all Californians and all "business men" these men can be tied directly to the group with a court document.

I personally am not interested in finding out who owned the gold anymore, I have seen legal documents that have convinced me of its existence. Where it came from is of no consequence anymore. Whats more important is where it was/is stored.
I did post a thread on the forum which showed the depth of my research, I pulled the posts because I was asked to (I explained this to you in a PM)
You are absolutely right about the creation of Trabuco, there would indeed be a paper trail, even if it was only a birth or death certificate or even marriage, you will find many of them, but none worth anywhere near what these guys would have had to be worth.
 

Gary, Thanks for the advice on what to research. I have done my own research on Leon Trabuco.
The question I was asking was where is any physical evidence of Leon Trabuco being created.
Someone had to have the thought, " We will create this person that does not exist" and make up a
false story about the gold. OK, I'm sure something had to be put on paper, about this fictionalized person.

These people were intelligent, they would need to get every detail down pat. We can't find a birth citified
of trabuco, But, we can't seen to find any evidence of him being "create ''. I mean something on paper
that was written by his creator's. I would think this was to important to just talk about it. And not have a
drawn out plan.

You were right in pulling your research, not a good idea to put all that on the net.
There is very little in the published stories that should be taken seriously. My advice would
be to do your own research.

I get a little Leary when Pancho Villa is brought into this picture. That would put the gold outside
the United States.

Clayton
 

Good morning Peerless: You posted -->

My own theory is that Emil Holmdahl had located the hidden loot of Pancho Villa.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Perhaps, but apparently Pancho never had any. He was on a dole after the rev., and was given contracts for meat by the gov't. . His widow, Luz, was also on a dole from the gov't since she was destitute.

If he had had access to even a small part of this, he logically, would never have made his infamous raid on the Bank in Columbus, Nm., US, for operating funds.

I knew a former Capt of Pancho's that did hide enough weapons and explosives for a company plus of men in a cave on the Verde river for Pancho, then closed it up. The men were then dispersed.

I asked him why they were allowed to go free since they would sooner or later talk. The usual tech. was to eliminate them after. .He laughed, then said "Yes, Pancho knew this and counted on it, and their loyalty, to not to reveal where the cave was, but that it existed.

He told me that if the gov't knew that he had these weapons hidden, that they would listen to him, but without them, he would be ignored."

On the whole, I frankly do not believe that our infamous Pancho contributed in any way to the 17 tons of Gold.

Even today there are many searching for "the hidden gold" of Pancho in various parts of Mexico, none have had any success as far as I can find out..

Don Jose de La Mancha
 

Ok Clayton and RDT,

Leon Trabuco was "created" by the writers of the 17 tons story (published) where did they get their info from? well if they even bothered to do any research I would guess they asked the "searchers" who for obvious reasons may have given the names.

As for Pancho Villa,
Odo B stade who worked for villa as an arms dealer personally bought 14 million dollars worth of gold into the USA in exchange for weapons. http://www.theshriek.net/odo.01.html
Emil Holmdahl had acted in a similar role and had bought several millions into the USA.
There are 100s if not 1000s of reports of Villa looting from just about every availiable resource in Mexico including churches. He had held Terrazas Jnr for ransom and had recieved much in the way of gold in ransoms. All of this stuff is availiable from many sources.
Emil Holmdahl dedicated vast amounts of time hunting Villas treasure, which I am sure he had personal knowledge of. He had been a colonel of Villas and would have at least have known what Villa was looting.
In 1926 Holmdahl was hunting for Villas loot and had been arrested after Villas tomb had been violated and his head removed. Holmdahl was released after the intervention of some powerful friends in the USA Colonel A A King being one of them.
In 1933 Holmdahl is back in Mexico with a group, hunting Villas treasure, once again being backed by A A King. By 1937 Holmdahls search seems to come to an end, but low and behold a guy named Noss suddenly has found gold bars, Jewels, religious artifacts, and wells fargo boxes, and spanish colonial manuscripts, and armour.
Strange Villa had a record for stealing every single one of those items, and they are way to late to be from some of the people whos names have been associated to the VP story.
Any how Noss was shot dead in 1949, at which point our Californian friends get involved, which makes sense because they were aquainted with Holmdahl. By 1950 the meeting takes place in Moores office and in 1952 because they never delivered the gold to the mint, there is a grand jury hearing. The government were not stupid they knew where the gold had come from, and thats why Emil Holmdahl was questioned by the secret service.
The rest of what I have I can not release as it would surely compramise my site. who knows maybe you are right and its not Villas loot, but Villa had access to riches beyond belief. As for the raid on Columbus I dont even know that Villa was there, but there is more than one version of that story. One of which is that Villa was betrayed in an arms deal that involved gold bars and he was pissed about that, I dont know, I was not there.
As I said the original owners no longer concern me, I know the gold existed, and I believe I have a better than good site to begin a search.
 

Quote Roadquest: "I get a little Leary when Pancho Villa is brought into this picture. That would put the gold outside the United States."


Not if it was found by an American hunter and bought into the USA
 

This quote may be objective, but, you can not prove someone did not exist, you can prove they did.



Professor Morado of the university of mexico should be easy to find

Investment banker Rafael Borrega should be easy to find

Don Leon Trabuco wealthy cattle rancher gold miner should be easy to find

William C Elliott Utah resident (SLC) WW11 pilot, crop dusting company owner, stunt pilot, shot down over Germany should be easy to find

Evidence of a 240hp stearman biplane or cessna capable of being loaded with a full fuel tank, 2 passengers and 1 and a half tons of gold, and still be able to take off should be easy to find, because that would be a remarkable feat for the aircraft, not to mention that it could "glide" over a mesa at 25,000 feet.


Anyone finds any of these I would be interested to hear.

Also the names of anyone who was indicted in the case.
Anyone who never turned up for the grand jury hearings.
Any publication prior to 1950 that mentions this cache.
Any Mexican nationals name in conection with the story, other than those in the post 1950s stories.
Any evidence of any kind that appears prior to 1950.
 

Gary said " Leon Trabuco did not exist " If this is a statement of fact. Then there would need to be
some verified evidence to prove it.

If it is simply what someone believes, then so be it.

Clayton
 

Roadquest said:
Gary said " Leon Trabuco did not exist " If this is a statement of fact. Then there would need to be
some verified evidence to prove it.

If it is simply what someone believes, then so be it.

Clayton
Click to expand...

Clayton, Think about this logically. Or at least look at it this way. If there was "a wealthy cattleman, gold miner" from Chihauhau mexico, and his name was Don Leon Trabuco do you honestly believe there would be no record of him today?
The evidence you want exists, just look at the dates of the published stories, you will see they are all post 1950, you will also see that is the first time the mexican names are mentioned.
When it comes down to the factual evidence, they are not mentioned ever. Simply because they do not exist. Like I said the published stories would make a great movie.
I can not pretend to know why those writers decided to use those names, I have never spoke to the authors of those books/stories I have only read them.
But logic says those names were put out to mislead, we may just have to agree to disagree, simply because I can not prove someone did not exist, maybe someone can prove they did, would'nt that be something?

I do believe the names were made up, but to say it is simply what I believe would be wrong, I spent more hours, days, weeks than I care to think about trying to locate records of those people and I have failed to find any of them, and even people who speak spanish were unable to locate them.
So based on the fact that I had thier names, aprox ages, where they were from, roughly when they died, and thier career details not to mention the wealth they posessed, I find it hard to believe that no records are availiable, and therefor I figure its unlikely they existed.

Besides for me to be wrong, he has to exist right? so where is the evidence that proves my statement wrong?
It does not exist which kind of sends us round in circles.
 

Gary, I agree, that we can disagree on this. I'm not going to push this any futher. You don't have
to prove a thing to me. As, I don't have to prove a thing to you.
Doc Noss gold?

Clayton
 

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