17 Tons of gold in New Mexico

MesaBuddy....That old dude back in the 80's. that knew where the landing
strip and the trail the pickup truck used to drive fron the strip to the target site. I was wondering if he had any children ( I thinking if he was very old then he is not with us anymore being 27 some odd years ago.) that he told or showed where they were.

Just a thought, if we knew the old guys name. Should be easy to find his children.

Clayton Ramey...Roadquest
 

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Peerless,

Who knows why anybody does anything? I don't have any references stating that he did this because of that. I can just tell you that the map exists (in five parts, three of which were found).

It's possible that all five parts have been found, but by more than one group, and none of them sharing with anybody else.

Best-Mike
 

Just for S&G's, here's an email I received about nine years ago regarding this story. I can't endorse this theory either, but FYI, I know that a number of searchers are working this angle instead of the Trabuco red herring. Quien sabe?

Hi _____. You asked about the BIG LUE. ... My version of the LUE came about in 1934 when tons of Gold were brought into America allegedly from Mexico to gain a profit when the U.S.dollar was devalued in 1935. This alleged incident is called the Mexican Gold Contraband and this case was studied by the Federal Grand Jury. They dropped this case because they had no evidence to prosecute. How right they were, because Germany was responsible for the Gold Bullion flown into the U.S. from canada. The Ruse of Shiprock was designed to engulf the FBI and all other seekers. They still go there each year looking for Mexican Ghost bars. The German gold contraband brought in from Canada was successfully hidden on the land of a loyal German. The American Gold Act prevented the gold from being sold here and quite frankly the gold would have been removed from this country if it hadn't been for the untimely death of the loyal German that knew where the bullion was buried. It was he that designed the LUE as a pun to the FBI say: "Yankee, if we can't spend our gold in your country, then you find it!" Thus the birth of the LUE way bill. It was Germany's thought that the U.S. would pay for Hitler's World War 2. It didn't and the Germans had to abandon the bullion after searching for it unsucessfully. If the gold had been sold it would have ruined the American economy. We may have not been able to defend our selves nor participate against Germany. The LUE doesn't say how much, but I would assume 100 to 200 tons if Germany really wanted to criple the U.S. economy. You may find a copy of the Big LUE in Treasure Hunter Manuel #7 by Karl Von mueller on page 111. The LUE was designed to be utilized with the American one dollar bill. The FBI didn't know where to look for evidence because they were sitting on it! I love it! Notice the wavy line going through the column. This means turn me! Notice the two lines going through the column. This means turn me! Yes, the LUE is a three dimentional pun wheel. You may move all of the symbols anywhere you wish them to be to extract information. Had the U.S. purchased the German Gold, we probably wouldn't have been able to defend ourselves or participate against Germany. The Germans could have won the war which would have changed history. The LUE was an important U.S. case and the Germans were foiled just by untimely circumstances oblivious to us all. Thanks for asking _____.
 

Gullyum:" I have a thick skin, and don't mind being ribbed (Jose )"
~~~~~~~~

You neglected to mention your thick head, snicker, you are as bad as an Irishman, of which I am prime example.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Peerless my sharp Britlander friend, help me with my faulty math--- Following is only "approx".

17 tons Au. @ #2200 per ton = #37,400 @ 12 oz. per = 448,800 oz. @ $35 oz.= $i5,708,000 US Dollars? = 200 - 300 WW-2 aircraft.

While this is a considerable amount of money, especially in those days, it certainly would not have bankrupted the US, nor have done very much to finance Hitler. The Lue is another thing entirely.

It IS feasible that some extremely rich people in Mexico, could have done this.

As an example, Senor Terrazas owned practically all of Chihuahua. He was once asked by an arrogant American cattle buyer if he could deliver so many thousand yearlings on such a date. It is said that Senor Terrazas was quiet for a while in apparent deep thought, then having made up his mind, asked the Buyer "yes, but what color"?

People like this could easily have financed this as a lark.

Don Jose de La Mancha
 

Quote "Peerless my sharp Britlander friend, help me with my faulty math--- Following is only "approx".

17 tons Au. @ #2200 per ton = #37,400 @ 12 oz. per = 448,800 oz. @ $35 oz.= $i5,708,000 US Dollars? = 200 - 300 WW-2 aircraft.

While this is a considerable amount of money, especially in those days, it certainly would not have bankrupted the US, nor have done very much to finance Hitler. The Lue is another thing entirely."



Real, I am sure your math is beyond reproach, although I have never associated these two treasures together, and me personally I do not doubt that there were mexicans who could have had 17 tons of gold at their disposal. as for Britain and America and WW11 I absolutely refuse to be drawn. :D :D


Ps: your math seems good enough although the price of gold had been artificially risen to $35 an ounce by the American government to bolster the dollar, and since the bars were 33 kilo bars I have no idea if the weight was troy or not.
 

I have not read all this thread, but i can say the gold does exsist. in 1522 magellin set up a mine , they mined the mother load and stacked the gold in bars against the wall in the cave. in 1933 the cave was found starting the victoria peak legends. the bars where left till they dissapered a few years back. makes a good story.
 

Springfield, your email is intresting but it seems even more unlikely than the 17 tons story, imagine the logistics of moving upto 200 tons of gold. And then consider that we have to believe that one loyal german was responsible for hiding 200 tons.
I wonder how they would have moved up to 200 tons from Canada in 1934, by road across boarder? or by aircraft?.
the 17 tons story probably has its roots in some old truths, they have been twisted and contorted over the years and bare no resemblance to what really happened in 1933. Unraveling that mystery is the stuff of dreams to a treasure hunter, Imagine that!!! 17 tons of gold at todays prices is worth over $760,000.000
I have not done the math but 200 tons would be over $8 billion, why gzzzz even Real could retire on that :D :D :D
 

GEEZE Peerless,

why gzzzz even Real could retire on that
~~~~~~~~
that would depend upon the going price for sexy grape peelers and hammock swingers and your schedule. Gollyum would need a dozen just for himself....

Friends can be expensive snicker
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
had been artificially risen to $35 an ounce by the American government to bolster the dollar,
~~~~~~~~~
This is precisely how they intended to profit, they purchased at approx. $20 then intended to sell at what ever the new US price would be. As it turned out, it was $35.

Although I am still not too clear on why it wasn't sold prior to Roosevelt's order. I must read the entire story and keep big mouth shut until I know detail,s sigh
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I have no idea if the weight was troy or not.

~~~~~~~~
I believe that all gold was sold by the Troy weight, and most used the metric system...

Don Jose de La Mancha
 

Real de Tayopa said:
Although I am still not too clear on why it wasn't sold prior to Roosevelt's order. I must read the entire story and keep big mouth shut until I know detail,s sigh
Click to expand...

From what I recall, the US Gov. knew the gold was brought into the US from Mexico, and they stonewalled, knowing they couldn't take it back to Mexico for fear of being caught. I think it was an intentional ploy to try and get the gold for free by confiscating it. It was (and probably still is) illegal to take gold out of Mexico to sell. Once the negotiations had begun, they knew the Government (US) would be closely watching everybody concerned. No way to safely take it back across the border.

Best-Mike
 

There is another Treasure site on the internet that has the full low down on the Lue version of this treasure. This guy has been working this version for quite a while. Interesting, I just don't buy into it.

To each his own. Who knows ???


Clayton Ramey...Roadquest
 

Peerless67 said:
Springfield, your email is intresting but it seems even more unlikely than the 17 tons story, imagine the logistics of moving upto 200 tons of gold. And then consider that we have to believe that one loyal german was responsible for hiding 200 tons.
I wonder how they would have moved up to 200 tons from Canada in 1934, by road across boarder? or by aircraft?.
the 17 tons story probably has its roots in some old truths, they have been twisted and contorted over the years and bare no resemblance to what really happened in 1933. Unraveling that mystery is the stuff of dreams to a treasure hunter, Imagine that!!! 17 tons of gold at todays prices is worth over $760,000.000
I have not done the math but 200 tons would be over $8 billion, why gzzzz even Real could retire on that :D :D :D
Click to expand...

P, you've made some astute observations. If you were to move 17 tons, 200 tons or 50 pounds of gold in 1933, from Mexico, Canada or Albuquerque to Four Corners, why would you fly it instead of drive it? The reliability, carrying capacity, range and availability of fuel for aircraft in the 1930's all seem to lower one's odds of a safe transfer, especially considering multiple trips would be required. Not impossible, but riskier than necessary. Trucks can have problems too, of course, but I'd rather pull off to the side of the road if I had engine problems rather than look for a place to land a plane. If it were my gold, I'd be minimizing the risks. Border crossing problems by road? Don't be silly. Canada had totally open borders then and Mexico's border crossing would have been no problem either, even today. Only stupid or naive people have border crossing problems - anyone with these kinds of assets would not have been stupid.

One loyal German may have been responsible for hiding the loot, but he would have obviously needed a lot of help. This version of the story often mentions a cave in the Four Corners area. An aquaintenance of mine has information that places said cave on the Arizona side.

That said, let me make it clear I don't buy either the Mexican or Canadian version of this event as we know them. As you said, the "story probably has its roots in some old truths, they have been twisted and contorted over the years and bare no resemblance to what really happened in 1933." This is exactly the point I've been trying to make all along. Like so many other well-known and not so well-known treasure stories, this legend is disinformation disguising a real event/cache somewhere in the Four Corners area. The disinformation, no matter how convincing, is designed to keep searchers away from the true location of the prize.
 

i AM STARTING TO QUESTION IF THE GOLD HAS BEEN TAKEN FROM THE MINE, WHERE IT WAS ORIGINALY PLACED BY THE SPANISH MINERS.HMMM
 

Friends, of course this legend is utter fiction, made up to frighten small children, and all those tales of lost mines and buried treasures are the same, pure fiction, why there is no lost treasure whatsoever, anywhere - you can all throw away your metal detectors (in my general direction, I will put them out to pasture hee hee) and spend your time and money on some other pursuit - and if you should happen to see me out in the hills somewhere digging in the ground, just dismiss it as some old addled victim of "gold fever" - after all we all know that the "old timers got it all"! (haha ;D :D ;))

Good luck and good hunting to you all, I hope you find the treasures that you seek.

Oroblanco
 

Oroblanco said:
Friends, of course this legend is utter fiction, made up to frighten small children, and all those tales of lost mines and buried treasures are the same, pure fiction, why there is no lost treasure whatsoever, anywhere - you can all throw away your metal detectors (in my general direction, I will put them out to pasture hee hee) and spend your time and money on some other pursuit - and if you should happen to see me out in the hills somewhere digging in the ground, just dismiss it as some old addled victim of "gold fever" - after all we all know that the "old timers got it all"! (haha ;D :D ;))

Good luck and good hunting to you all, I hope you find the treasures that you seek.

Oroblanco
Click to expand...

OK, we'll assume you've taken up golf and you're merely looking for your Titleist somewhere in the rough.
 

Springfield,

" If it were my gold, I'd be minimizing the risks. "

And so would anyone else. That gold, if it ever existed, never came into the USA.
 

Don Jose de La Mancha, Mi amigo bueno oir de usted.
I have my equipment together now. Nothing fancy, Just the tools needed to get the job done.
I have no big elaborate plains, just going to the target site, and meet up with my friend Ed. out there.
Spend about a week searching the area.
I know you are joking, but someone with you experience would be welcome to join us in the search.
Only thing stopping me from going now is the gas, it's a 2000 mile trip for me.

Oh ya, after thinking about what John Dean ( Watergate ) had to say about this treasure. I think I will
not start another thread, until I follow tru on this search.

luego...Roadquest
 

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