Willie L Douthit

Gully, you posted -->He was also one of those people with innate intelligence which allowed him to grasp the logic of a subject

That is my personal problem and cross. In school I got so bored with the classes that my grades bottomed, since the tests were based on the daily lessons, I had an almost a perfect series of "D's" with the exception of one "C" I think that the teacher kinda liked me. She was cute, and always wore short dresses. She would perch on her desk while giving German lessons, me sitting in front and being a red blooded Yankee youth -------:censored:

They practically kicked me out by Shanghaing me into the Us Navy. During my service, I was offered every Naval course including a couple of years of Radio electronics

.In other words I can quickly grasp the essentials then become bored with the details. 'My MAJOR fault', one of many.

Soooo yes Golly,I can sympathize with willy and see his short comiings.since they are reflected in me.

But that doesn't change my thinking on Willy's book.

I hope to see El Senior Crow's magnificent work on the best sellers shelves.
 

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Garry, I stopped by the residence. It is less than 1400 sq. feet and is appraised at about $450,000, not high for the Rancho Bernardo area. If he was hiding his wealth he did a good job. In that area he would NOT have raised any eyebrows. Back in the 70s, that property would have probably been in the $40K plus range. Thanks for your work.
Bob
PS...The current owners moved into the house in the late 1990s and never heard of Laurance Foreman.
 

JudyH said:
:coffee2: The plot thickens.....

Apparently, our Miss Wells was a direct descendant of A very important original Puritan Pioneer family of The Colonies. Mary was a direct descendant of Gov. Thomas Welles, one of the original Founders of Hartford, Connecticut.

Thomas Welles is the only man in Connecticut's history to hold all four top offices: Governor, Deputy Governor, Treasurer, and Secretary. In 1639, he was elected as the first Treasurer of the Colony of Connecticut, and from 1640–1649 served as the Colony's Secretary. In this capacity, he transcribed the Fundamental Orders of Connecticut into the Official Colony Records on 14 January 1638. This Document was the first written Constitution in North America.

The Welles/Wells Family Lineage is literally a Who's Who of important people.....

* Gideon Welles, the United States Secretary of the Navy 1861–1869, best friend and right Hand of President Abraham Lincoln.
* Sumner Welles, U.S. Undersecretary of State, 1937–1943.
* Daniel H. Wells, was an apostle of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church) and the third mayor of Salt Lake City, Utah Territory, United States.
* Henry Wells, founder of the American Express Company, Wells Fargo & Company and Wells College, a nationally recognized private coeducational liberal arts college located in Aurora, Cayuga County, New York, on the eastern shore of Cayuga Lake.
* Wilford Woodruff, the fourth president of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church) from 1889 until his death in 1898.
* William Welles Hollister, a Californian rancher, entrepreneur and founder of Hollister, California.

[ And just for you Conspiracy Theorist, when President Lincoln lay shot and dying.....Gideon Wells was the person they called to his side. The Welles family was also connected to the Roosevelts. A cousin of Sumner Welles married James "Rosy" Roosevelt, Jr., half brother of future President Franklin D. Roosevelt (FDR). At the age of 10, Welles was entered in Miss Kearny's Day School for Boys in New York City. In September 1904, he entered Groton School in Massachusetts, where he remained for six years. There he roomed with the brother of Eleanor Roosevelt. He served as a page at Franklin D. Roosevelt's wedding to Eleanor in March 1905 at the age of 12. Sumner Welles then went on to become President Roosevelt's U.S. Undersecretary of State, 1937–1943.]

This is just a small sampling of a list that is awe inspiring in it's entirety. It also includes some surprising contemporary figures such as former President Gerald Ford and former First Lady Nancy Reagan.

Miss Mary Wells came from a long line of wealthy and important people....her own family originally moving to Orange, CA to establish a fruit orchard, then moving to Los Angeles with other business endeavors. But the only thing of note I could find on Miss Mary herself was her membership in the National Society of Daughters of the American Revolution. Her brother Henry S. Wells, who also lived in the family residence, lists his occupation on his 1917 Draft Registration as "Bank Clerk". Was he a clerk in his Uncle Henry's Wells Fargo company?

In my brief research of the California branches of the Wells tree, I found they were very much involved in Banking and Land Acquisition/Developement. A very influential, early California family.

All considered....I have to ask....how in the world did Willie Douthit aka Laurence Foreman, a poor uneducated fella running from his captors in New Mexico, end up married into this family?

What is missing from this story? :icon_scratch:

:coffee2::coffee2::coffee2:
Click to expand...

Girls love a bad boy. :)
 

JudyH said:
Indeed. 8-)

Miss Mary..... still unmarried at age 43 and cozily ensconced in the family home with brother and sister while reveling in the patriotism of her well connected ancestors(DAR)..... was by all appearances a spinster. Not exactly prime material for marriage to a poor, uneducated kitchen helper. :icon_scratch:

Gotta be missing something here.....
Click to expand...

Some excellent research JudyH

I suppose there is two scenarios either he or her saw it as ticket to easy street or they were just too lonely people who grew to love one another?

However all this information gives us a wonderful deeper insight into Willie Douthit the person. She may of been the driving force behind him to changing his name and his life? See what good women can do with a raggedy vagabond?:laughing7:

Crow
 

Judy, maybe she got tired of being celibate and decided to do some slumming! lol
 

Judy,

Just returned from Thanksgiving travel and it looks like there is quite a bit to digest on the forum.

I was able to find Mary and Laurence listed in a California DAR Genealogical Records Committee Index but no details on how Mary ties her ancestry to an American Revolution patriot. Are there any links I should be looking for?

As far as the discrepancies in the documents, the only way to fill in the blanks would be to speculate and I’m hesitant to start down that road. (Why was Laurence living at a different address when he married? Why does Mary list her age as several years younger on the marriage license and in the 1940 census? Why does Laurence indicate this is his first marriage on the marriage certificate yet in the 1940 census he is listed as divorced? Etc)

I was reviewing the 1940 Census for Mary Wells this morning and I finally put 2 and 2 together and identified Mary and Florence’s boarder as our Laurence Foreman [Indexed as Lawrence Farham]. I have no idea why it took so long! If anyone has access to ancestry it’s an interesting image. The age for Laurence is off but I’m sure it is him! The census lists Laurence’s education as 4 years of high school and his marital status as divorced. (Not a bad education for the 1920's)

A lot of people keep repeating that Willie experienced a poor and uneducated childhood. Is this just a theme that has become fact after continued repeating or is there actual evidence that this was indeed the case?

All,

I did have an e-mail on my return regarding my request for a search for Mary and Laurence’s obituaries. That appears to be a dead-end for the time being. I’ll paste in a portion of the response just in case someone else is trying to locate the obits.

San Diego Genealogical Society.

I (Peter Steelquist, San Diego Genealogical Society) went to the San Diego City Public Library to lookup your obituary requests for Lawrence and Mary Foreman. I checked the San Diego Union newspaper microfilm in both the obituary section and the 'Death & Burial' notices in the classified ad section. I searched daily for ten days after the date of death. I also checked the CD ROM Index. This is the only major newspaper that covers the entire county (which is about the size of the state of Connecticut). In addition, I checked some online subscription obituary databases.

Sorry to report that I did not find a printed obituary for either of them. It could be that there was no one to provide information to the newspaper or funeral home to have an obituary published. Then again, many deaths just never get reported or the families do not want a public notice. Also, by this time, the newspaper was charging substantial fees to publish obituaries and death notices and many were never submitted (some days there were none).

I suspect the probate records for Mary and Laurence will probably be the best chance for success in getting a handle on some more of their background. Everything else may add up to a lot of speculation.

Garry
 

People often lie about their age, especially back in those days. She may have lied to get Willie to marry her, and had to put the age she lied about on the marriage documents or she would have been found out by Willie.
 

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JudyH said:
Indeed. 8-)

Miss Mary..... still unmarried at age 43 and cozily ensconced in the family home with brother and sister while reveling in the patriotism of her well connected ancestors(DAR)..... was by all appearances a spinster. Not exactly prime material for marriage to a poor, uneducated kitchen helper. :icon_scratch:

Gotta be missing something here.....
Click to expand...

The 1940 census has Larry, 32, earning $960/year (about $33,000 in today's gold equivalent) - not a bad income for 1939, when the US was still stuck in the Depression. Mary and her sister had zero earnings, and they had taken in a lodger - Larry - maybe to help make ends meet. I wonder if by 1940 the Wells sisters still had access to the family money, or if it was even still intact. Their father, who presumably inherited part of the original family fortune, had been dead for nearly 20 years. If the money was in stocks and bonds, the sisters could have lost their inheritance during the Depression. It sounds plausible that Larry rented a room from Mary in 1939, fell in love and married her. Simple as that.

By the way, Minnie J Weeks, Larry's later investment partner, was 52 and married at the 1940 census (20 years older than Larry) and was lodging with several others. Her husband was unlisted - possibly in the military (a bit old)? Her income was $400, ($14,000 today), which wasn't a lot.

Based on this, it seems fair to speculate that the money came from Larry, not the women.
 

Remember,

read Willie's Book. Even though he may not have had much formal education, he was a sharp guy that had the ability to grasp concepts many today can't.

Also, being a good old country boy, he probably had a good line of $hit with him. Willie said himself that he knew he talked too much.

Mike
 

JudyH said:
Read the book, Darlin'.....gonna have to side with Tayoper on this one. There was a lot of that type info available, and very popular at the time. Our Willie was obviously an avid reader...and no doubt he was able to grasp the concepts presented in the literature of the day.

Uneducated does not necessarily mean Unintelligent.

And he's not the only one with a line of BS........... :whip2: :laughing7: :-*
Click to expand...

I only use my superpowers for good not evil.
 

JudyH said:
quote_icon.png
Originally Posted by sdcfia
By the way, Minnie J Weeks, Larry's later investment partner, was 52 and married at the 1940 census (20 years older than Larry) and was lodging with several others. Her husband was unlisted - possibly in the military (a bit old)? Her income was $400, ($14,000 today), which wasn't a lot.



That was the same conclusion I came to, only I also noticed a Ward listed among the other lodgers....

Willie L Douthit



quote_icon.png
Originally Posted by sdcfia
Based on this, it seems fair to speculate that the money came from Larry, not the women.


I have to agree, but where and how did he make it....that appears to be the big question.
Click to expand...

Names are often significant. We've already got three "treasure biggies" in this drama - Reynolds, Ward and Starr.One of the Caballo stories has Buster Ward as Willie's cousin. We haven't looked too closely at Buster yet, but he was into the New Mexico story up to his eyeballs too. The Ward under Minnie's roof was 60 at the time of the census roles, as I remember. Willie (Larry) first lived with his father Ian (who had also relocated from New Mexico) when he got to LA in the 1930s. Maybe the Ward side of the clan was already there too. How Minnie fits into this is anybody's guess at this time.

Where and how did Larry make it? Well, it seems he may have lugged it with him from New Mexico, if we can accept the rumors we've been given. As Mike said, and I agree, Willie-Larry can be viewed as a calculating and intelligent person, likely quite capable and patient - enough to establish himself, set up a history and become a solid citizen. He seems to have done an excellent job of smoke-screening his past. That said, I echo some of your earlier reservations, "There must be more to this than meets the eye."
 

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Sdcfia wrote: “Based on this, it seems fair to speculate that the money came from Larry, not the women.”

I think a case might be made that this may have been what was going on.

In the 1930 Census Florence (41) and Mary A (31) were living at 334 1/2 West 33rd Street and Florence was listed as the owner of the property and it is valued at $10,000. They are not working.

By 1940 they were still living at the same address but now they are paying $30 a month rent. If this is all correct, something has changed during the depression years. They may have fallen on hard times. Since it appears that neither ever worked, It might make sense to hook up with a guy with a steady job?

I have quite a bit on the Wells family and I will try to get around to posting some of that in the next few days.

Garry
 

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOH! NICE ONE!
 

Nobody said:
<cut>
sdcfia

I like how you are trying to read between the lines of Willie's book.
Click to expand...

The more we learn about Willie, the more I'm beginning to suspect that everything is smoke and mirrors with this person - especially his Caballo exploits, whatever the heck they were. Here's a guy described in the lore as a young (possibly teenage) drifter who happens to stumble onto some arcane chart that he follows to a cave full of gold bars, then escapes a couple harrowing encounters with torturing kidnappers, collects some bullion, changes his name and lands in LA. But not before he jumpstarts Doc Noss's own brand of weirdness before he left New Mexico. Or maybe it was Reynolds with the map and Willie killed him. Or so the stories say - choose your poison.

Then Larry (nee Willie), former star of a Chuck Norris movie in New Mexico, changes his personna to Detective Columbo and lays low for ten years while he becomes respectable, allegedly returning to New Mexico as required to refill the treasure chest. Late in life, he publishes an L. Ron Hubbard-type of book talking about aliens, gold and New Mexico, just for S&G. Paraphrasing your apparent new friend Judy H, "Something is wrong here". I agree. For one thing, I'm thinking that we really don't have clue one about what really happened in the Caballos.
 

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