Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp
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G'd evening Gully:m A good thought, but I don't think that he was retrieving any bars. Just a few would have meant a more comfortable life style, while keeping his Hospital kitchen helper status.
Willie L Douthit
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gollum
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Jose,
There are many stories from people that knew Willie that saw him come and go from the area over the years.
Also, if the $3.5 million estate is correct, then he would have to have taken a bunch of gold (especially since he didn't work from about 1945 until his death in 1998).
..... also, Forest Lawn Estates is not a cheap place to be buried either.
Mike
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I want to know where he lived. Would that be the Assessor's office? What info would I get from an obit?
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Bob,
This is an address I have for Laurence in San Diego. One problem is that I don't know the date of the record. Nice Neighborhood?
The obituary might have his relatives named (Heirs to his estate) and perhaps a bit of personal history if he was somewhat prominent.
As far as where he lived in San Diego and how long he lived there could be checked at a major library where they might have old Telephone Books and City Directories. Those that would cover the years between 1974 and 1998. They might be on the shelves or on microfilm which would require viewing. (I didn't mean that the only directories available were those I referenced, just that the were the only ones online.)
Assessor records that I have used are usually pretty recent and they are online. If you wanted to dig into tax records not online, I suspect it would be a real pain and you wouldn't be very popular at the Assessor's office.
Garry
This is an address I have for Laurence in San Diego. One problem is that I don't know the date of the record. Nice Neighborhood?
| Name: | Lawrence W Foreman |
|---|---|
| Birth Date: | 27 Mar 1908 |
| Address: | 16555 Bernardo Oaks Dr, San Diego, CA, 92128-2834 |
The obituary might have his relatives named (Heirs to his estate) and perhaps a bit of personal history if he was somewhat prominent.
As far as where he lived in San Diego and how long he lived there could be checked at a major library where they might have old Telephone Books and City Directories. Those that would cover the years between 1974 and 1998. They might be on the shelves or on microfilm which would require viewing. (I didn't mean that the only directories available were those I referenced, just that the were the only ones online.)
Assessor records that I have used are usually pretty recent and they are online. If you wanted to dig into tax records not online, I suspect it would be a real pain and you wouldn't be very popular at the Assessor's office.
Garry
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After reading that book, its obvious our Willie here was kookoo for cocoa puffs!
Crow
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Matt with all famous treasure legends there are always people wants their 15 seconds of fame some how being associated with such stories. Some times its really hard to know a persons motives. Perhaps Willie having been once his old stomping ground may of intentionally associated himself with Doc for notoriety?
I suspect Doc story a similar case like Roxas case in Philippines family and friends and friends or friend became hangers on trying to get on the bandwagon after the main person of the story is dead.
Crow
I suspect Doc story a similar case like Roxas case in Philippines family and friends and friends or friend became hangers on trying to get on the bandwagon after the main person of the story is dead.
Crow
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UncleMatt
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Hmmm, so if a person was working as a hospital kitchen helper to make ends meet, how exactly would they be able to afford to "self publish" a book in 1970? Back then it took money to publish a book, there was no internet or cheap ways to publish books. So if you were dead broke and working as a menial laborer, how would you afford that?
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UncleMatt
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With regard to Willie's mental state, there seems to be a lot of that sort of thing in the treasure hunting community. Now I myself am totally sane ( 
), but people with mindsets like Willie's are all too common in the treasure hunting world. Where delusions, status seeking behaviors, paranoia, and various other mental deficiencies, seem to be run of the mill. The idea that treasure is just waiting to be found strikes mostly at those who are least able to resist such tempting thoughts and suggestions...
The hard part is gleaning any reality based information from the musings of people with those challenges.
), but people with mindsets like Willie's are all too common in the treasure hunting world. Where delusions, status seeking behaviors, paranoia, and various other mental deficiencies, seem to be run of the mill. The idea that treasure is just waiting to be found strikes mostly at those who are least able to resist such tempting thoughts and suggestions...The hard part is gleaning any reality based information from the musings of people with those challenges.
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I did want to offer some thoughts on Laurence’s “Passport to Eternity” book.
My thoughts echo those of Matt about the effort of publishing a book in 1970. It was not a typical undertaking for your average Joe. The book is certainly not professionally written and it reads like something most of us would write but when I look at his various takes on the multiple topics, it’s not something I believe that he could have written off the top of his head. In the book he frequently refers to going to the library to research various subjects. I believe he probably did a lot of research in putting the final product together.
What I can’t tell from the cover picture is whether it was a hard back with a dust cover or a simpler spiral bound creation. If it is a hardback I’m even more impressed.
He apparently worked on the book for several years?
He seems to have an obsession with food?
He tries to portray himself as being cute?
He does offer several technical theories that sound partially plausible?
I doubt the book was a financial success and he recovered the money that he invested in publishing it but there may be a legion of potential customers out there who don’t dismiss the possibility of alien visitors.
If Laurence was trying to write a science fiction book, I don’t think he did too bad a job for an amateur author. It’s a creative story.
If he was writing the book to convince people that he actual experienced the events, he may have been partially successful. The individual associated with the web page seems to offer the possibility that he believed it could have happened the way Laurence told it. I’m sure there are others of the same ilk.
Heck, he could have been writing a tongue in cheek, humorous book? If so, he didn’t have my sides splitting with laughter but then I have a different sense of humor.
Surmising that the writing and publication of this book is an indication of significant wealth would be questionable in my eyes.
I do believe the book adds another small piece of the puzzle that helps us to know Willie a bit better.
Garry
sdcfia
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I find the Foreman book to be somehow significant in the Willie story, if not outright puzzling. Remember, we're talking about the man around whom most of the Caballo rumors originate, so this book ought to offer some sort of insight into him. The subject matter is obviously controversial if not bizarre. Foreman was ostensibly a very cautious man, if what we think we know about him is true. So before labeling him as a kook, we might wonder if there is a method to his madness in this book. Too bad he passed before someone could have asked him about it, such as during that YouTube piece.
The first question for me is why? Why did he write this book? It's self-published with, apparently, very few copies ever having been sold. Foreman never attempted to distribute the book, but sold it directly from either his home or a rock shop he owned somewhere in CA. You can't find a copy for less than $100 today. According to one man who read it in 1975 and wanted a copy for himself, he spent four years trying to find Foreman, finally locating his phone number in the library. The man was invited to Foreman's home in Rancho Bernardo, CA to buy a copy. This book buyer's brother-in-law later also wanted a copy, but Foreman returned the second man's money and refused him a copy when he found out that the man apparently regarded the book as mere science fiction. Again we see a type of caution here - no overt effort to draw attention to himself.
What was Foreman's purpose with this book? Some possibilities off the top of my head: 1. It was a pure made-up science fiction story written as a sort of amusement to himself. 2. It was a true factual memoir recounting things he believed actually happened to him. 3. It was written late in his life as a catharsis dealing with his life experiences - a confession of sorts presented in a form not dealing directly with his experiences, but shrouded in a story.
No. 1 doesn't fit, especially hearing about the book buyer who did feel it was a science fiction story and was refused a copy. No. 2 is tough to swallow, but similar to many other accounts of superhuman contacts that are generally denied by society as either delusion or hoax. Let's not go there. No. 3 has possibilities.
The book is filled with a surprising amount of technical and scientific material, some familiar, some controversial - but an indication that Foreman was well-read and no dummy. Bits of mythology and ancient civilizations are thrown in, and as the book progresses, there is a growing emphasis with law and morality. Since we're dealing with Willie Douhthit here, I took note of the following possibly telling statements in the book. The book begins with Larry feeling uneasy about people watching him even though his taxes have been paid, and that he enjoyed prospecting in the desert. Later, he several times asks his "mentor", who was part of a hidden group of "elites" about where he might find gold. Later, he returned to New Mexico to rendezvous with his elites and their superiors. On page 31 is that strange reference to "his lodge degrees" - a clear Masonic reference. (That's a threefer: Doc in a Masonic cemetery, Buster in a Masonic hospital and now, by his own admission, Willie in the secret organization. It is what it is.) Without too much imagination required, one can certainly tie these red flags together and link the mild-mannered CA Larry Foreman with a younger Willie Douhthit and a mysterious gold event in New Mexico. I see this book as a sort of a costumed admission by Larry (Willie) that he had secret dealings with superiors in his past in New Mexico, with gold somehow being involved, and that later in his life, he wanted to tell his story, but not directly. This would not be the first time and old man sort of came clean about a mysterious gold event in his youth.
I don't think Larry was nuts. I think he was clever.
The first question for me is why? Why did he write this book? It's self-published with, apparently, very few copies ever having been sold. Foreman never attempted to distribute the book, but sold it directly from either his home or a rock shop he owned somewhere in CA. You can't find a copy for less than $100 today. According to one man who read it in 1975 and wanted a copy for himself, he spent four years trying to find Foreman, finally locating his phone number in the library. The man was invited to Foreman's home in Rancho Bernardo, CA to buy a copy. This book buyer's brother-in-law later also wanted a copy, but Foreman returned the second man's money and refused him a copy when he found out that the man apparently regarded the book as mere science fiction. Again we see a type of caution here - no overt effort to draw attention to himself.
What was Foreman's purpose with this book? Some possibilities off the top of my head: 1. It was a pure made-up science fiction story written as a sort of amusement to himself. 2. It was a true factual memoir recounting things he believed actually happened to him. 3. It was written late in his life as a catharsis dealing with his life experiences - a confession of sorts presented in a form not dealing directly with his experiences, but shrouded in a story.
No. 1 doesn't fit, especially hearing about the book buyer who did feel it was a science fiction story and was refused a copy. No. 2 is tough to swallow, but similar to many other accounts of superhuman contacts that are generally denied by society as either delusion or hoax. Let's not go there. No. 3 has possibilities.
The book is filled with a surprising amount of technical and scientific material, some familiar, some controversial - but an indication that Foreman was well-read and no dummy. Bits of mythology and ancient civilizations are thrown in, and as the book progresses, there is a growing emphasis with law and morality. Since we're dealing with Willie Douhthit here, I took note of the following possibly telling statements in the book. The book begins with Larry feeling uneasy about people watching him even though his taxes have been paid, and that he enjoyed prospecting in the desert. Later, he several times asks his "mentor", who was part of a hidden group of "elites" about where he might find gold. Later, he returned to New Mexico to rendezvous with his elites and their superiors. On page 31 is that strange reference to "his lodge degrees" - a clear Masonic reference. (That's a threefer: Doc in a Masonic cemetery, Buster in a Masonic hospital and now, by his own admission, Willie in the secret organization. It is what it is.) Without too much imagination required, one can certainly tie these red flags together and link the mild-mannered CA Larry Foreman with a younger Willie Douhthit and a mysterious gold event in New Mexico. I see this book as a sort of a costumed admission by Larry (Willie) that he had secret dealings with superiors in his past in New Mexico, with gold somehow being involved, and that later in his life, he wanted to tell his story, but not directly. This would not be the first time and old man sort of came clean about a mysterious gold event in his youth.
I don't think Larry was nuts. I think he was clever.
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UncleMatt
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Some of the craziest people I know are also the most brilliant and educated.
Here is a joke to illustrate my point: A guy is driving along a deserted road, and his wheel comes off the hub. He pulls over next to a grassy area surrounded by a fence, with people on the other side. He sees a sign nearby that says its a mental institution for the criminally insane. He shrugs, and starts addressing replacing his tire. He sees that all the lug nuts got tossed off the hub when the wheel came off, and he stands pondering how he will attach the spare tire to the hub. One of the mental patients standing near the fence yells out, "Just take one lugnut from all of the other wheels to hold it on until you get to a gas station". The car owner grins, and realizes this is the perfect solution. He does as the mental patient suggested, and then walks over to the fence. "Hey", he says "You seem way too smart to be in a place like this!" The mental patient smiles and says "I may be crazy, but I'm not stupid"....
Here is a joke to illustrate my point: A guy is driving along a deserted road, and his wheel comes off the hub. He pulls over next to a grassy area surrounded by a fence, with people on the other side. He sees a sign nearby that says its a mental institution for the criminally insane. He shrugs, and starts addressing replacing his tire. He sees that all the lug nuts got tossed off the hub when the wheel came off, and he stands pondering how he will attach the spare tire to the hub. One of the mental patients standing near the fence yells out, "Just take one lugnut from all of the other wheels to hold it on until you get to a gas station". The car owner grins, and realizes this is the perfect solution. He does as the mental patient suggested, and then walks over to the fence. "Hey", he says "You seem way too smart to be in a place like this!" The mental patient smiles and says "I may be crazy, but I'm not stupid"....
UncleMatt
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It will take a lot more than assumption about the mental meanderings of Willie in nutjob book to convince me that Masons were involved in any way with Willie, or his reputed gold caching activities.
Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp
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You will of course excuse ny posting on Willie, but most of the materiel that he wrote about was in the
Borderland Sciences Research Catalog (Powered by CubeCart)
I was using them to investigate the paranormal, and they had fascinating dowsing experiences and tests
They covered the hollow earth and other things that are in his book, particularly aliens, etc., I have no idea how much he may have copied or was his entirely, but ------ but the willie described in the early files was not too educated.or intelligent sides working as a kitchen helper, which means scrubbing pots, pans and dishes. ??.
I hope that I am not doing him an injustice, but that is my impression.
P.S. Publishing a book in youe own name is an excellentway to rmain anom.
Borderland Sciences Research Catalog (Powered by CubeCart)
I was using them to investigate the paranormal, and they had fascinating dowsing experiences and tests
They covered the hollow earth and other things that are in his book, particularly aliens, etc., I have no idea how much he may have copied or was his entirely, but ------ but the willie described in the early files was not too educated.or intelligent sides working as a kitchen helper, which means scrubbing pots, pans and dishes. ??.
I hope that I am not doing him an injustice, but that is my impression.
P.S. Publishing a book in youe own name is an excellentway to rmain anom.
gollum
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And......IF this is the same Laurence W. Foreman (Willie).....where did he obtain the 7 Grand to purchase this piece of property? In 1957 that was a lot of dinero.....
http://archives.slc.ca.gov/Meeting_Summaries/1958_Documents/07-25-58/Items/072558C16.pdf
View attachment 1083173
Like I said, I don't think he would have been able to get out initially with enough gold to sit on for the rest of his life. He probably took a couple of bars (at 30-40 pounds per bar). He kept low paying jobs and stayed out of the spotlight for about 10 years. Then, in 1944 or 1945, he went back and carted off a bunch. He likely made periodic trips back and forth getting gold each time. Your letter happened in 1958. Long after Willie's Occupation stopped being listed (1944 last year listed). He likely had a bunch of gold accrued between 1944 and 1958.
This also tells one other thing;
The story about Willie blasting shut the entrance to his cave is probably not true.
Mike
Crow
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And......IF this is the same Laurence W. Foreman (Willie).....where did he obtain the 7 Grand to purchase this piece of property? In 1957 that was a lot of dinero.....
http://archives.slc.ca.gov/Meeting_Summaries/1958_Documents/07-25-58/Items/072558C16.pdf
View attachment 1083173
A brilliant discovery. 7000$ would be approx be 200 ounces in 1957 gold value a little shy of 35 and ounce. However he could of also gained the money via his relationships?
However I wonder if that land was later redeveloped for housing it could have been the later source of his wealth by the time he died?
Crow
sdcfia
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Nobody is trying to convince you. People eventually end up convincing themselves of things anyway. I'm just pointing out three published references in the lives of Douthit (self-published book), Ward (newspaper article describing his double amputation) and Noss (burial place) - presumably three important actors in this drama. It may mean nothing, it may be some sort of a link, like that mysterious "guerrilla gang" thing. That's why this Willie-digging is interesting: new stuff keeps cropping up. When we don't know the facts, it's dangerous to rule out possibilities based on pre-concieved beliefs.
sdcfia
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I think the scenario you theorize is probably not a lot different than one that many of us might attempt if faced with the same opportunity: use a little at a time, keep a low profile, keep busy, don't make waves. Later, as you become established, you can loosen up a little more. and spend larger amounts of your "savings". This sure requires discipline.
You also raise an interesting point about his cave: it must have provided reasonably easy access in later years, and if he was able to keep returning, it indicates that it might not have been discovered by others - or at least emptied.
UncleMatt
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I wonder if Willie's cave in any way ties in with the story of the guy who found the cave in Cable Canyon in the 1960's. Where he stuffed the bodies of those two cowboys he killed who came up on him while looting that cave. Would Willie still have been accessing his cave hoard at that time, or later?
I wonder if at some point Willie returned to his cave to find a bunch of the bars missing and two bodies inside...
Mike, what make you think he stopped accruing gold in 1958 if I may ask?
I wonder if at some point Willie returned to his cave to find a bunch of the bars missing and two bodies inside...
Mike, what make you think he stopped accruing gold in 1958 if I may ask?
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sdcfia
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Well, it's in the Angeles National Forest today. Looks like a good venue for hiding stuff. Below is a portion of the 1888 LA County map with the little arrow in the NW quadrant pointing to Lot 1, Section 6, T5N, R12W - 51.97 acres. Below the map is a current aerial photo.
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