Why skeptics doesnt show proof?

[EE THr]

Re: Why skeptics doesn't show proof?

artie---

So your "proof" that LRL sales doubled last year, is that Randi quoted 20 in use, and you're saying there are 60 users on this forum?

Wow. That's just huuuuuuuuge!








Are LRLs More Than Just Dowsing?

 

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[aarthrj3811]

Re: Why skeptics doesn't show proof?

So your "proof" that LRL sales doubled last year, is that Randi quoted 20 in use, and you're saying there are 60 users on this forum?

Wow. That's just huuuuuuuuge!

I did a quick search and did not find it..I believe that it was Ted who first mentioned the 20 LRL’s and then the other Skeptics joined in…Just check the board’s and you will find testimonials from other 60 Owner/operators of these devices..Just check the Manufactures web sites and you will find 100’s more.
You are badly informed about things the skeptics have posted…Art

 

[fenixdigger]

Re: Why skeptics doesn't show proof?

Outside the guys I hunt with, I deal with 8 others on a regular basis that don't fool with any forums. Counting myself, that's a total of 15. No clue how many each one of them deal with. The numbers go up quick. I'll ask them. Figure Art, Hung, and others that have a lot more than me to count. That's a lot.

 

[GuyinWH]

Re: Why skeptics doesn't show proof?

TERMS VIOLATION

http://www.treasurenet.com/terms/

So it's been well over an hour and still no explanation of why my post was removed again... yet I cleared it up with the moderator that originally removed it before reposting....

 

[EE THr]

Re: Why skeptics doesn't show proof?

artie & fenix---

What I asked was, how does artie know that the "sales of LRLs doubled in the last year."

That got a reply from artie that the figures were posted: 20 LRL users, up to 60 LRL forum members.

That's not a statement of sales figures over the last year, but my reply was to indicate that those figures do not amount to much in the way of the volume of users or sales.

Then you two sort of drifted it off into talking about who said what about those figures, which are irrelevant anyway.

-----



So, artie, how do you know the sales doubled? (Please don't repeat what you've already said, as we've already been there, and those figures don't indicate actual sales.)




Are LRLs More Than Just Dowsing?

 

[fenixdigger]

Re: Why skeptics doesn't show proof?

I can't speak for Art, but I am in contact with people that have bit the hook on units last year, H3 being the main one at present.

I know some of them have not found anything good yet. Others will not say. The Ranger is second, followed by assorted others.

With the H3, I saw no improvement over what we were doing and do not like the sales program. The further they go, the less I like it.
IF I just had to piss money away it would be for a Bionic 01 or a Navigator.

 

[EE THr]

Re: Why skeptics doesn't show proof?

fenix---

OK. Well, I hope you find whatever you're looking for, with what you've got. And, as I have said before, I have no reason to doubt that you will.

So, anyway, why in the heck don't the skeptics show proof?

 

[aarthrj3811]

Re: Why skeptics doesn't show proof?

Hey LT…I know how the H3Tec sales program works..You give all the employees some kind of title to put on their name tag..You see it every day at Walmart, Home Depot and Star bucks..It’s a feel good thing that the experts tell them that will increase sales..
Yes I see some improvements with the new devices..Not enough to buy another tool..I think I will just use what I have…If they make one that will do the digging I would be interested..Art

So, anyway, why in the heck don't the skeptics show proof?

Yes that is the question that has been ducked and dodged for 358 posts..

 

[fenixdigger]

Re: Why skeptics doesn't show proof?

Again, I can only speak for my bunch. Absolute secrecy on location, type, amount and time is #1 on our list. If one of us finds something by our self, does not apply.

Way too much liability with showing off. I would much rather be considered an idiot than have the dogs on my ass. We give examples of things to try to PROVE the theory works. If a person only wants to argue or try to show how smart they are, fine.
If they want to know the truth, they will have the initiative to give it a shot.

I have said this many times, Do not believe anyone. If you can't do it your self, even if it works for others, it does not work for you.

That makes the truth different for everyone. Hard to win any argument when each side is right.

Here's an example; Carl said that since I was searching a 10 ft circle with the detector at each pinpoint, random chance was how I was finding things. I took 10 golf balls and threw them in the yard and checked around them. Since the farmhouse has been here since 1890, there was something to set the minelab off around most of them. Then I went to the field and threw them out. Nothing around any in a 15 ft circle. The question started when I said I was finding targets in the fields from over 1,000 ft.

This is not the first time I have tried to prove the other view by a long shot. I have even loaded the test for failure by telling the subject the device would beep. They were disappointed that it swung and did not beep. Dam hard to swallow the ideomotor on that.

 

[GuyinWH]

Re: Why skeptics doesn't show proof?

Hey LT…I know how the H3Tec sales program works..You give all the employees some kind of title to put on their name tag..You see it every day at Walmart, Home Depot and Star bucks..It’s a feel good thing that the experts tell them that will increase sales..
Yes I see some improvements with the new devices..Not enough to buy another tool..I think I will just use what I have…If they make one that will do the digging I would be interested..Art

So, anyway, why in the heck don't the skeptics show proof?

Yes that is the question that has been ducked and dodged for 358 posts..

You're the only ones doing the ducking and dodging.
There's conclusive proof on here already, scroll up or go back a page or two. But since we're on the topic of proof again. Have anything to say? (No more lies please I'm sure everyone's sick of those).


Oh yeah.. Almost forgot.
Changed my stance on the issue of whether I can be called a skeptic or not... YUP I am definitely a skeptic.

Skeptic: long definition
"A skeptic is one who prefers beliefs and conclusions that are reliable and valid to ones that are comforting or convenient, and therefore rigorously and openly applies the methods of science and reason to all empirical claims, especially their own.

A skeptic provisionally proportions acceptance of any claim to valid logic and a fair and thorough assessment of available evidence, and studies the pitfalls of human reason and the mechanisms of deception so as to avoid being deceived by others or themselves.

Skepticism values method over any particular conclusion."

Going to rephrase it for kicks and giggles:

Conclusions (nevermind beliefs) that prove LRLs are a worthless fraud are reliable and valid, not comforting or convenient. They have had the methods of science and reason rigorously and openly applied to all empirical claims

We DO provisionally proportion acceptance of any claim to valid logic and a fair and thorough assessment of available evidence, and study the pitfalls of human reason and the mechanisms of deception (LRLs) so as to avoid being deceived by others or ourselves.

Your proof is above waiting for you still, just scroll up or go back some pages. Don't waste our time with your worthless drivel about ducking and dodging.

 

[aarthrj3811]

Re: Why skeptics doesn't show proof?

You're the only ones doing the ducking and dodging.
There's conclusive proof on here already, scroll up or go back a page or two. But since we're on the topic of proof again. Have anything to say? (No more lies please I'm sure everyone's sick of those).

Poor skeptics LT…We have burst their bubble with the truth….They are so confused they don’t know which end is up..I reckon they just don’t understand Treasure hunters..The simple fact that we don’t care about theories and Scientific garbage about our tools is more than they can comprehend…Some of them have even admitted that we locate treasure with our tools…
As long as I locate treasure and recover it that is what I will do..Art

 

[GuyinWH]

Re: Why skeptics doesn't show proof?

You're the only ones doing the ducking and dodging.
There's conclusive proof on here already, scroll up or go back a page or two. But since we're on the topic of proof again. Have anything to say? (No more lies please I'm sure everyone's sick of those).

Poor skeptics LT…We have burst their bubble with the truth….They are so confused they don’t know which end is up..I reckon they just don’t understand Treasure hunters..The simple fact that we don’t care about theories and Scientific garbage about our tools is more than they can comprehend…Some of them have even admitted that we locate treasure with our tools…
As long as I locate treasure and recover it that is what I will do..Art

More ducking and dodging, stopped being cute long time ago.
But by your own admission "The simple fact that we don’t care about theories and Scientific garbage about our tools ...."
You don't care about theories or scientific garbage.... REALLY you don't say!?!?!?
We could have told you that because everyone of your fraud boxes defies everything in science and cannot possibly be proven to work.
And you still choose to ignore the proof above that shows your devices are all frauds. Thanks for fessing up to something...

NOW if only you'll fess up to the fact you're perpetuating fraud...


Also can I suggest a sticky of this somehow? Since this is no longer about LRLs LEGITIMATE uses, since they admit there are none. Can they make this LRL forum about their fairy tales stories and LRLs imaginary uses?

 

[aarthrj3811]

Re: Why skeptics doesn't show proof?

Also can I suggest a sticky of this somehow? Since this is no longer about LRLs LEGITIMATE uses, since they admit there are none. Can they make this LRL forum about their fairy tales stories and LRLs imaginary uses?

Why don’t you tell somebody who cares ? This board is to discuss LRL’s and MFD’s used for Treasure hunting…Not what skeptics think…Art
8260 LRL and MFD users will go into the field and enjoy their hobby…
Soon to be 10,000 then 15,000 and then even more
And Millions of Dowsers will also be using their rods

 

[GuyinWH]

Re: Why skeptics doesn't show proof?

Also can I suggest a sticky of this somehow? Since this is no longer about LRLs LEGITIMATE uses, since they admit there are none. Can they make this LRL forum about their fairy tales stories and LRLs imaginary uses?

Why don’t you tell somebody who cares ? This board is to discuss LRL’s and MFD’s used for Treasure hunting…Not what skeptics think…Art
8260 LRL and MFD users will go into the field and enjoy their hobby…
Soon to be 10,000 then 15,000 and then even more
And Millions of Dowsers will also be using their rods

haha
no this topic is JUST about WHY us skeptics don't show proof....
We did yet again and this is what happens. You all go haywire with irrelevant baloney every time.

Oh yeah...this
"This board is to discuss LRL’s and MFD’s used for Treasure hunting
"

You are completely right for once, it is!! We're here to let the uninformed know you can't treasure hunt with them because these LRLs and MFDs "used for treasure hunting" are all a fraud; so get a garrett or whites or another legitimate metal detector.

 

[fenixdigger]

Re: Why skeptics doesn't show proof?

Here's a little something to ponder.

Suppose you had extensive training in things like circuit design and troubleshooting.

All of a sudden you see things that cannot be possible within the realm of what you have been taught and doing.

First thought is that this is BS. 2nd thought is total confusion. After enough exposure, you decide to get to the bottom of it.

Well, there is no bottom. Too many things that have no explanation. I was absolutely sure ANYTHING would fit into an equation of some sort.
I was one of those people that had a problem "accepting" certain facts in math. I wanted to see the proof. Dam near failed geometry because I could see the answer and the process of doing it like the teacher wanted slowed me down. Was not logical to do that when I already had the answer. Lesson learned.

I'm sure this stuff will be equatable once we know what is going on. We don't. What is causing the GPS to jump around on top of the targets? Why does hardened steel rusting give the same lock as a sample of gold? Many questions like this that only being out there will bring up. Easy to tell if someone has gotten their hands dirty by the questions they ask.

My being a critic is down to "is that a good signal, or junk". That "it won't work" crap fell in the can a long time ago. But it is something to argue about I guess.

 

[aarthrj3811]

Re: Why skeptics doesn't show proof?

~ GuyinWH~

You are completely right for once, it is!! We're here to let the uninformed know you can't treasure hunt with them because these LRLs and MFDs "used for treasure hunting" are all a fraud; so get a garrett or whites or another legitimate metal detector.

If you want to treasure hunt with a conventional metal detector that is your right..If I want to treasure hunt and recover gold at a distance and depth that is my right..
In over a year you “clones” have only presented one case where a Manufacture was arrested and a Jury trial was held..In 1996 and the Jury found them not guilty..So is the Jury system now fraudulent because of their actions ?..Art

 

[GuyinWH]

Re: Why skeptics doesn't show proof?

~ GuyinWH~

You are completely right for once, it is!! We're here to let the uninformed know you can't treasure hunt with them because these LRLs and MFDs "used for treasure hunting" are all a fraud; so get a garrett or whites or another legitimate metal detector.

If you want to treasure hunt with a conventional metal detector that is your right..If I want to treasure hunt and recover gold at a distance and depth that is my right..
In over a year you “clones” have only presented one case where a Manufacture was arrested and a Jury trial was held..In 1996 and the Jury found them not guilty..So is the Jury system now fraudulent because of their actions ?..Art

You're right, that is your right if you want to treasure hunt however you may want.
But its far from being your right to defraud people on here.

Theres more than on conviction posted above you might want to check that also.

And a jury finding people not guilty of fraud (in that one your mentioning they found the product to be fraudulent but not the people) is absolutely irrelevant, the law is crooked that way.
I mean, REALLY how can you back up or support a person who knows FULL WELL their product is a fraud? They are a part of the fraud, the juries decision shows they were ill-informed and the prosecution was a bunch of idiots. But that just all proves they're ALL a fraud.
You're all still claiming to use technologies that are inexistent.

 

[aarthrj3811]

Re: Why skeptics doesn't show proof?

You're right, that is your right if you want to treasure hunt however you may want.
But its far from being your right to defraud people on here.

Theres more than on conviction posted above you might want to check that also.

And a jury finding people not guilty of fraud (in that one your mentioning they found the product to be fraudulent but not the people) is absolutely irrelevant, the law is crooked that way.
I mean, REALLY how can you back up or support a person who knows FULL WELL their product is a fraud? They are a part of the fraud, the juries decision shows they were ill-informed and the prosecution was a bunch of idiots. But that just all proves they're ALL a fraud. You're all still claiming to use technologies that are inexistent.

Got it…Everything is fraud unless a skeptic say’s it is not…Good to see how your “belief system” works..thank You

 

[GuyinWH]

Re: Why skeptics doesn't show proof?

You're right, that is your right if you want to treasure hunt however you may want.
But its far from being your right to defraud people on here.

Theres more than on conviction posted above you might want to check that also.

And a jury finding people not guilty of fraud (in that one your mentioning they found the product to be fraudulent but not the people) is absolutely irrelevant, the law is crooked that way.
I mean, REALLY how can you back up or support a person who knows FULL WELL their product is a fraud? They are a part of the fraud, the juries decision shows they were ill-informed and the prosecution was a bunch of idiots. But that just all proves they're ALL a fraud. You're all still claiming to use technologies that are inexistent.

Got it…Everything is fraud unless a skeptic say’s it is not…Good to see how your “belief system” works..thank You

You're completely misconstruing things to your liking, evidently you didn't read you just decided to throw that out there.

Heres the part you missed...

The device was deemed to be a fraud, the people got off from being charged as being a part of it, that does not take away from the fact the device was a fraud...

get that?
The prosecution sucking and those conartists not getting punished is irrelevant its not about them its about the devices being a fraud.

BUT you still won't mention the other convictions... You choose to ignore those and pick on one where you, for some reason or another, think you actually have an argument. You clearly don't. Answer us about the others where there are convictions. Even the convictions are irrelevant; only reason I bring them up is because your kooks seem to think people have to be convicted when they're plainly stating the devices are a fraud anyways. Which is the proof this thread speaks about, that these devices have ALL been found to be a fraud by the courts when heavily scrutinized by scientists/authorities.

I'd sit and chat some more but I have to get driving back to winter haven, and I can tell this is going to get derailed again. Might be back on later.

 

[aarthrj3811]

Re: Why skeptics doesn't show proof?

The prosecution sucking and those conartists not getting punished is irrelevant its not about them its about the devices being a fraud.

BUT you still won't mention the other convictions...

Are you talking about the fact that a Judge signed an order to shut down a Company claiming they had committed Mail Fraud..? No big deal…Federal Judges tell people that what they voted yes on was wrong all the time…Every one know that a Federal Judge has the power to stop people from making a Ham Sandwiches..

The prosecution sucking

We see now..It was a sucking prosecution that could not prove the device was fraudulent..It is Ok for you to blame them..Art