Why hasnt the government figured it out yet?

[alexfm123]

Re: Why hasn't the government figured it out yet?

Im not sure if its been mentioned in this thread or not, but there are several very eye opening "documentaries" out there. One very good one is Zeitgeist. I lost the link to the original video, but if you look on youtube, you can find it. THere are several parts to the movie, and I think the most relevant one is the second (I think) section, that talks about the American economy and just about everything you guys have said.

Just my 2cents,
Alex.

 

Amazon Forum Fav 👍

Upgraded Night Vision Monocular Digital Infrared Monocular Telescope for 100% Darkness with 8X Zoom - Grab it through Amazon!

[EE THr]

Re: Why hasn't the government figured it out yet?

alexfm123;

I saw those, and they are really good.

But in the three-part interview with the guy who made them, it seems he wants to create a system where there is no money at all. I can understand conversion to a congress-generated, U.S. owned, stable dollar, but I can't quite imagine a totally no-money system being at all interesting or fun. Maybe I misunderstood something there.

Don

 

[mrs.oroblanco]

Re: Why hasn't the government figured it out yet?

The videos were interesting.

And, to be sure, there have been some really interesting documentaries done, especially in the last year or two.

But, my issue with documentaries - all documentaries - is that they all have a "point of view" to begin with, and present evidence that leans towards their viewpoint. When, in reality, there is usually much more information on a given subject that is NOT presented.

This pertains to almost all documentaries, no matter what the subject matter.

B

 

[EE THr]

Re: Why hasn't the government figured it out yet?

mrs. o;

Very true. I've seen a couple videos by the same person or group which were fairly convincing, then seen another that says they are all wrong, then a few others somewhere in between.

The information about the Federal Reserve Bank, though, I've seen in different books, blogs, and videos, over the last several years, and they all say the same basic thing. Some are more detailed, and some give more of the history of it, but the general idea is that it "ain't no good nohow." IT appears that the bankers are siphoning off huge amounts of our money in several different ways. Plus controlling various different markets, then engaging in massave insider trading. And with the documented political rhetoric from the top "Central Bank" proponents, it seems that those problems are the least of it.

 

[mrs.oroblanco]

Re: Why hasn't the government figured it out yet?

For most subjects, I would happily play "devil's advocate" and debate the other side (even if it is not my personal opinion).

In this case, however, I firmly believe, in my soul, that the Federal Reserve Bank is an illegal and unconstitutional entity, beyond our control (the ultimate opposite of government of the people, by the people and for the people), so, I can find absolutely nothing to argue the "other" side with,
that would support anything the Federal Reserve Bank has done, does do, and will continue to do in the future.

B

 

[Jeep]

Re: Why hasn't the government figured it out yet?

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/english/doc/2004-11/29/content_395728.htm

 

[mrs.oroblanco]

Re: Why hasn't the government figured it out yet?

At the moment, I'm going to hope that Wal~Mart retains their relationship with China - with the amount of business they do with them, if that were to stop, it might put a hurt on China's economy - and maybe make them call in some of their loans to us!

Wal~Mart always comes up - apparently, "free enterprise" and "capitalism" should not apply to them also? If there was not a Wal~Mart, there would be 1.2 million less jobs, (that's in the US ONLY) and 100 million less people being able to afford things they need and/or want.

At last count, Wal~Mart spent approximately 15 billion in Chinese goods (and they paid for them) - our government? It owes China over 150 billion dollars. (and its probably more, because that was the figures from before the last economic downturn and the TARP business.

B

 

[EE THr]

The Federal Reserve Bank, Incorporated.

The FED is one of several major "proof points" of the Conspiracy Theory.

There is no way that having the FED makes any sense at all. I can only find two reasons for it
passing congress---

1. Congressmen who voted for it wanted to allow them to siphon off huge amounts of our money into private pockets. They would have to be getting some kind of rewards to do this. This plan would have to be formed in secret. This would be illegal.

2. Congressmen who voted for it were out-and-out stupid. Probably too stupid to get real jobs that pay as much as they make, and certainly too stupid to organize a successful election campaign. So they must have had people telling them what to say and do to get elected, who, in exchange for their help, continued telling them after they were in office. This plan would have to be formed in secret. This plan would be illegal.

Number one meets the definition of a conspiracy.

Number two meets the definition of a conspiracy.

I've never thought, or heard, of a third possibility. Has anyone?

 

[mrs.oroblanco]

Re: Why hasn't the government figured it out yet?

One major problem (among many), is that congress and some executive orders, have changed the constitution. Which is not really legal or constitutional. I think they knew that it would never pass muster in a public vote, so they did it "temporarily, forever".

Remember the 3rd part of this - not as a conspiracy theory, but just facts, that some of the very richest people, like the Rockefellers, have their hands in that till - that's just fact, and they do not hide it.

So, as with most other things - the rich control the purse strings.

B

 

[EE THr]

Re: Why hasn't the government figured it out yet?

Mrs. O;

I agree on all of your points there. And although they can be simply said, they are very important points!

I'm starting to think that one arm of "The Octopus" is psychological, and may be the most important arm. There have long been concepts like You Are What You Think, and the movie which Oprah talked about, called The Secret, where the idea is that a person's thoughts cause things to happen in reality. For example, they say that if a person thinks he won't succeed then he won't, because that's what he thought. Also that one's thoughts affect other people's actions, and things outside of themselves. There seems to be a level of thought above hope, if people can reach it somehow, and maintain it.

Thought control seems to be the main idea of PsyOps, commonly used by the military. It may be the main idea of schools telling kids, "You are here to learn how to get jobs and pay your taxes."

So there seems to be an additional option to the limited possibilities of, "Either lay down and accept it, or take up arms." Either of which now appears to be a losing proposition.

Some Congress people seem to be actively working on the FED problem. And the crooks have taken a few hits lately.

 

[Michigan Badger]

Re: Why hasn't the government figured it out yet?

I personally believe that it goes deeper than merely the government of China, or even our own government. Yes they are the ones physicaly doin' these things on the surface, but there is somethin' else goin' on here that we cannot see. These governments are like puppets on strings. I really don't even think that they themselves are aware of it.
If you look back upon history you will see all different nations at different times goin' through basically the same thing as us right now. We are the last free nation, and I use that term free loosely. Cause we are really in a socialist nation and have been for some time. The State basicaly dictates what we the people can and cannot do.
It is all comin' together now. The world will be on the same playin' level. There will be no great superpower nation anymore. We in all nations will be on an equal playin' field. There will not be a great nation, but a great global superpower that governs all nations.
The economy of America must first fall before this can happen as we have allways been the strongest finincially and with our military. If our economy falls, so does our military forces. We would then be equal to the rest of the world. I didn't go into a whole lot of detail about what I believe, but I think you can read between the lines and get the info you need.

Yes, the world dictator--the anti-Christ. It all has to happen, doesn't it?

 

[EE THr]

Re: Why hasn't the government figured it out yet?

No, it doesn't have to happen.

 

[ken(Toronto)]

Re: Why hasn't the government figured it out yet?

The only solution to America's problem , is to do away with "greed".
However, it will be extremely difficult because of the constitution, and the fundamental premise of "democracy", freedom of everything. There really is such a thing as "too free".
To start with, there ought to be a limit on "capitalism". Let's start with the CEO and executive salaries.
A simple calculation:
It's reported that even in the depth of the recession, the Banks' CEO and executive bonuses were something like $10 billion+? If true, that is both obscene and immoral! while people are suffering, and the whole country is going to the dogs. Take that $10 billion, and divided by say the minimal worker's salary of $30K....you get something like 300,000 + jobs. What about the CEO and executive salaries themselves? So, if the salaries of these people were limited to say, Max $1 million each year, how many jobs will that create? At least it'll get the jobless rate down to a more reasonable level.
And, those executives will not starve on their $1 million salary...and they will still be RICH!
As it stands with the law now, these people in charge of Corporate American, have one goal , and one goal only, to enrich themselves and set up for retirement. Do you think they give a hoot about the Company or the workers or the country? No! Even if the Company goes bankrupt, after being in the company for a few years, they're all set; they've already amassed their fortunes with their multi-million $ salaries and bonuses. If they get fired, all the better, because the contract gives them $millions in severance pay. Unfortunately, the government does nothing because their hands are tied by the constitution, they cannot "interfere" with the "free market". It's a free-for-all out there. These guys have got the politicians in their back-pockets.
The form of government is flawed too. Yes it's freely elected, but does not represent the people. The only goal of the politicians is to get elected. So, they can lie and promise...but once elected, nothing matters. The sad part is, there IS NO choice out there, even though there's the appearance of a choice between two parties, the reality is they're mostly the same; no real changes.
Unless you have a closed society with no trade, living standards and wealth of average citizens will gravitate towards the compromise denominator....meaning the standards of poor countries will rise, and those of "rich" countries will fall until they meet in equilibrium.
All manufacturing will go to China, India,...etc as long as you have international trade and there's a large gap in wages.
The other problem is oil. There was a crisis back in 1980, when there was a shortage of the stuff, and rationing occurred. For 30 years after, the government did nothing, both Democrats and Republicans. If they had seriously put a alternative energy plan into effect back then, I cannot imagine that there would still no substitute for oil today. Imagine if they recognized the problem with "free enterprise" back then, and diverted the excess salaries of Corporate America into research for a solution, the country may not be in this dire situation today; similarly, the limitation on "greed" would have prevented the housing crisis that precipitated the economic collapse and recession.

Then, there's the wars; which drained the country of its capital.
Don't you go to war with a plan? overwhelming force, win ,kick out the bad guys, and leave? Why stay, especially if you're NOT welcome; what are the benefits?

Unless the above problems gets addressed by the government, the country will continue to accumulate debt.

Ken

 

[Monty]

Re: Why hasn't the government figured it out yet?

I'm sure Obama would agree with you. Your first paragraph merely realates a redistribution of the wealth, the first step to socialism. We've done quite well with capitalism thank you. I for one will stick with it. Monty

 

[EE THr]

Re: Why hasn't the government figured it out yet?

Ken---

...there ought to be a limit on "capitalism". Let's start with the CEO and executive salaries.

There already is a limitation on corporate executive salaries. There is a law which says it it illegal for a corporate executive to have a salary that is significantly higher than other executives at the same level at other corporations in comparable businesses.

But look at Bill Gates and other pseudo-elites. They are playing by different rules, I guess!

While they can still limit the personal income of us "common" people, no matter how much money your business, if you are incorporated, makes.

 

[ivan salis]

Re: Why hasn't the government figured it out yet?

who says "the grubbermint" has not "figgered" it out -- folks that run the "grubbermint" seem to do really really well$$$$--while common working stiffs get taxed to death - a very few ultra rich bribe and pay off the political hacks to pass laws and rules that favor keep the status quo-- unchanged--the rich stay rich and get richer and the poor get the shaft of paying the cost of running things

-- voting in america today is like ordering from a chinese restaurant -- you can get column A (dems) or column B (reps) --either way you get the same "basic" stuff and the bill to pay --- frankly neither one serves "we the people" anymore --so theres not much "real" differance .

 

[mrs.oroblanco]

Re: Why hasn't the government figured it out yet?

significantly higher than other executives

Where does it say that? (first question)

And, get real, if it DID say that, somewhere, all one has to do (and it is done), where ALL executives get overpaid - no problem.

The word "capitalism" and "limit" cannot co-exist amicably.

However, if you were to say that the high paid executives should only get a percentage of the profits that is tied to the profits of all other co-owners (as ALL stockholders are co-owners), that would be a different story, and still be "capitalistic" in nature, because the more the company makes, the more the co-owners make and the more the executives make.

Some folks have this unrealistic idea that executives are "just paid". They are not. They normally have a base salary, plus a percentage. (plus part of the stock, and whatever other goodies they can negotiate for themselves. People also have this untrue notion that stockholders divide profits - not correct. Stockholders get to collect, equally, whatever the company decides it will pay of the profits. Some stockholders get paid nothing, even though the company makes a lot of money. It is whatever "the boards" decide.

The "gubbermint" as a government, makes nothing, everything that comes in goes back out somewhere. Its the folks who own those side businesses (like Haliburton) that do really well.

B

 

[ivan salis]

Re: Why hasn't the government figured it out yet?

the "grubbermint" skims off their salarys and benefiits--and--- then passes on the left over money via "grunnermint" contracts to the folks like haliburton who then "kick back" $$$ to them via various means -- the problem is "corrupt govt in bed with corrupt big bussiness / rich and powerful money men" --who set policy to fleece the working class of as much money as they can , via taxes for them to skim and contract out to the rich and powerful companys .

exsample --al gore pushing --"carbon credits" -- instead of making polluting companys stop or clean up their ways -- they say make them "pay" a tax -- (so they still screw up the enviroment they just "pay more" to do it ) --and who do they "buy" thezse carbon credits from pray tell?--why companys that were set up by ? al gore "surprize!!!--- of course --the increased cost that the polluting company will pay for those "credits" WILL be passed on to --the consumer --- ie the poor public

bottom line --we the public will pay more $$$$ --so that polluting companys can continue to do the same old thing (spew deadly toxins on the public)-- but they can afford now to "pay off the policticans" via the "carbon credits"--without dipping into their pockets -- by passing on the "carbon credit cost / political kickback fund" onto the public via higher poduct cost

my god , it would be funny that anyone would be stupid enough to fall for this --- if it was not so criminally sad and twisted.

 

[Seamuss]

Re: Why hasn't the government figured it out yet?

we still have capitalism under the name "GREED" with capital letters and the rich get richer because of their practice of GREED and the poor get poorer because of their lack of understanding of capitalism"GREED" and how to use it wisely. I was poor in my younger because of punching a time card and realized that money comes to the person that invents their own ideas and work those ideas to death. Am I filthy rich, hell no, but I live comfortable. So much for not learning the definition of GREED in my younger years.

I can work for the man or be the man. Capitalism.

 

[ken(Toronto)]

Re: Why hasn't the government figured it out yet?

Or are they just eaten up with greed? Monty

Like I said, it's "GREED" in capital letters.

"Grubbermint" and Corporate America , are not for the people, they are for themselves.

China will not "conquer" America, just like it did not happen with Japan back a couple of decades ago. The Japanese wages became too high and exports became expensive, it will happen in China as well.

"Greed" will be the downfall, if it's not mitigated somehow. It's an internal problem, not to blame other countries. America was running a "surplus" in the 90's; no economic problem back then. why hasn't anyone looked at what happened since then to plunge the country into such dire straits? Learn from past mistakes, and set policies that will correct the problem; instead of adhering to a rigid set of beliefs and ideologies. Who created the crisis? the Banks and their CEO's. Why? because of GREED, these guys wanted more bonuses based on sales of mortgages, so they invented all these 'fake' securities like CDO's, CDS's,..etc and give mortgages to people who obviously will never be able to pay back. Goldman Sachs is one example, selling these "securities" to the public, while at the same time, betting that they will fail at the same time. Make money both ways!



Ken