Why did Travis Tumlinson Fake the Stone Maps as a Hoax?

[releventchair]

A ways back Deducer took me to task for explaining that the TV project wasn’t going to be in the level of detail that many of you would like to see.

I told you that as the project evolved and expanded it was obvious the scope had to change to make it into something saleable to an uninformed audience. That there wasn’t time or interest from the public for ALL the information collected to be FULLY explained and laid out. That the “piece” was for entertainment purposes and not a thesis for a doctorate. That the level of discovery that you seek would be discussed here rather than running off the target audience with the tedium and redundancy to screen play that level of discussion. I stand by those statements.

Those statements struck a nerve with Deducer. His reply to me was ….”Let me knock you down a few pegs here…”. Interesting choice of words for an open discussion forum and quite revealing I’d say. My first inclination was to defend with details of the project. Couldn’t do that for obvious reasons and felt somewhat defenseless. But; in retrospect, that’s not really what’s at play here. I feel that I can speak on the subject without jeopardizing the project.

In his tirade to me Deducer goes through a litany of negativity as to the project, how it’s been conducted, the credentials of those involved and his total disgust with all things associated. Most of which are premature, lack knowledge on his part, and; of which several are misdirected. So be it. I’ll take his challenge no matter the prematurity or misdirection. His characterization of me is left to your consideration as to appropriate or not.

To illustrate his superior ability and knowledge he directs me to the overwhelming success of March of the Penguins. The 2005 Oscar winning documentary of Luc Jacquet. This was supposed to show me (and you) how wrong I was and how enlightened Deducer was to what makes up an inviting narrative to an uninformed public. And, I suppose, knock me down a few pegs. I take that to mean go away little woman and don’t bother yourself with intellectual subjects. Just go fix dinner; or something.

I was vaguely familiar with Jacquet’s work having seen it some years ago. It was an enjoyable piece with beautiful scenery and a very loveable subject matter. That was about my sum total knowledge of the work. So, I did what I always do when I’m not totally up to snuff on a subject……..I researched it.

Come to find out, the filming and production of March of the Penguins fully supports every word I wrote to you about the level of detail of a successful entertainment piece. Almost word for word. It is a good benchmark and model for how to go about the history and story behind the Peralta Stone Maps. And one the program manager is following. Whether that's by design or instinct, I do not know but I see its a proven winner.

March of the Penguins is 1 hour and 26 minutes of footage which spans a one year life cycle of penguins. The filming totaled 13 months on location. Research for the piece began in 1995. The original French piece has a completely different narrative format than the American one. The change was TO APPEAL to a different audience. It purposely omits or only lightly touches greater moral issues and current political battles.

Another point Deducer makes is the relative lack of experience at this level that our current project manager may have. Although I find that petty and demeaning on its face, I direct you to the fact that March of the Penguins was Luc Jacquet’s FIRST venture into this level of documentary filming. Did this tidbit escape Deducer’s notice or was its lack of disclosure withheld to knock someone down a peg?

Now I ask you; with 13 months of on sight filming and 10 years of research do you suspect that not ALL of the information and footage available to Jacquet was presented in the 86 minutes of on screen viewing Obviously that’s the case. Now why was that? To avoid audience information overload, perhaps? Just as I told you about this project, so it was also with the piece that Deducer uses to illustrate our shortcomings. How he knows or thinks he knows what material will or won't be portrayed is beyond me.

The in-depth details will be discussed here. As they should be, among those interested in more detail.

Jacquet got it right with his analysis of how much information to portray and was rewarded for it. Something his more heady pieces since have not been able to duplicate.

Human cholla knows neither bounds nor tact.
Will stick around for a free ride though.

 

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[EarnieP]

Old,

Bravo, well stated!
I like your style and obvious intellect, and hope to never get on the wrong side of either.

 

[deducer]

A ways back Deducer took me to task for explaining that the TV project wasn’t going to be in the level of detail that many of you would like to see.

I told you that as the project evolved and expanded it was obvious the scope had to change to make it into something saleable to an uninformed audience. That there wasn’t time or interest from the public for ALL the information collected to be FULLY explained and laid out. That the “piece” was for entertainment purposes and not a thesis for a doctorate. That the level of discovery that you seek would be discussed here rather than running off the target audience with the tedium and redundancy to screen play that level of discussion. I stand by those statements.

Those statements struck a nerve with Deducer. His reply to me was ….”Let me knock you down a few pegs here…”. Interesting choice of words for an open discussion forum and quite revealing I’d say. My first inclination was to defend with details of the project. Couldn’t do that for obvious reasons and felt somewhat defenseless. But; in retrospect, that’s not really what’s at play here. I feel that I can speak on the subject without jeopardizing the project.

In his tirade to me Deducer goes through a litany of negativity as to the project, how it’s been conducted, the credentials of those involved and his total disgust with all things associated. Most of which are premature, lack knowledge on his part, and; of which several are misdirected. So be it. I’ll take his challenge no matter the prematurity or misdirection. His characterization of me is left to your consideration as to appropriate or not.

To illustrate his superior ability and knowledge he directs me to the overwhelming success of March of the Penguins. The 2005 Oscar winning documentary of Luc Jacquet. This was supposed to show me (and you) how wrong I was and how enlightened Deducer was to what makes up an inviting narrative to an uninformed public. And, I suppose, knock me down a few pegs. I take that to mean go away little woman and don’t bother yourself with intellectual subjects. Just go fix dinner; or something.

I was vaguely familiar with Jacquet’s work having seen it some years ago. It was an enjoyable piece with beautiful scenery and a very loveable subject matter. That was about my sum total knowledge of the work. So, I did what I always do when I’m not totally up to snuff on a subject……..I researched it.

Come to find out, the filming and production of March of the Penguins fully supports every word I wrote to you about the level of detail of a successful entertainment piece. Almost word for word. It is a good benchmark and model for how to go about the history and story behind the Peralta Stone Maps. And one the program manager is following. Whether that's by design or instinct, I do not know but I see its a proven winner.

March of the Penguins is 1 hour and 26 minutes of footage which spans a one year life cycle of penguins. The filming totaled 13 months on location. Research for the piece began in 1995. The original French piece has a completely different narrative format than the American one. The change was TO APPEAL to a different audience. It purposely omits or only lightly touches greater moral issues and current political battles.

Another point Deducer makes is the relative lack of experience at this level that our current project manager may have. Although I find that petty and demeaning on its face, I direct you to the fact that March of the Penguins was Luc Jacquet’s FIRST venture into this level of documentary filming. Did this tidbit escape Deducer’s notice or was its lack of disclosure withheld to knock someone down a peg?

Now I ask you; with 13 months of on sight filming and 10 years of research do you suspect that not ALL of the information and footage available to Jacquet was presented in the 86 minutes of on screen viewing Obviously that’s the case. Now why was that? To avoid audience information overload, perhaps? Just as I told you about this project, so it was also with the piece that Deducer uses to illustrate our shortcomings. How he knows or thinks he knows what material will or won't be portrayed is beyond me.

The in-depth details will be discussed here. As they should be, among those interested in more detail.

Jacquet got it right with his analysis of how much information to portray and was rewarded for it. Something his more heady pieces since have not been able to duplicate.

I assume that you are referring to PNG by the terms program or project manager?

If so, the conduct of your project/program manager does point to quite a bit of inexperience as far as building and relating to a target audience as I previously stated. He got himself banned here, and trashed an entire forum on the other site, so now where is your target audience? What do you build on now? Furthermore, two posters on this board have considerable knowledge not just of Tumlinson, the Stone Maps, but the circumstances and history surrounding both, and PNG, as far as I understand it, “verbally whipped” one of them over the phone, and publicly shamed the other, despite the fact that both of them helped him. So at this point, it looks like he may have alienated two critical resources. That does not look like a good beginning to me. Hopefully he can recover and get back in the good grace of some of the people in this community.

You claim the average audience will not have the patience or inclination to “sit through the time it would take to gain one.” What I did was simply point out that Marketing 101 (or common sense) would show you that all good marketing is done before any of this happen, before the remote is ever picked up (in a manner of speaking). You target a base audience that you know will sit through your program, develop an interactive relationship with them, welcome their input, and treat them like your ally because they will help in a big way to get the buzz out to the “average audience” through world of mouth. Does this not make sense? You may have resented my “knock you down a few pegs” comment, but I hope you can understand that you were, in fact, and with all due respect, pontificating about something you have zero experience with.

The parallel I was trying to make with “March of the Penguins” is that it doesn’t matter what the subject matter is, or how long it is- be it about penguins walking on ice, or a man who died trying to solve puzzles carved on stones, the bottom line is, if it is done very well, and marketed well- then it will do well. The notion that one must “produce what the public wants, in the dosage they find acceptable,” is not, and will never define the success of a production. (Try telling that to James Cameron). Ken Burns creates documentaries that average a staggering 10 or 20 hours, but that doesn't stop these documentaries from being successful. What you took to be a derogatory remark was actually an encouragement, in this vein.

And as far as this forthcoming Tumlinson project, whatever the genre, scope, or context, or eventual form it will take, I have made no harmful insinuation or derogatory comment in regard to its supposed content or production since I know absolutely nothing about it, but if you perceive otherwise, please feel free to find and quote specific examples of my doing so.

 

[EarnieP]

There it is again. Whoosh!

 

[Old]

Deducer, you seem to assume that the members of this forum ARE the target audience. That's not correct and therein lies our difference in opinion. The members here are more representative of a part of the story. They are more in line as figures to be cast as down line benefactors of the Stones. (Nameless, unless they choose to participate). If not benefactors, at least affected parties to the story. The stones have touched their lives. That's part OF the story.

Joe R and PNG's conversations, both heated and helpful, have been aired by Joe R here and by PNG elsewhere. Last I knew they were on good terms. But that's really none of my business.

As to the other matter, I am well aware of the entirety of the matter. I don't know if you have all the data from both sides of the conversations. If you don't have it, or have not been told the totality of the matter, you are not in a position to judge what happened, why and how it happened, and how it had a long term effect on one of the parties involved. If you don't have all the pieces to consider you are unaware of how it was an impediment to ANY interaction with Dutch Hunters in general and had to be rectified before forward progress could be made. Its a most unfortunate happening to all involved. The party you cheerlead for has stepped up to the plate and made a heartfelt apology to the affected parties. They are the only ones involved. That should be the end of discussion. Why do you want to continue to drag it through the mud. It will only hurt the one you wish to protect. Both sides have suffered enough. End it.

 

[cw0909]

There it is again. Whoosh!

got to get my hearing checked, i keep hearing this

https://youtu.be/c-c212c9qVg?t=3s

 

[Weaversneedle]

Deducer, you seem to assume that the members of this forum ARE the target audience. That's not correct and therein lies our difference in opinion. The members here are more representative of a part of the story. They are more in line as figures to be cast as down line benefactors of the Stones. (Nameless, unless they choose to participate). If not benefactors, at least affected parties to the story. The stones have touched their lives. That's part OF the story.

Joe R and PNG's conversations, both heated and helpful, have been aired by Joe R here and by PNG elsewhere. Last I knew they were on good terms. But that's really none of my business.

As to the other matter, I am well aware of the entirety of the matter. I don't know if you have all the data from both sides of the conversations. If you don't have it, or have not been told the totality of the matter, you are not in a position to judge what happened, why and how it happened, and how it had a long term effect on one of the parties involved. If you don't have all the pieces to consider you are unaware of how it was an impediment to ANY interaction with Dutch Hunters in general and had to be rectified before forward progress could be made. Its a most unfortunate happening to all involved. The party you cheerlead for has stepped up to the plate and made a heartfelt apology to the affected parties. They are the only ones involved. That should be the end of discussion. Why do you want to continue to drag it through the mud. It will only hurt the one you wish to protect. Both sides have suffered enough. End it.

Old, I think you are correct in assuming the people on this forum will only make up a small percentage of the viewers of a future TV show. For example the show "legend of the superstitiouns " was a big success and it wasn't because of the members of this forum. Actually it was the other way around, the TV show brought alot of people to this forum. I would venture to say any movie or TV show about the superstitioun mountains will have a big audience

 

[Ponchosportal]

Deducer, you seem to assume that the members of this forum ARE the target audience. That's not correct and therein lies our difference in opinion. The members here are more representative of a part of the story. They are more in line as figures to be cast as down line benefactors of the Stones. (Nameless, unless they choose to participate). If not benefactors, at least affected parties to the story. The stones have touched their lives. That's part OF the story.

Joe R and PNG's conversations, both heated and helpful, have been aired by Joe R here and by PNG elsewhere. Last I knew they were on good terms. But that's really none of my business.

As to the other matter, I am well aware of the entirety of the matter. I don't know if you have all the data from both sides of the conversations. If you don't have it, or have not been told the totality of the matter, you are not in a position to judge what happened, why and how it happened, and how it had a long term effect on one of the parties involved. If you don't have all the pieces to consider you are unaware of how it was an impediment to ANY interaction with Dutch Hunters in general and had to be rectified before forward progress could be made. Its a most unfortunate happening to all involved. The party you cheerlead for has stepped up to the plate and made a heartfelt apology to the affected parties. They are the only ones involved. That should be the end of discussion. Why do you want to continue to drag it through the mud. It will only hurt the one you wish to protect. Both sides have suffered enough. End it.

For not being the target audience you seem to spend a great deal of time here trying to impact/change peoples opinion about what it is they don't know.

Maybe you should give us an example of the education/communication/exchange you have had with your target audience so we can have a better understanding of your intent.

Then your breathless exhaustion of our ignorance won't be necessary and these exchanges can be more spot on.

Just saying.

 

[deducer]

Deducer, you seem to assume that the members of this forum ARE the target audience. That's not correct and therein lies our difference in opinion. The members here are more representative of a part of the story. They are more in line as figures to be cast as down line benefactors of the Stones. (Nameless, unless they choose to participate). If not benefactors, at least affected parties to the story. The stones have touched their lives. That's part OF the story.

By definition, the members of this forum composes your base audience. Nowhere else will you find a group of people as interested and knowledgeable about the subject matter that you purport to cover in this forthcoming Tumlinson project. It would be a mistake for you to dismiss the resources available to you by interacting with this site, and I think you know this very well, as you wouldn’t otherwise spend so much time here.

In that you are ostensibly doing the research for this Tumlinson project, you may find it far more beneficial to solicit information or perspectives and engage in peer discussion, rather than lecture. There are people here that have been at this far longer than you or PNG have ever been, and their perspectives and input would be of invaluable assistance to you and PNG.

Joe R and PNG's conversations, both heated and helpful, have been aired by Joe R here and by PNG elsewhere. Last I knew they were on good terms. But that's really none of my business.

As to the other matter, I am well aware of the entirety of the matter. I don't know if you have all the data from both sides of the conversations. If you don't have it, or have not been told the totality of the matter, you are not in a position to judge what happened, why and how it happened, and how it had a long term effect on one of the parties involved. If you don't have all the pieces to consider you are unaware of how it was an impediment to ANY interaction with Dutch Hunters in general and had to be rectified before forward progress could be made. Its a most unfortunate happening to all involved. The party you cheerlead for has stepped up to the plate and made a heartfelt apology to the affected parties. They are the only ones involved. That should be the end of discussion. Why do you want to continue to drag it through the mud. It will only hurt the one you wish to protect. Both sides have suffered enough. End it.

Your telling me that it's not my position to judge what happened because I don’t have “all the data from both sides,” (which is funny to me because I seem to recall PNG’s position on this being pretty one-sided) is misguided, because I am not judging either of the parties involved and have absolutely no interest in doing so. The problem here is the self-involvement of a third party who forced a judgment on, and the public humiliation of, one of the parties which is something I would go to great length to avoid doing so because there is absolutely no benefit in such petty actions, and such actions will always have some sort of repercussion. The goal here is, after all, to tell the story of Travis Tumlinson, not to belittle anyone in the process of doing that.

Your claim that this process was necessary in order to remove the “impediment to any interaction with Dutch Hunters in general,” strikes me as strange because PNG has never claimed himself to be a DH, and so such a maneuver would be unnecessary. And as far as this matter having to be “rectified before forward progress could be made.” you seem to be unaware that this “public apology” came pretty late in the game, after most of the information/discoveries about the Tumlinsons had already been posted, and so was redundant, and contributed nothing as far as furthering our understanding of the Tumlinson saga.

Hence my sentiment that this narrative project could have been handled a lot better from the start, as far as public relations, and still can be. There is always room for improvement, should that avenue be chosen.

 

[EarnieP]

got to get my hearing checked, i keep hearing this

https://youtu.be/c-c212c9qVg?t=3s

Ha! Good analogy. But I was thinking something like;

Water Off Duck's Back

-----------

Some things (information/point of view) seem impossible to 'soak in'.

 

[starman 1]

Greetings from the cast of our new production, Sesame Street: Legends of the Superstitions part 2. In this exciting movie you will see and hear your favorite characters explain the legends and history surrounding the Superstitions in language you can understand.

In our adventure pack story you will see Big Bird encounter an offspring of the mountain lion that ate Adolph Ruth and explain how his mother saw the events leading up to Mr. Ruth`s demise.

Also Cookie Monster will take you along side as we solve the mystery of the Stone Maps and open up the Lost Dutchman Mine.

We have quite the story to tell so be sure and have mommy and dad take you to the grand opening at your local Galaxy Theater.

For those of you who can read we will be selling a book in the lobby that will share with you the exciting story of an adventurer who escaped the clutches of Bonny & Clyde to explore and look for Gold in the foreboding Superstition Mountains, home of the Thunder Gods.


Old:

"I told you that as the project evolved and expanded it was obvious the scope had to change to make it into something saleable to an uninformed audience. That there wasn’t time or interest from the public for ALL the information collected to be FULLY explained and laid out. That the “piece” was for entertainment purposes and not a thesis for a doctorate. That the level of discovery that you seek would be discussed here rather than running off the target audience with the tedium and redundancy to screen play that level of discussion. I stand by those statements".


Old,

I am not sure this is what Jim Bark and Sims Ely along with a host of other folks had in mind but why not. I know my grandchildren would be amused by seeing Big Bird eaten by a mountain lion.


Starman

 

[sgtfda]

What exactly can you learn from the individuals posting here? How many have more than one name? How many have a nutball theory? How many have the story right? I'm sorry but the 10 or so posting here have zero information that is correct. Millions watch a show and ten on this site *****.

 

[starman 1]

Hello Sarge:

Are nutball theories ones that you disagree with? Perhaps you can help me here.

Originally Posted by sgtfda:

Had to go to the Apache Junction fruit market today so I decided to meet up with Tom K at the Blue Bird. By the way they have a set of the stones on display in the front window. Copies just like the museum. God everyone has them. Tom told me a acquaintance made the stones in the 30's and placed them in the FJ spot. I asked why there and he said the guy was working in the area. This person also worked as a tombstone engraver. Which explains a lot. I wanted to ask him about the Burns from Burns Ranch and the pitt mine. The stones came up after I noticed the window display. I will still keep a open mind as its fun to play with the issue.

Frank,

Tom told me this story some time ago. Not much chance he will ever divulge the name. I believe it to be true.


Take care,

Joe

Is Mr. Kollenburn a nutball? He obviously disagrees with your position on the Stone Maps as do many others. Mr. Ribaudo says the stone maps takes one to a completely different part of the range. A nutball?


I for one look forward to what you folks are doing but if you fail to engage such people as Mr. Kollenburn and explain why we should believe you more than him well this is Sesame Street.

Starman

 

[Azquester]

What I don't seem to get is why we're going to discuss all the details of the "Tumlinson Saga" on Tnet after the "Really Big Shoe" finally airs on TV when the main person with said details has left the building for all eternity? If we do discuss any details it's all going to be second hand info from him. I guess we'll have to wait each time we ask a question for it to be "Cleared" by the controller from the other forum?

I don't think we can all wear that many nose rings...it seems the pied piper is playing his flute ...

I just hope we're not being given wild geese. It seems with all the bad blood this person had towards everyone on this forum and the Stone Maps in general is this the way he gets even with us?
First he debunks the Maps as being "Faked" then he says "No, they're real, I swear!" by parading a possible but not probable family member on a video stumping for Travis and now we are expected to wait for his drip, drip of info?

There is no way in hell we can double check any of his claims as we're only getting is what he wants us to have.
I saw no "Credentials" being flashed on any of the video's. As far as we know they could all be Actors hired by the production company.

With his propensity for debunking and picking apart fictional themes along with mass deletions when his information is questioned on the other self moderated forum it seems he may have jumped in himself on the fictional story line wagon.

And it's true Millions did watch the Legends show. Millions of people who knew no better.

A Fake show using low paid Actors for the fictional story line. Great lead into a true story don't you think?

No Reality yet.

 

[Weaversneedle]

What exactly can you learn from the individuals posting here? How many have more than one name? How many have a nutball theory? How many have the story right? I'm sorry but the 10 or so posting here have zero information that is correct. Millions watch a show and ten on this site *****.

Frank, it would seem that some of the people here love the idea of a new TV show and some won't. I always look forward to anything on the superstition mountains.I was pretty jazzed up when I heard your show was coming up soon and when it aired I had mixed feelings about it, some parts I liked and some I didn't but overall it was interesting mainly because it was about the superstitiouns and i would watch it again .I might not like the show about the Tomlinsons but I am going to wait until I watch it before I condemn it. So I would say to the guys here that think the show is done poorly and will be terrible then don't watch it, simple as that but as for me I'll be watching

 

[EarnieP]

There was once a young lad from Arizona who decided he would like to try his hand at gardening.
Being new to the endeavor he did his best to learn all that he could on the subject. This led him to discover a marvelous site on the internet advertising ‘magic beans’. Now these beans were no secret and had been well known throughout the Arizona farming community for several decades. However, no two farmers could agree as to the correct way of reading the instructions written on those magic bean packages. They were, after all, rather vague and open to several different modes of interpretation.

But the young lad was clever and he soon noticed that related to the magic bean packages was an address listed for a far off mystical place called ‘Texas’. Now the lad was not the first clever person to notice the address, and a few farmers had even made inquiries back to that mystical land concerning the beans. But the young lad was not only clever, he was also very industrious (‘pro-active’, in the modern slang of that time). So after making several inquires of his own, he loaded up his enthusiasm and headed out to that far away mystical realm, ‘Texas’.

After some investigating, the young lad found what looked to be the very source of the magic bean packages. The home of the original manufacturer, and evidence possibly pointing to the very manufacturing site itself. It was well known that the original manufacturer had passed away many years before, but it turned out his close relatives were still in the area. Now the young farmer was not only clever, industrious, and enthusiastic, he was also a likable lad. It wasn’t long before he and the relatives of the original manufacturer soon became good friends. The ‘family’ quickly realized the young farmer was an honest soul, only interested in the truth concerning the magic beans, how they worked, and how to best read those vague package instructions. The family soon revealed to the young lad several, even older, original documents that had been lying dormant within an old family barn for decades. The instructions were now starting to take on a new look.

With the help and encouragement of the Texas family, the young man began to dig and plant some of those magic beans. The Texas soil proved to be so good, that soon the young farmer began to produce an amazing garden in a very short period of time. Being not only clever, industrious, enthusiastic, likable, but also sharing, the young farmer went online and posted much of his new found information for the benefit of all the farming community eagerly waiting back in Arizona (and other far flung localities).

That’s when the trouble started!
For although some farmers did have calloused hands from their own farming endeavors and did appreciate the new information, there were some ‘online farmers’, who had never actually turned a spade, had no working calluses on their hands (only on their backsides from sitting and stewing), and who appreciated nothing.
The amazing blooming of the young man’s garden seemed to infuriate some of those old calloused backsides. They soon stood outside the young farmer’s garden (on the net) and began throwing insults as to how the young farmer was digging, how his technique was all wrong they said. They insulted how he was interpreting the new instructions (the ones they hadn’t yet seen), how he included the family in the gardening, how he shared too much of his produce, how he didn’t share enough of HIS produce, how he was too young to be doing such work. They actually complained that he was unfit for such farming work because THEY had been at it longer. Those calloused backsides were enraged that such a young farmer could produce such an amazing garden when they themselves hadn’t produced a thing in all those long years of sitting on their callouses. They became so enraged with jealousy that they even started to insult the family of the very man who had originally manufactured the magic beans to begin with.

Well that was enough!
The young farmer put up a fence to keep the complainers out of the garden, and end the barrage of insults to himself and the family. But that didn’t stop the insults, now the calloused backsides complained because of that very fence, and how they could no longer directly hurl their complaints and insults. They searched the net looking for any shred of new information on the Texas garden to insult. They even started insulting third parties who might have the slightest involvement with the young farmer. They invented their own stories (information not in evidence) to further heap on more insults. They insulted the young farmer’s right to sell part of his own produce to help pay for the costs of his Texas farming trips and investigations, and to reimburse the family for their involvement (after all, it was their family’s magic beans to begin with!) They started insulting how the young farmer packaged his produce, and how he displayed his produce, BEFORE any packaging or displaying had actually occurred.

It has now been quite awhile since the young farmer has been heard from. There have been no new posting regarding the magic beans or any new information related to them. I like to think the garden is still doing fine, blooming and producing an amazing crop, thanks to the efforts of one young farmer, his friends, and the family.

(Now I realize that magic beans do have an effect on some people, they can produce quite a bit of gas.
Please proceed...but at least open a window before you begin.)

 

[markmar]

Nice fairy tale . They can make a cartoon movie from it . Also i didn't understand the precept .

 

[Carl995]

The reality is......people like the fake made up stuff!

 

[EarnieP]

Nice fairy tale . They can make a cartoon movie from it . Also i didn't understand the precept .

Well thank you markmar, this is certainly the site for fairy tales.

 

[sgtfda]

Hello Sarge:

Are nutball theories ones that you disagree with? Perhaps you can help me here.

Originally Posted by sgtfda:

Had to go to the Apache Junction fruit market today so I decided to meet up with Tom K at the Blue Bird. By the way they have a set of the stones on display in the front window. Copies just like the museum. God everyone has them. Tom told me a acquaintance made the stones in the 30's and placed them in the FJ spot. I asked why there and he said the guy was working in the area. This person also worked as a tombstone engraver. Which explains a lot. I wanted to ask him about the Burns from Burns Ranch and the pitt mine. The stones came up after I noticed the window display. I will still keep a open mind as its fun to play with the issue.

Frank,

Tom told me this story some time ago. Not much chance he will ever divulge the name. I believe it to be true.


Take care,

Joe

Is Mr. Kollenburn a nutball? He obviously disagrees with your position on the Stone Maps as do many others. Mr. Ribaudo says the stone maps takes one to a completely different part of the range. A nutball?


I for one look forward to what you folks are doing but if you fail to engage such people as Mr. Kollenburn and explain why we should believe you more than him well this is Sesame Street.

Starman

Tell us about OZ again Starman and the hidden library. Bill you can chime in with the Masonic shadow signs.