Whiskey Springs Maps

Cuz

In going over the video once again (might have been my 3rd time), I think there's some truth to what Wayne had stated. I believe if there's a group out there - watching over a particular area, it isn't out of the question as to if its believable. I don't feel that, what ever type of group it is, that they're organized. It does feel as if it's a 'generational' thing - a personal interest of a special area according to them (the group). I would though, lean towards a Native group of some type. I couldn't say which 'Native' group of people it could be, so that gets filed in the "who knows" filing cabinet.

I do understand in history - there's been many secret groups that we've all heard of, but do I feel that any of those said historical groups - being behind anything in the Supes; no I don't. I'm more inclined to believe that what ever group is out there, protecting something is more of a local native group to the area. I have heard stories that include strange people following others into the Supes, and also heard of some crazy sightings back in there (other stories from Wayne) - but to attribute those stories to a certain group that makes a point to scare someone or anyone that gets too close, just seems like a Tall Tale.

As for Wayne and the thought of Dutch hunters believing in the whole "spiritual or mystical", I don't think that's what he was saying. Yes, there are those Hunters that believe in all that mystical stuff - but most don't buy into it.

That being said - I've had personal experiences in my life - that can't be explained other than, going down the whole Spiritual rabbit hole. I don't put much into many of the conspiracies out there - but I do know, that some do come out as truth.

Wayne is an interesting kind of person. He claims he's a realist and at the same time - does give some credence to the strange stories - as if he entertains the idea that...maybe....just maybe there's truth in the story.
cuzimloony said:
To be honest....it is kind of unclear what he is saying in this video. He goes on to talk about production crew additions too. So to help clarify what he means, so that I can figure out what he's saying, I am utilizing a second video he made about the same subject.
Click to expand...

Cuz

When Wayne brings up the subject of Production crew - if you had watched his series on TV (their first season) - there was an episode that, went down the path of Black Legion. Wayne did bring up the subject to the production company - but when the writers got a hold of the idea, they really messed things up. Since filming a TV show or movie - nothing is ever filmed in order. Wayne brought up the fact, that once the production company took over the idea - it just went down hill from there. They did put a fake black hand print on a rock - to ignite the entertainment filter, so the episode would be more interesting. What is funny - on one of those episodes, they WERE followed and spotted a person (or so they thought) up on the ravine, watching them. They used a thermal camera and spotted the figure above them. What was weird is that - the figure wasn't HOT like it should have shown on the camera (body heat). The figure was white, which doesn't make sense. That part of the episode was real - its the whole black hand thing that was created by the production company for entertainment.

-SpartanOC
 

Back to Whisky Springs area..... Behind Miner's Needle there was the 3D head. Marcmar put forth his opinion that it is Aztec. It's a valid opinion I think. I haven't seen a better one yet. I personally don't think it looks very Aztec, especially from the side, but I do not have a better idea. I am going to go back and get actual compass measurements, but it appeared to be looking in the "Buzzard's Roost" direction, but again, I have to get coords. Or do I?? Would the people who made it have had compasses?
and what about that pointer rock that I stood next too? Is this kind of thing real or is it just stories? Would that be Spanish? Cowboys? Mother Nature? Honest questions. I can't see in the video what it was looking at, but I think I've got a spot close enough in GE marked. I'll have to go back and check that out too.

If Waltz had a mine, and he was able to get to it in a day or so from Adamsville...then it can't be deep in the Sups.... maybe Marcmar is right about the Miner's Needle area.......

Are any of those things worth spending any time on...........?
 

cuzimloony said:
Back to Whisky Springs area..... Behind Miner's Needle there was the 3D head. Marcmar put forth his opinion that it is Aztec. It's a valid opinion I think. I haven't seen a better one yet. I personally don't think it looks very Aztec, especially from the side, but I do not have a better idea. I am going to go back and get actual compass measurements, but it appeared to be looking in the "Buzzard's Roost" direction, but again, I have to get coords. Or do I?? Would the people who made it have had compasses?
and what about that pointer rock that I stood next too? Is this kind of thing real or is it just stories? Would that be Spanish? Cowboys? Mother Nature? Honest questions. I can't see in the video what it was looking at, but I think I've got a spot close enough in GE marked. I'll have to go back and check that out too.

If Waltz had a mine, and he was able to get to it in a day or so from Adamsville...then it can't be deep in the Sups.... maybe Marcmar is right about the Miner's Needle area.......

Are any of those things worth spending any time on...........?
Click to expand...

I don't think it would hurt to check out the '3D head' and get as much info on it as you can. Never know when that kind of info can be relevant one day....

In my opinion, its not Aztec, but I'm no historian to say either way. Its obviously a 'head' and I would think it has a meaning with the direction its looking at.

The whole pointer rock could have been done by all that you mentioned.

As for Waltz' Mine being in Miner's Needle; nope I don't believe that. That being said - there could very well be "something" there. A different Mine maybe?

-SpartanOC
 

cuzimloony said:
Back to Whisky Springs area..... Behind Miner's Needle there was the 3D head. Marcmar put forth his opinion that it is Aztec. It's a valid opinion I think. I haven't seen a better one yet. I personally don't think it looks very Aztec, especially from the side, but I do not have a better idea. I am going to go back and get actual compass measurements, but it appeared to be looking in the "Buzzard's Roost" direction, but again, I have to get coords. Or do I?? Would the people who made it have had compasses?
and what about that pointer rock that I stood next too? Is this kind of thing real or is it just stories? Would that be Spanish? Cowboys? Mother Nature? Honest questions. I can't see in the video what it was looking at, but I think I've got a spot close enough in GE marked. I'll have to go back and check that out too.

If Waltz had a mine, and he was able to get to it in a day or so from Adamsville...then it can't be deep in the Sups.... maybe Marcmar is right about the Miner's Needle area.......

Are any of those things worth spending any time on...........?
Click to expand...
When I was reffering to the Miner's Needle area, I was talking about Wagoner's mine, not Waltz's. These are two different mines. As I stated in the beginning of this thread describing Julia's map, I wrote the LDM is almost in the correct place from WN.
 

markmar said:
When I was reffering to the Miner's Needle area, I was talking about Wagoner's mine, not Waltz's. These are two different mines. As I stated in the beginning of this thread describing Julia's map, I wrote the LDM is almost in the correct place from WN.
Click to expand...

You are correct Markmar, when you say; "the LDM is almost in the correct place from WN.

-SpartanOC
 

markmar said:
When I was reffering to the Miner's Needle area, I was talking about Wagoner's mine, not Waltz's. These are two different mines. As I stated in the beginning of this thread describing Julia's map, I wrote the LDM is almost in the correct place from WN.
Click to expand...
I know..... sorry for the confusion everyone. I was just calling attention back to the Whiskey Springs AREA, which includes Waltz's route past Miner's Needle according to some. This thread went waaaaaaay off topic, my fault, and I was just bringing her home :)
There are more Wagoners videos to make and more trips to be had, so I was just hoping to turn it away from beheadings and back to anywhere along the route from Peralta TH to Trap Springs, which includes the Needle.
Mines were seen.
Caves were seen.
Hearts on pedestals were seen.
Entire 3D heads were seen.
Pointer rocks were seen.
Triangular cairns way off trail were seen.
Tarantulas were seen ;)
...much more that I haven't seen yet, was seen :)
..........................
Carry on :)
 

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I am happy to report, I made a smooth-brain, mid-whit rookie mistake the other day and went to the wrong graveyard :)
Adamsville graveyard is still there, albeit in very bad shape.
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SPARTANOC said:
Yes - thank you Jim, it was Black Legion', is what was meant.

There really isn't much on the topic - but Joe Ribaudo on a different forum DID explain their existence and apparently had seen 2 of them.

-SpartanOC
Click to expand...

Yes Joe passed away in 2020 - complications from chemical exposure to agent orange in Vietnam is what took him, or at least was involved. He was gruff, rude and condescending at times, but he knew his stuff and what he didn't know he admitted he didn't know it. I know there are some folks who couldn't care less that he's passed on, but he was responsible for starting the Dutchhunter Reunions and despite his sometimes overbearing personality, I think everyone who knew him in the community would agree that he caused everyone at one time or another to dig back into something they had forgotten about or discover something new while trying to find a way to counter whatever it was he was arguing.

As far as Joe's story about the Black Legion, this is it....

1734853818439.png
 

Cubfan64 said:
Yes Joe passed away in 2020 - complications from chemical exposure to agent orange in Vietnam is what took him, or at least was involved. He was gruff, rude and condescending at times, but he knew his stuff and what he didn't know he admitted he didn't know it. I know there are some folks who couldn't care less that he's passed on, but he was responsible for starting the Dutchhunter Reunions and despite his sometimes overbearing personality, I think everyone who knew him in the community would agree that he caused everyone at one time or another to dig back into something they had forgotten about or discover something new while trying to find a way to counter whatever it was he was arguing.

As far as Joe's story about the Black Legion, this is it....

View attachment 2184601
Click to expand...
I see cubfan, thank you for the story. I hadn't heart it before.
Interesting.
It's a bit different than I expected, in a better way, Id say.
Guys in pickup trucks is easier to wrap my brain around than Apache spirits. Im actually a bit relieved about that.
Have they ever done more than threaten and stare?
Hopefully it wasnt the name Joe that set them off..... (nervous giggle...)
Joe did keep going in the mountains after this right?
 

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