Weiser's Gravesite

[azdave35]

In german the word weiser means wise guy. As a name it is a nickname like Jacob wise guy.
The proper name was most probably spelled Weisser, or possibly Wiser.

greg is the only person i can think of that might have info on weiser

 

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[Matthew Roberts]

azdave,

I know you were involved with ore testing from the Silver Chief and knowing your background and assay skills Im sure the ore test was 100% accurate.

But the Silver Chief could not possibly have been Waltzs mine, or anyone else's for that matter other than James Rogers, George Flemming and Charles Enslinger.
And it has nothing whatsoever to do with the ore that came out of it.

 

[azdave35]

azdave,

I know you were involved with ore testing from the Silver Chief and knowing your background and assay skills Im sure the ore test was 100% accurate.

But the Silver Chief could not possibly have been Waltzs mine, or anyone else's for that matter other than James Rogers, George Flemming and Charles Enslinger.
And it has nothing whatsoever to do with the ore that came out of it.

just how did you come up with that?.....

 

[Matthew Roberts]

just how did you come up with that?.....

Dave,

The Silver Chief is one of the most documented mines from the pioneer era. The mine itself and its discovery is documented in mining records, claim papers, newspapers and mining journals.

In 1875 James Rogers and George Flemming were prospecting near Rogers spring when they discovered a silver ledge on top of the ridge to the west of the spring. Flemming went back to town and with his partner and attorney, Charles Enslinger, filed the discovery location of the Silver Chief and one extention to it as allowed by law. The claim paperwork clearly shows the filing was on an original location not a relocation of a previous working.

In the history of the Silver Chief in the Arizona mining journals the discovery is told in detail. There was no previous working or mine anywhere on that mile and a half long ridge. The Silver Chief claim caused a silver rush and in weeks the entire ledge on that ridge was claimed with some 50 claims.

Rogers and Flemming were the first people (1875) to successfully prospect and find something of value on that ridge.

 

[azdave35]

Dave,

The Silver Chief is one of the most documented mines from the pioneer era. The mine itself and its discovery is documented in mining records, claim papers, newspapers and mining journals.

In 1875 James Rogers and George Flemming were prospecting near Rogers spring when they discovered a silver ledge on top of the ridge to the west of the spring. Flemming went back to town and with his partner and attorney, Charles Enslinger, filed the discovery location of the Silver Chief and one extention to it as allowed by law. The claim paperwork clearly shows the filing was on an original location not a relocation of a previous working.

In the history of the Silver Chief in the Arizona mining journals the discovery is told in detail. There was no previous working or mine anywhere on that mile and a half long ridge. The Silver Chief claim caused a silver rush and in weeks the entire ledge on that ridge was claimed with some 50 claims.

Rogers and Flemming were the first people (1875) to successfully prospect and find something of value on that ridge.

and you think waltz was above claim jumping?...just because a mine is claimed doesn't mean people don't steal ore and high grade...i have had people steal ore from my claims before...maybe that's why waltz stopped going up there...he was afraid of getting caught and shot

 

[Idahodutch]

and you think waltz was above claim jumping?...just because a mine is claimed doesn't mean people don't steal ore and high grade...i have had people steal ore from my claims before...maybe that's why waltz stopped going up there...he was afraid of getting caught and shot

Dave,
If someone had found the LDM, but it was after the wilderness act, a question needs to be asked;
Would there be any reason/situation, to use some of the ore, to convince folk that Silver Chief, is/was LDM?

If there is absolutely no way for that to be associated with motive, then should be no reason not to pull all the curtains, all the way back.

Just saying.... sooner or later, others will too. The question needs to be asked.

 

[azdave35]

Dave,
If someone had found the LDM, but it was after the wilderness act, a question needs to be asked;
Would there be any reason/situation, to use some of the ore, to convince folk that Silver Chief, is/was LDM?

If there is absolutely no way for that to be associated with motive, then should be no reason not to pull all the curtains, all the way back.

Just saying.... sooner or later, others will too. The question needs to be asked.

no idea what your talking about dutch

 

[Idahodutch]

Dave,
Talking about ... Lots of variables of a lost mine legend.

 

[Matthew Roberts]

Dave,

There could be a hundred scenarios someone could come up with but the cold hard fact is the Silver Chief and most of the other 50 some mines surrounding it were worked continuously right up to the 20th century and Waltz died in 1891.

Could Waltz have somehow snuck past everyone, gotten down in the mine, dug out rich gold (in a silver mine) snuck back out with no one seeing him and gotten back to Phoenix unnoticed and nobody noticed anything amiss ?

You have to want the Silver Chief to be the LDM awfully bad to stretch it that far.

Its a free country and anyone can believe anything they want and I am fine with that. I just can't go along with the Pit mine story.

 

[azdave35]

dutch...the fdm was relocated using a manuscript from ted cox....he was an old time dutch hunter ...his father knew the dutchman.....ted was mouthy and some people didn't like him..so they never paid much attention to him...one man did and it paid off for him...this is the two room cave you have been talking about..it is in rogers canyon a little ways from the fdm...old bicknell was there and carved his name in the pillar....there is a pic of it in jesse feldmans book

 

[azdave35]

Dave,

There could be a hundred scenarios someone could come up with but the cold hard fact is the Silver Chief and most of the other 50 some mines surrounding it were worked continuously right up to the 20th century and Waltz died in 1891.

Could Waltz have somehow snuck past everyone, gotten down in the mine, dug out rich gold (in a silver mine) snuck back out with no one seeing him and gotten back to Phoenix unnoticed and nobody noticed anything amiss ?

You have to want the Silver Chief to be the LDM awfully bad to stretch it that far.

Its a free country and anyone can believe anything they want and I am fine with that. I just can't go along with the Pit mine story.

like you said matthew..its a free country and you can believe what you want..but every time someone brings up the fact that the ldm is the silver chief...you go awful far to try and convince people otherwise..not sure what your stake is in this but i have seen the ore.....thats enough for me...if you still want to search on peters mesa thats your prerogative...but most of us locals know its the silver chief

 

[Idahodutch]

Dave,
That is really an awesome find. In all honesty, it’s a great find.

So things must fit at least a little, with the clues from Bicknell’s artical, and also at least a little, with clues from Holmes Manuscript.

Because those clues, the legend attributes to the LDM.
There are clues for other supposed Waltz mines, also.

Doesn’t count, without facing scrutiny.

Reality is ... games can be played with ore, but clues will tell the story.
In this case the clues say LDM, is not silver chief.

If someone wants to say something is LDM, show the part that can’t be changed without everybody noticing. That means show this it matches clues.

I am about ready to scratch the trip, and reveal it all, because, I think something like that happened.

 

[azdave35]

Dave,
That is really an awesome find. In all honesty, it’s a great find.

So things must fit at least a little, with the clues from Bicknell’s artical, and also at least a little, with clues from Holmes Manuscript.

Because those clues, the legend attributes to the LDM.
There are clues for other supposed Waltz mines, also.

Doesn’t count, without facing scrutiny.

dutch...you seem to put alot of stock in bicknells article....the fact that he was in rogers canyon should speak volumes

 

[Matthew Roberts]

Dave,

I haven't found the mine and maybe never will. It sure won't be from lack of trying. I have my idea of where it might be but can't prove it so I keep on trying the best I can.

Matthew

 

[azdave35]

Dave,

I haven't found the mine and maybe never will. It sure won't be from lack of trying. I have my idea of where it might be but can't prove it so I keep on trying the best I can.

Matthew

right on matthew...brownie passed the torch to clay...clay passed the torch to you...do the best you can and then pass the torch to another

 

[Idahodutch]

Dave my reply is added portion of my last post.

the site is very provable.

 

[Idahodutch]

I’m going to sleep on it, because this affects all Dutch hunters.
Showing the search to the ravine, is one thing.
Showing the rest is another.

Idahodutch

 

[Barber..]

So,
Getting back to Weiser, if he existed,
Can anyone think of things that may indicate existence?

To know for sure you would have to spend hours upon hours searching census records, tax records, voting lists, land ownership records, immigraton records, passenger ship lists, ect.. It's actually a very daunting task..

 

[Idahodutch]

I’ve really thought about it, and the point was made.
Wasn’t trying to be dramatic, but the clues do tell the story.

So, we’re going in as planned.
Need to find out .... I am really excited to go

If good things are found, only getting legal samples.

 

[Idahodutch]

To know for sure you would have to spend hours upon hours searching census records, tax records, voting lists, land ownership records, immigraton records, passenger ship lists, ect.. It's actually a very daunting task..

Barber,
That sounds very true.
I was hoping for ideas about stuff at ravine, to indicate weiser existed.