WARD BASED HIS STORY ON ORIGINAL "THE BEALE PAPERS" PUBLISHED 1850

[releventchair]

Nah... JBR was ESH's grandfather. My R & I on JBR came from MANY places; he had a FAMILY CEMETERY at the NE or NW corner of HH; the Ward Family was ALSO buried there... haven't found it, yet. ECS owned Poplar Forest...? WOW!

If ECS still owns it ,maybe he' d let us detect it!

 

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[Rebel - KGC]

If ECS still owns it ,maybe he' d let us detect it!

Ya reckon...?

 

[releventchair]

Ya reckon...?

" Nevermore."

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Heh...

 

[ECS]

...
JBR was also an Uncle to an ESH for whom ESH of the Civil War was named for and the latter ECS owned Poplar Forest home of President Thomas Jefferson.

An example on how misinformation slowly gets accepted as fact.
So for the record, I have never owned Poplar Forest.
...but if you want to detect there, I will not stop you from doing so.

 

[ECS]

Rebel-KGC, with the last three posts above you tacitly agreed that the narrative test of the Beale story in the 1885 Beale Papers is not a true story, therefore being a work of fiction, written in the form of a novel.
What I find truly amazing and confusing at the same time is how with all wonderment one can present a totally unrelated alternative "real" story behind the story presented in the Beale Papers and still claim that the Beale story in the job pamphlet is true.
Either the Beale story is true as written or it is not.
Really a simple concept after all, isn't it.[/QUOTE

As written in 1885...? NOT true in MHO.

TY

 

[releventchair]

I dunno... Beale party winter quarters early March 1818.
Average high temp around 53 F , and lows just below freezing.
After about 90 days in winter camp ,some of the party is froggy and wants to go hunt and explore a few days. A month or more later they send a messenger to their caption.

A couple questions occur to me. First one is ,who was shot first for holding up the party for multiple weeks with no communication? ( They and their captain were Virginians after all.)
Secondly ,if a portion of the main party can hunt for weeks on end ,why was winter camp not already broken and the entire party on the move instead?
They were no longer needing rest.

 

[ECS]

Say what?
Colorado winters in the Rockies can be harsh with scarce chance of finding game.
The Beale Papers state that they were hunting buffalo, but never mentions if they ever got any...
especially after the gold discovery.

 

[releventchair]

Say what?
Colorado winters in the Rockies can be harsh with scarce chance of finding game.
The Beale Papers state that they were hunting buffalo, but never mentions if they ever got any...
especially after the gold discovery.

I provided average March temps ( first day of March ,with temps climbing each day after.)

To take it a step farther..following buffalo is what led to the gold discovery , with mention of buffalo being " securing many".
Some buff killers took only hides, others tongues and wasted the rest. However with breaking camp/ winter quarters approaching,securing meat for the party would be about the only reason for a captain of a disciplined party to allow splitting the party at such time.

However, refer to those temps and all the other game already procured , then the logistics of a single buffalo/ bison kill.
Large game means great enough muscle mass and large bones that in addition to a bisons superbly insulating hide means great heat retention.
Get the hide off bone the meat out and chill it that first night.
If for preserving ,get it back to camp and let the rest of the party jerk it. Or pack in salt , or whatever.
A bison averages around 12to 1400 pounds on the hoof.
Even if they targeted calves or young ones ,in addition to previous game secured . The mention of " securing many" in the Beale papers meant one heck of a load,and work.

Temps( feel free to find them in 1818 early March or more likely April as bison were killed just before gold discovery) ,if meat was cared for properly it might have allowed a week before getting funky. Another week beyond that if kept below forty degrees. But then trimming the dried outsides of it would be tedious . Piling it in a wagon at above forty for very long would not do good things to it...if they even took a wagon or wagons on their few day hunt.

Research might indicate if bison were in the area a couple hundred miles north of winter quarters during that time of year.
They do move with the seasons ,often forage related.

 

[franklin]

Where did you find the information that JBR was orginally buried on the plantation and then moved to the Presbyterian Cemetery. I thought he was originally buried at the Presbyterian Cemetery?

JBR was also an Uncle to an ESH for whom ESH of the Civil War was named for and the latter ESH owned Poplar Forest home of President Thomas Jefferson.

So I made a typo no big deal. A Edward Sixtus Hutter owned Poplar Forest. He was George Hutter's brother. And George was the father of Edward Sixtus Hutter the Civil War Major.

 

[Old Silver]

Say what?
Colorado winters in the Rockies can be harsh with scarce chance of finding game.
The Beale Papers state that they were hunting buffalo, but never mentions if they ever got any...
especially after the gold discovery.

Actually the Beale Papers say they got many.

Beale's 1822 letter:

"Early in March some of the party, to vary the monotony of their lives, determined upon a short excursion, for the purpose of hunting and examining the country around us. They expected to be only a few days absent, but days passed into weeks, and weeks into a month or more before we had any tidings of the party. We had become exceedingly uneasy, and were preparing to send out scouts to trace them, if possible, when two of the party arrived, and gave an explanation of their absence. It appears that when the left Santa Fe they pursued a northerly course for some days, being successful in finding an abundance of game, which they secured, and were on the eve of returning when they discovered on their left an immense herd of buffaloes, heading for a valley just perceptible in the distance. They determined to follow them, and secure as many as possible. Keeping well together, they followed their trail for two weeks or more, securing many and stampeding the rest."

 

[ECS]

That comes from the one of the alleged letters Beale sent to Morriss that is quoted by the "unknown author" in the completed manuscript he presented to Ward.
As with many of the items mentioned in the Beale Papers that can confirm the statements contained therein, as with items later writers who have latched onto the Beale story attribute to have seen, they all seem to have disappeared after the book is published.

 

[Old Silver]

That comes from the one of the alleged letters Beale sent to Morriss that is quoted by the "unknown author" in the completed manuscript he presented to Ward.
As with many of the items mentioned in the Beale Papers that can confirm the statements contained therein, as with items later writers who have latched onto the Beale story attribute to have seen, they all seem to have disappeared after the book is published.

Which begs the question, why did you bring it up?

 

[Rebel - KGC]

So I made a typo no big deal. A Edward Sixtus Hutter owned Poplar Forest. He was George Hutter's brother. And George was the father of Edward Sixtus Hutter the Civil War Major.

Eh...? "Brother", AND... "Father" to/of ESH...?

 

[ECS]

Which begs the question, why did you bring it up?

Just a part of the story presented by the "unknown author" that was included in the alleged letters from Beale that only he and Morriss ever saw.
...and, gone with the wind!

 

[franklin]

Let us continue to hunt for this alleged treasure?

 

[Old Silver]

Well, you did say, "The Beale Papers state that they were hunting buffalo..."

 

[ECS]

...as a part of the literary story, slowly drawing the reader and creating the background story building up to the discovery of the gold.
Once again it is from an alleged letter that the "unknown author" claimed Morriss had shown as continuation of his (author's) first person narrative in the manuscript presented to Ward.

 

[Old Silver]

...as a part of the literary story, slowly drawing the reader and creating the background story building up to the discovery of the gold.
Once again it is from an alleged letter that the "unknown author" claimed Morriss had shown as continuation of his (author's) first person narrative in the manuscript presented to Ward.

You seem to know a great deal about the story, but then you didn't know it said they secured many buffaloes. Maybe you haven't read it quite well enough yet. Just a thought.

 

[ECS]

...and once the gold was found, the great buffalo hunt was over.
This thread is about the Beale Papers as literature, and influences utilized in the creation of the Beale "STORY".
As a portion of the story that leads to the discovery of the gold, it is immaterial whether or not the had secured abundance game to them over for the long cold winter in the Rockies.
The hunt, as with securing supplies in Santa Fe provides the "western" coloration for that portion of the story in the letter, literary scenery, nothing less, nothing more.
...and not worth being drawn into an argument over.