WARD BASED HIS STORY ON ORIGINAL "THE BEALE PAPERS" PUBLISHED 1850

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treasure1822 said:
Oh come on you guys, are you so close to the trees that you can't see the forrest? Can't you see that the 1850 Beale is connected to the 1885 Beale, but only as a tool!
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As the basis of the Beale expedition story in the 1885 Beale pamphlet,then the gold,silver,and diamonds treasure hunt ciphers were added for "entertainment purposes".
 

ECS said:
As the basis of the Beale expedition story in the 1885 Beale pamphlet,then the gold,silver,and diamonds treasure hunt ciphers were added for "entertainment purposes".
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Is that theory, or do you have proof?
 

bigscoop said:
There is strong evidence of a dime novel, to be sure, anyone who refuses to believe this is just kidding himself. But the great thing about this story is nothing is for certain. True, there were many expeditions, both small and large, that took to the west in the period referenced, and they didn't just all originate from Virgina or Lynchburg, but several did. It's also a matter of record that men did pass through the region trying to recruit such adventurers for various expeditions. And when we look at the politics of the period and all the opportunist with their eyes on the west it's so very easy to plot a number of them into a possible solution, many of them even knowing each other. So the timing of the tale, the era in which it was said to have happened, this creates enough content and enough possible suspects to build endless theories. As for it only being market in the Lynchburg region....even this leaves room for scrutiny. Brilliant! Even if it was never intended to be.
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Still,there is NO hard evidence that the T J Beale expedition as related in the 1885 job pamphlet ever happened!
Yes,it was brillant that the author included real Bedford locals and locales in the story,to provide a credence to the tale.
 

No, that would be a rough estimate of the content of the vault....Lafitte was correct, he knew man. He knew that knowing who received the treasure was not important. What was important was not keeping it for himself. And he knew he couldn't take it with him....
 

ECS said:
Still,there is NO hard evidence that the T J Beale expedition as related in the 1885 job pamphlet ever happened!
Yes,it was brillant that the author included real Bedford locals and locales in the story,to provide a credence to the tale.
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Proof?
 

Old Silver said:
Is that theory, or do you have proof?
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We all have theories based on research-but proof?Can one prove that the novel "TREASURE ISLAND" by Robert Louis Stevenson was not based on an actual event?The same can be said concerning the 1885 Beale Papers.
 

ECS said:
We all have theories based on research-but proof?Can one prove that the novel "TREASURE ISLAND" by Robert Louis Stevenson was not based on an actual event?The same can be said concerning the 1885 Beale Papers.
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Can one prove that the novel "TREASURE ISLAND" by Robert Louis Stevenson was not based on an actual event? I can't, therefore I can't say that people who believe such are wrong. now let's remember this when posting about other people's beliefs on the Beale topic, okay?
 

Old Silver said:
Proof?
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Old Silver,you keep asking for PROOF.Do you,or can you show any evidence outside of the 1885 Beale Papers that proves that the events told in said pamphlet ever happen as stated therein,or if a treasure as listed therein actually ever existed?
 

ECS said:
Old Silver,you keep asking for PROOF.Do you,or can you show any evidence outside of the 1885 Beale Papers that proves that the events told in said pamphlet ever happen as stated therein,or if a treasure as listed therein actually ever existed?
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No, I can't. And that's why I must put it in the same category with your theories.
 

Come on! The answer is simple, you guys are making the question hard....Why haven't any of you ask the most important "W"! WHY! WHY ANYTHING! It is not about "WHO", or "WHAT", or "WHEN"....If you can answer the "WHY" the where is answered.
 

Old Silver said:
No, I can't. And that's why I must put it in the same category with your theories.
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My only "theory" or opinion is that it was printed as a western/treasure hunt dime novel.As for why Ward copyrighted and published the pamphlet in 1885,I do not know.
Once again,there is NO hard evidence that the events in said pamphlet ever happened as written in said pamphlet.
 

ECS said:
My only "theory" or opinion is that it was printed as a western/treasure hunt dime novel.As for why Ward copyrighted and published the pamphlet in 1885,I do not know.
Once again,there is NO hard evidence that the events in said pamphlet ever happened as written in said pamphlet.
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But you have no proof for your theory. I think if you require evidence from other people, then you should be required to produce proof yourself.
 

Ask yourself this question what is the same about the two stories and what is different? The likes mean nothing...the differences are important. Why are they different?
 

bigscoop said:
"In person, he was about six feet in height, with jet black eyes and hair of the same color, worn longer than was the style at that time. His form was symmetrical, and gave evidence of unusual strength and activity; but his distinguishing feature was a dark and swarthy complexion, as if much exposure to the sun and weather had thoroughly tanned and discolored him; this, however, did not detract from his appearance, and I thought him the handsomest man I had ever seen. Altogether, he was a model of manly beauty, favored by the ladies and envied by men....."

I could easily suggest to readers that this alone stands as very strong evidence of the French influence in the story, and yet most would never recognize the strong connexion/connection. Most would go back to Laffitte, perhaps, but that's not even close.
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LOL! "MANLY BEAUTY"...? Nah... THAT "part" was written by one of the Women writers of the "INNER CIRCLE" alluded to, by Robert MORRISS; the OTHER "part" about "ROBERT MORRISS" was written by ANOTHER woman... MORE later...
 

STOP LOOKING FOR PROOF! Look to the book of "Proverbs", Chapter 14 verse 15...."The simple man believes every word. The intellegent man gives thought to his steps." That is what Lafitte knew about man.....
 

ECS said:
My only "theory" or opinion is that it was printed as a western/treasure hunt dime novel.As for why Ward copyrighted and published the pamphlet in 1885,I do not know.
Once again,there is NO hard evidence that the events in said pamphlet ever happened as written in said pamphlet.
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ECS, THAT Beale Expedition was part of the "patch-work" BEALE PAPERS of 1885.
 

Reb, that was the words of a conceeded person.....The only way to guide future events is to place all the pieces yourself...Morriss was Lafitte.....
 

I think debates like those tonight are healthy for everyone. I think constructive criticism regarding any theory should be taken as such and appreciated, as once accepted as such it can actually serve a theory well.

There are some very strong theories out as to alternate possibilities but each of them also have their holes and convenient fillers. Mine does, they all do. This is why anyone who claims they know the entire score is really advertising that he doesn't. Some good theories, some very strong theories, but none can be proven to be fact, and that's the real score.
 

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